I’m Legally Obligated to Disclose This

[GDRRiley]

4 minutes ago, Roswell said:

 

==thread merged==
there is a main thread for this already

[atramentous]

4 hours ago, Middcore said:

"I'm not a sociopath or anything"

 

All-time out-of-context Linus quote

lel i thought that was weird too

[Roswell]

1 minute ago, GDRRiley said:

==thread merged==
there is a main thread for this already

There’s no main thread discussing the ethical implications of LMG doing this.

 

Please put this back.

[DaSteen]

Linus I really like the decision you made here, you really showed support to a wonderful movement which should be stimulated.

And whether or not it may be a morally something of being involved or not, I still would like to have a person being critical or not about a product and recommending it for the things it might be good at. And well call me naive, but I still do trust Linus his opinion about laptops as long as it is based on facts.

[divito]

People saying this is a conflict of interest I think are being way too broad in their definition of a "competitor."

 

The stuff that Alex, or Anthony might review in the notebook space doesn't truly occupy the same category as Framework, and Linus' editorial oversight doesn't change the product's category or intended audience compared to the far more mainstream products that get reviewed. 

 

All that being said, while Framework is a neat concept (which, really existed in business machines forever), I'm not sure I share the faith Linus has in it reaching a level sufficient enough to get him a return. While customization in some aspects has seen an increase, in the realm of functionality or hardware, it's trending the opposite.

[Egg-Roll]

"I don't shut up"
"I'd look like a complete asshat"

Oh Linus, you really should have... You make yourself look like an asshat at least 3 times a year in your videos... So why would I expect this to be any different?

 

Tbh I like the looks of the laptop it's slim decent specs and not exactly overpriced, plus the concept of it is something I can get behind, assuming the CPU can be upgraded (or further down the line models).

 

18 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

Spoken like someone who doesnt have a clue how retail business works. LTT Store margins are completely inline with retail counterparts. I suggest before you call something a rip off you make sure you know what your speaking of. Ive been dealing with various retail businesses for over 20 years, none of his numbers surprised me or seemed out of order, they are actually very middle of the road in their profit margins, most retailers that deal in clothing actually have higher margins than them, online or brick and morter.

Water bottles, mats and alike are one thing if quality matters and you take great care into it, but Tees? Those are rip offs... You can buy a box of 25 "insert brand name" for at most $5 a tee bulk for all sizes 2XL and under, want proof? https://www.wordans.ca/american-apparel-2001w-unisex-fine-jersey-short-sleeve-t-shirt-422529 They sell these for under $5 a piece (not the cheapest either) with the right quantity ordered that means at 30% profit margin with the highest sale price that company all costs in would have to be paying no more than $4.50 a shirt, clearly they are paying less else they wouldn't be selling them at $4.88 bulk, well doubt it anyways. Now to make the Tees assuming they are digital those machines are $20-70,000 with cartridges at about $300 ea x5 assuming each cartridge lasts 50 shirts that puts ink at $6 a shirt or $11 a shirt base costs, however that's still too high because each cartridge is 600 mil for the unit linked and I have my doubts the machine consumes 12ml of ink per shirt because my inkjet printer can't even do that unless it hoses the object in question (at which time it'll jam), so logically ink will cost more like 50 cents tops per shirt. So with the $7 assuming you buy the clothing and ink above, machine cost gets scrubbed over years of use, assuming the machine will last 5 years that puts the machine at about $5,000 + ink, so to make the machine a $1 per shirt LTT would need to push 5000 shirts a year per machine, assuming they did that, that puts each shirt to $8. Now $8 base cost (still likely too high) you throw in $2 per shirt for design (really high, Woot used to pay a $1 per as commission and they sold their Tees for $12 back in the day), $1 for support, production etc (one person can man multiple machines, so more machines lower labor costs), $1 for storage picking etc, you have a base price of $13 per shirt, LTT is selling them for $20USD, however all prices are in Canadian till now so LTT is selling them for $25. A little more than 30% don't you think?

 

Now I doubt you're going to read this line, obviously LTT is buying via 3rd party so they too have to make at least 30% profit plus expenses and I only gave one example of DIY setup which is 100% within the realm of them doing if they really wanted too, personally I hate digital prints and rather screening which is much more time/space consuming if more than one color is needed. All LTTs shirts I think are digital, the shirt might feel nice but the print? It's won't last years like screen will.

