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I’m Legally Obligated to Disclose This

"I'm not a sociopath or anything"

 

All-time out-of-context Linus quote

Friends don't let friends use Userbenchmark. Ban the term "bottleneck." Corps aren't your friends. If the PC does what you need it to do well enough, it's good enough. Don't build the "best" system, build the system that makes you happy. 

 

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I'm so glad he did it. I thought the argument against it was stupid. He already has financial incentive to promote any other laptopn company that sends him free stuff or pays for sponsorships, so investing in a company is no different morally.

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Title made it sound like something was majorly wrong with it..

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“iFixit…Oh wow, what an appropriate sponsor.” Scripted segue or not, that was gold.

Best comment on the video. I kind of wanted JayzTwoCents to show up, after a brief explosion. I think he would also love this kind of laptop too.

The only stars that matter, are the ones you look at when you dream... ~ Keanu Reeves

Am I still to create the perfect system?! ~ Clu

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Just now, GeorgeMKane said:

Best comment on the video.

yep I just liked it.

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To be fair here.

The framework laptop is a very nice concept.

BUT, I honestly hate that the modules weren't 1cm wider as to ensure that they could have 2 USB type A ports on them.

Secondly, the base machine should have had a type C port on each side so that we don't have to waste a module on something that we Must have for the thing to even work in practice.

 

Minor gripes I have with it is the lack of a Scandinavian keyboard layout, but they do promise a clean ISO one in the future (and I own a laser cutter and can engrave my own prints), so this is only a minor gripe.

 

Other than this, it is a nice laptop, but I won't be buying one myself at current. Mainly since it isn't really selling in Europe yet. (And frankly, I likely won't be buying one until RJ45 networking and a DB9 serial port is available expansions. I work in industry, so serial ports are literally common as mud.)

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1 minute ago, Nystemy said:

(I likely won't be buying one until RJ45 networking and a DB9 serial port is available expansions. I work in industry, so serial ports are literally common as mud.)

I just saw this on their page too, scrolling through the pictures...

I mean to be fair, there are usb to ethernet adapter's that you can get for cheap as an alternative. Everyone's situation is going to be different, but not many people I know use ethernet except for maybe big downloads, like AAA title games, and this isn't exactly a gaming laptop.

The only stars that matter, are the ones you look at when you dream... ~ Keanu Reeves

Am I still to create the perfect system?! ~ Clu

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1 minute ago, GeorgeMKane said:

I just saw this on their page too, scrolling through the pictures...

I mean to be fair, there are usb to ethernet adapter's that you can get for cheap as an alternative. Everyone's situation is going to be different, but not many people I know use ethernet except for maybe big downloads, like AAA title games, and this isn't exactly a gaming laptop.

I work in industry, connecting with Ethernet to various production equipment is fairly common. Dragging around USB to Ethernet dongles is not all that practical in a lot of cases. A dedicated Ethernet port is generally preferred. It isn't really about file sizes or transfer rate, most industrial equipment uses 100 Mb/s Ethernet or slower, the wire is more for the fact that WiFi is fairly "abhorrent" to deal with in an industrial environment.

In short, I have a somewhat niche application, but a modular laptop is also something that could relatively trivially scale to various niche applications. Since stocking various expansion modules is way easier than stocking various laptop skews.

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7 minutes ago, Nystemy said:

I likely won't be buying one until RJ45 networking and a DB9 serial port is available expansions. I work in industry, so serial ports are literally common as mud.)

Yeah thats why I am waiting too.

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28 minutes ago, Nystemy said:

I work in industry, connecting with Ethernet to various production equipment is fairly common. Dragging around USB to Ethernet dongles is not all that practical in a lot of cases. A dedicated Ethernet port is generally preferred. It isn't really about file sizes or transfer rate, most industrial equipment uses 100 Mb/s Ethernet or slower, the wire is more for the fact that WiFi is fairly "abhorrent" to deal with in an industrial environment.

In short, I have a somewhat niche application, but a modular laptop is also something that could relatively trivially scale to various niche applications. Since stocking various expansion modules is way easier than stocking various laptop skews.

I used to work in the industry for a while, but don't atm. You're right that Ethernet is fairly common. Having Ethernet in the office, whether it be at home or at your work, is very crucial. I did get to a point in the video where Linus talks about new products. However I, and hopefully yourself, as well, would like to see them improve on this idea before anything else. Maybe a Framework 2 (or Framework A) laptop that goes with AMD Ryzen instead, and includes more customization options, especially Ethernet. I can see it being much cheaper too, as I usually see AMD laptops cheaper than Intel laptops (or at least the price for what you get is better with AMD, maybe meaning more RAM, storage, or upgradeability).