 

Oh FYI The people who sold Woot to Amazon sell screen printed shirts with low order numbers for $14 in the USA https://mediocritee.com/ (cheaper labor, but with the right layout labor is a tiny cost factor so maybe $2 more per shirt USD), then there are places like https://www.vistaprint.ca/ here where at 150 shirts you can get custom printing as low as $10.50 per shirt plus shipping...

 

Like I said things like mats and bottles (bottles are questionable too however) and alike those can take a lot of money to make, but tees bennies hats etc? Hell no... Linus is only seeing 30% from the store in profit likely at current prices because he either doesn't want to invest in his own infrastructure (clothing only) which costs him a lot of money in terms of potential profit and/or has gone with premium quality materials which cost an arm/leg (seems to be the case too) which is a good thing but equally brings on skepticism at the same time.

 

Also because LMG isn't a public company the LTT store could be making 50% profit, in which case Linus is lying to us because F Off it's none of your business! (as he mentioned in one of his past how we make money videos). True numbers of costs per unit are out there, the unknowns are the cost to production, those long term costs are what are eating into their profit margins, and going threw 3rd party for some things...

[Forbidden Wafer]

Noice.

[schmism]

People have been bugging him (Linus) for years to become a system integrator. He has repeatably said he does not want to be in the hardware business as its extremely low margin and fraught with pitfalls of all the difficulties of doing hardware in today's world. (purchasing, ordering, customer support, shipping etc)

This is the perfect opportunity for him to have a stake in the hardware market, to use his influence and businessmen contacts to continue to drive innovation and development in the notebook/laptop space.

As for conflict of interest, meh... As others have pointed out this is not a device that is for everyone and I don't think the use case for this device is a replacement for all laptop like devices that currently exist. Its not likely going to be the lightest/smallest device, or the best productivity/gameing device but will fit nicely in the middle ground. So there is no reason he cant continue to review other units that wouldn't be directly competing with this product.

Sure some will argue with the above, Id like for you to consider while the $800 walmart desktop PC exists, its not directly competing against a $1500 Origin or $3000 Cyberpower despite the fact they are all desktop tower PC's.

To you Linus (LTT) I look forward to you flexing some of that deep tech background and bring some addtional hardware options forward quickly. I would love to order a Framework however as others pointed out, the lack of a wired Ethernet jack is a non-starter. In addition your own videos have demonstrated how current Ryzen chips are eating intell's lunch in the mobile world so why would I even consider an Intell notebook product at this current time.
Another point that should not go unnoticed for long, parts. Its great that the laptop is so easy to work on, but I noted a distinct lack of ability to order replacement parts on the website. How DO i order a replacement screen and battery up front before this thing goes tits up. So that in 2 years with no support just about the time i want to do upgrades and replacements I can actually dig in to my stash of parts and still have a working device.

[Jtalk4456]

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

framework isn't going to be a mainstream laptop but it can takeover places like business, as an IT person if I had to keep more than 100 laptops up I'd be using them. Accounting doesn't need 32gb of ram and a 1tb SSD but Dev team needs 64gb of ram and 2tb of space for testing VM. it means I can keep common parts like ram, SSD, motherboards, screens and keyboards/trackpads and batteries in stock. instead of needing 10-15% more machines as loaners and spares as machines get sent out for repairs.
have a board die, I can swap everything over in an hour or 2 and have it back to you.

I didn't even consider the business repair aspect. Yeah that has the potential to make a gigantic difference!

2 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

And even if it does work, Framework hasn't done anything that's patentable.  So HP/Dell are getting free market research from them and can go implement it themselves.

Neither is HP making a prebuilt pc. Patents are nice, but brand name can easily make up the difference. Framework has a nice unique name that they can use with their philosophy to really make a lot of buzz. Their brand catches on as the first truly modular laptop. HP will just be copying the leader.

[poochyena]

2 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Also LOL at how much of a ripoff LTT store is.  White label shit like that from China at 60% Gross Margin?!  Holy moly. 

Go walk into walmart, or literally any store and pick up any item that isn't food. That item has at least a 50% gross margin. 50% is the industry baseline. 60% isn't unusual.

 

1 hour ago, Roswell said:

You have a significant motive to say negative things about other manufacturers in hopes that it may drive traffic to the company that you stand to make millions off of.