 

I know they're trying to make it as thin and sturdy as they can... However, even when I was using the only laptop I still have purchased to date (bought it in 2009), I used the Ethernet port often. (It wasn't even a gaming laptop either... I think it was being sold as an entertainment laptop or something, mainly for college students).

 

The only reason I said most people I know don't use Ethernet, is because I know manufacturers don't like to include it in modern laptop lineups. I would 100% agree with you, if you said they absolutely should though. I know I'm looking to get my first laptop in so many years, and I'm looking for ethernet ports as they're just a nice to have. I can see certain people's situations where they don't need it, but it's a nice to have, just like the HDMI port. Not everyone is going to connect to an external monitor, but it's a nice to have in case you want to, and is very practical, especially for multitasking.

Edited by GeorgeMKane

The only stars that matter, are the ones you look at when you dream... ~ Keanu Reeves

Am I still to create the perfect system?! ~ Clu

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Congratulations on your investment in a ONE TRICK PONY. Did you seriously think this through???

 

I guess LTT viewers can kiss goodbye to proper, honest, in-depth and unbiased laptop reviews now. Yeah, you'll have plenty other content to do, but for a tech channel to ignore laptops is like your favorite burger joint forgetting the fries. It's just inexcusable.

 

I wrote here about my rant when you covered this laptop earlier. I don't want to rehash all of that a second time, but whatever intuition you are "tuned into" or investment advice you are receiving I would be extremely hesitant to take. Companies like Dell and HP have been around for decades and hold millions (if not billions) in $$$ to throw at things like R&D, manufacturing and marketing. More on point is that these laptop manufacturers already have these on hand and aren't working as startups. Even Apple was long on the scene before it's cash cow iPhone came. There is simply no way as a startup you will be on the same playing field as these multinationals, and certainly not when the only thing you can put on the table is a SINGLE PRODUCT.

 

I worked extensively in online media as a laptop reviewer for 7 solid years, and continue to this day to follow the trends keeping an eye on what's happening. For a fraction of the money you just put down you could have hired an experienced writer with the background, passion and technical knowledge to not only cut through the BS, but take your laptop reviews way above what your competition is doing. And no, I am not trying to "sell myself" here, that's based on my solid opinion on products I have looked at in the past, products that were mocked by the tech press, yet were considered game changing by the users who actually understood what they were and how they worked.

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7 minutes ago, Luscious said:

I guess LTT viewers can kiss goodbye to proper, honest, in-depth and unbiased laptop reviews now. Yeah, you'll have plenty other content to do, but for a tech channel to ignore laptops is like your favorite burger joint forgetting the fries. It's just inexcusable.

I think he should leave future laptop review videos in his team's hands, and not go near it again (these videos could be on one of the separate channels too, to kind of separate it even further from Linus, in a sense). The only time I would expect to see him back to reviewing laptops is if Framework decides they're done and closes their business. I doubt that's going to happen though, because they have a solid product. I would like to see them do more with it though. They need to make an alternative Framework laptop that focuses on AMD Ryzen, and more customization.

Quote

There is simply no way as a startup you will be on the same playing field as these multinationals, and certainly not when the only thing you can put on the table is a SINGLE PRODUCT.

It's mentioned that they are working on more products. They likely didn't want to release 3 products at once, and have one of them being a failure. It's actually kind of smart.

Edited by GeorgeMKane

The only stars that matter, are the ones you look at when you dream... ~ Keanu Reeves

Am I still to create the perfect system?! ~ Clu

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Most of the laptop reviews have been other staff members so that's not really an issue. Even if Linus doesn't host any of the main laptop reviews anymore there is still no reason why he can't put in his on thoughts still on the side. It shouldn't stop him from making good points or valid criticism. 

 

Also wasn't it mentioned in the earlier video that 3rd parties will be able to create their own expansion cards?

 

Still very excited to see how far Framework can go. Just like the open source cpu RISC-V stuff.

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1 hour ago, Luscious said:

I guess LTT viewers can kiss goodbye to proper, honest, in-depth and unbiased laptop reviews now. Yeah, you'll have plenty other content to do, but for a tech channel to ignore laptops is like your favorite burger joint forgetting the fries. It's just inexcusable.

How is this inexcusable? Firstly he explains his position on laptop reviews disappearing (i.e. unclear atm). Secondly, a tech channel can cover or not cover whatever they want. Is it then also inexcusable that LTT no longer reviews cases, Gamer's Nexus pays hardly any attention to laptops, Jay does random stuff? The list goes on. Disagreeing with their decisions about the directino of business is fair, but calling it inexcusable is a bit of a stretch.