Yea, thats been true for years. Linus has been paid by laptop manufactures for many years now. That isn't new. He's always had financial motivation to say good things about companies that pay him and bad things about companies that don't.

[dogwitch]

28 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Go walk into walmart, or literally any store and pick up any item that isn't food. That item has at least a 50% gross margin. 50% is the industry baseline. 60% isn't unusual.

 

Yea, thats been true for years. Linus has been paid by laptop manufactures for many years now. That isn't new. He's always had financial motivation to say good things about companies that pay him and bad things about companies that don't.

got legal proof on that. you could use or is that just a option.... of yours

 

[Uttamattamakin]

As a major public investor in a company here are some words you need to remember. 

I do not recall. 
I Plead the 5th (or its Canadian equivalent). 

Can I refresh my memory by reviewing my records?  I do not recall. 

 

  

 

[poochyena]

50 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

got legal proof on that. you could use or is that just a option.... of yours

 

I run a business, you can't get into the whole sale market unless you can give at least a 50% gross margin. Only exceptions are usually very high demand products.

[dogwitch]

19 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I run a business, you can't get into the whole sale market unless you can give at least a 50% gross margin. Only exceptions are usually very high demand products.

Linus has been paid by laptop manufactures for many years now. That isn't new. He's always had financial motivation to say good things about companies that pay him and bad things about companies that don't.

 

 

this part i was talking about.

[AldiPrayogi]

Very cool product and I hope they stay true to their words.

[YoungBlade]

4 hours ago, dogwitch said:

Linus has been paid by laptop manufactures for many years now. That isn't new. He's always had financial motivation to say good things about companies that pay him and bad things about companies that don't.

 

 

this part i was talking about.

Here's a sponsored laptop video, paid for by MSI:

 

This is not a secret. LTT has gotten money from laptop makers across dozens of videos for years.

[tikker]

8 hours ago, Roswell said:

Also, while I'm at it... Intentionally spending only 15 seconds out of a 15 minute video to actually disclose your financial involvement in this company is questionable.

What more is there to disclose other than saying "I invested $XXX into <company> and now have some sway/can offer help"? Don't already turn this announcement video immediately into product placement. I'm confident he would've done the same if this was with Corsair, Asus or another company. If he'd just spent 15 seconds "hey I'm an investor now" I guarantee this forums, Twitter etc. would have all raised the points he addressed.

  

6 hours ago, poochyena said:

Yea, thats been true for years. Linus has been paid by laptop manufactures for many years now. That isn't new. He's always had financial motivation to say good things about companies that pay him and bad things about companies that don't.

For sponsored spots or ads, sure, but I do believe him when he says he wouldn't say good things if he didn't mean them. Also not to forget: LMG is a business that needs and wants to make money to survive. They'll always have financial motivation do do things.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

Why so much hate here? Linus did a proper disclosure - so that we, as viewers, could decide whether or not that makes LTTs further reviews of laptops untrustworthy.

[dogwitch]

2 hours ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

Why so much hate here? Linus did a proper disclosure - so that we, as viewers, could decide whether or not that makes LTTs further reviews of laptops untrustworthy.

some people simple have to hate something...

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

18 hours ago, Roswell said:

So Linus just disclosed that he invested $225,000.00 in Framework. He then goes on to say if all goes well, you can sell these private shares once they go public "for way more than you paid" (He's talking millions upon millions if they blow up).

 

He then goes on to discuss whether or not he will recuse himself from journalistic laptop content, since there are obvious ethical conflict of interest issues.

 

One would assume that he would follow that up with an obvious "In light of this, LMG will cease reviewing notebooks since I have a significant financial interest in a competitor succeeding". But no, instead he says...:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, no. You need to butt out. You absolutely cannot be trusted any longer for unbiased laptop content. You have a significant motive to say negative things about other manufacturers in hopes that it may drive traffic to the company that you stand to make millions off of. Even if you honestly believe you can remain unbiased and ethical, it doesn't matter. We have no way to verify your claims and you have a responsibility just like every other outlet to avoid ethics violations. 

 

 

 

 

Please take your own advice...

 

 

 

 

No, it isn't! It's not just you that needs to remove yourself from editorial laptop content, it's your entire company. You own LMG, you being on camera is NOT the issue here. Your company cannot in good faith create journalistic laptop content when you, THE OWNER, stand to make millions off of a competitor.

 

 

Linus, you love to rail on every company under the sun not being pro consumer, screwing the little guy, etc etc. Don't be an absolute hypocrite and put your money where your mouth is. Be pro consumer and keep yourself ethical. Otherwise all of your other thoughts and statements on other companies doing wrong mean absolutely nothing.

 

Also, while I'm at it... Intentionally spending only 15 seconds out of a 15 minute video to actually disclose your financial involvement in this company is questionable.

 

 

I'm also pretty disappointed by his lack of commitment to recuse. Although, I would be more comfortable than you, if he allowed his team full control and autonomy over laptop reviews and sponsored content going forward. Also, I wouldn't have a huge problem with him appearing on camera to say only positive things about another laptop design that excites him. But I would never want to here another negative thing about another laptop from his pen nor his mouth again. Leave that for his staff to do.

17 hours ago, poochyena said:

Yea, thats been true for years. Linus has been paid by laptop manufactures for many years now. That isn't new. He's always had financial motivation to say good things about companies that pay him and bad things about companies that don't.

This is very obviously on another level. Pretending otherwise is naive.

[crazzp]

8 hours ago, dogwitch said:

Linus has been paid by laptop manufactures for many years now. That isn't new. He's always had financial motivation to say good things about companies that pay him and bad things about companies that don't.

 

 

this part i was talking about.

Linus say a lot of bad things about Macbook previously and alot of good things of the M1 Macbook. So Apple didn't pay him last time and finally find his beard so charismatic to pay him this time round? 

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, dogwitch said:

some people simple have to hate something...

I have no issue with LTT continuing laptop reviews so long Linus's name (therefore his interaction with the video is 100% removed, this means the whole process shown in how they make videos gets thrown out the window for laptop reviews that includes Linus) is never in the list of credits ever again. Good or Bad review it's simply not a good idea for him to be involved, bad reviews are obvious, good ones could be "if I give a bad review I'm going to get hate and potential trouble, good review it is". Anything short of that (as long as it's Linus and not LTT who is the investor) LTTs integrity as a brand will be destroyed.

 

It's equal to not disclosing you own a dealership and you review cars that are not sold there. If Linus gets involved with any laptop reviews I expect a disclosure because those random clicks looking for laptop reviews WONT see this video, they'll only see the review video. Also if LTT does a bad review they can now get into legal trouble with said company if Linus gets involved in any way (or if the Frameworks laptop shows up in said review). It's a thin layer of ice Linus is trying to cross and I don't think he's competent enough to not break it... Look at the whole "disclosure of single/dual sided ram chips in laptops" If he can't keep true to simple words spoken in the past how can we trust now?

 

Equally Linus can't ever be in a sponsored laptop video as it goes against his own personal interests, it's equal to HP handing money and a laptop to Dell for a review...

[CerealExperimentsLain]

13 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Also LOL at how much of a ripoff LTT store is.  White label shit like that from China at 60% Gross Margin?!  Holy moly.  That's Intel's gross margins and they're making high tech.  If it wasn't a rip off it'd probably be more like single digit net margin %'s.  It was kinda already obvious everything there was overpriced but now its confirmed.

Did you only realize now that most branded clothing and product merch has fairly high margins?

[Rex Hite]

The guy at Gamer's Nexus does a lot of case reviews but he has broached the idea of creating a GN branded case.

 

I think these kinds of things are a good way to generate views and engagement for the influencer's brand no matter how they choose to proceed.

The execrable Unbox Therapy "made" a phone case.

They want in.

 

[Blademaster91]

10 hours ago, dogwitch said:

Linus has been paid by laptop manufactures for many years now. That isn't new. He's always had financial motivation to say good things about companies that pay him and bad things about companies that don't.

 

 

this part i was talking about.

I agree that its been really obvious he's been paid by manufacturers to say good things about them for years now, and not just with laptops, not sure why that is a surprise to people.

And personally I haven't trusted LTT as a serious review source because of Linus doing paid sponsor spots as theres potentially too much bias with companies that pay for a good review.  If the rest of the staff did laptop reviews, then maybe but at least disclose in the video title if the video is more of an ad than a review.

But I find it interesting people are more upset about this than LTT not putting "(sponsored by X company)" or "Showcase" in their video titles.