1 hour ago, Luscious said:

I wrote here about my rant when you covered this laptop earlier. I don't want to rehash all of that a second time, but whatever intuition you are "tuned into" or investment advice you are receiving I would be extremely hesitant to take. Companies like Dell and HP have been around for decades and hold millions (if not billions) in $$$ to throw at things like R&D, manufacturing and marketing. More on point is that these laptop manufacturers already have these on hand and aren't working as startups. Even Apple was long on the scene before it's cash cow iPhone came. There is simply no way as a startup you will be on the same playing field as these multinationals, and certainly not when the only thing you can put on the table is a SINGLE PRODUCT.

Well good thing this video is not about giving the viewer investment advice then. You like stable, boring investments in tech giants; Linus wants to take this risk in supporting Framework. Both valid strategies. The latter ties in to your second point: investing in them to help them get a foothold. How will new companies ever start out or survive if everyone would think oh the big three are so big already let's not bother.

 

And let's be honest. Most companies really only put out one or a handful or products (and a lineup should be considered one product in my book). Phones haven't changed substantially for years now. They just get an extra lens and cost $100 more each year and the distinction storage, soc and camera. Macbooks, Dell's XPS etc. are all the same thing with just a different amount of RAM or a different CPU. Are those truly different products?

 

If one would blame Framework for only offering "one product", then you should also blame Apple, Dell etc. for the same thing. Apple offers 3 laptops: Air, Pro 13" and Pro 16", which have a whopping 2, 4 and 2 configurations. Wow such choice. Do the 13" and 16" even count as two different products? They're both the Macbook Pro.

 

On-topic: While I think it's admirable of him to take this stance, I would have no problem trusting future laptop reviews from either LTT. Not even ones from the man himself. If they think it's best to leave that content on the shelf for a while, I would understand that however.

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you can't fully expect any "review" or cover of a product that is in some way "paid" for.

So if someone sends them free stuff/prototypes or have a stake in the company, it doesn't change than might have a bit more bias towards the product, so not that much different than covering other free stuff but do wish they could cover this a bit earlier unless it's quite recent this was done.

 

As for ports, varying issues and focus. From the locking mechanic, seals, easy of use, size, build quality etc.

As with the current design, needing the gaps for the frame and structural support? could make it less of an issue with less modular modules or different laptop structure to differences in the modules as well. Also if the modules are going to add or be a part of the structural support?

 

but I do wonder if they will try an lenovo style laptop, a bit like the older chunky more modular ones with extra performance, and handling "modular" cooling?

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Good luck with that.  I look around at the people who can't even be bothered to replace their cracked screen protector and know for certain no one is going to be swapping modules or taking apart their laptop at a significant scale.  That's also assuming you find someone who wants a no-name brand laptop for $1000. 

 

And even if it does work, Framework hasn't done anything that's patentable.  So HP/Dell are getting free market research from them and can go implement it themselves.

 

Also LOL at how much of a ripoff LTT store is.  White label shit like that from China at 60% Gross Margin?!  Holy moly.  That's Intel's gross margins and they're making high tech.  If it wasn't a rip off it'd probably be more like single digit net margin %'s.  It was kinda already obvious everything there was overpriced but now its confirmed.

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11 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

 

 

Also LOL at how much of a ripoff LTT store is.  White label shit like that from China at 60% Gross Margin?!  Holy moly.  That's Intel's gross margins and they're making high tech.  If it wasn't a rip off it'd probably be more like single digit net margin %'s.  It was kinda already obvious everything there was overpriced but now its confirmed.

Spoken like someone who doesnt have a clue how retail business works. LTT Store margins are completely inline with retail counterparts. I suggest before you call something a rip off you make sure you know what your speaking of. Ive been dealing with various retail businesses for over 20 years, none of his numbers surprised me or seemed out of order, they are actually very middle of the road in their profit margins, most retailers that deal in clothing actually have higher margins than them, online or brick and morter.

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I've followed linus on and off for the past year and a half. This is probably the biggest move he's made in his entire company's history. Not only did he pour a quarter million dollars into the investment of the company spearheading the effort to making their own computers fully modular, he took a big shift into the role of his own company by having no say in the editorial process of LTT's videos.

 

A part of me wonders if linus has done his duty as a tech reviewer and now has the influencer authority to lead the right to repair fight. He once asked if he was ready to retire. Maybe he can retire from reviewing tech and shift his life to making big companies allow right to repair laws or something like that.

 

Either way, we are in the war between the people saying we want to upgrade our own stuff vs the big tech companies saying they deserve to have their products not last as long so they get more money (contributing to ewaste). And one of our leaders has officially become Linus Sebastian.

 

Linus, You have my full support.

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Any way you look at it, it's a worthier investment than GameStop.

Friends don't let friends use Userbenchmark. Ban the term "bottleneck." Corps aren't your friends. If the PC does what you need it to do well enough, it's good enough. Don't build the "best" system, build the system that makes you happy. 

 

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16 minutes ago, BachChain said:

A small investment of a quarter-million dollars

in 1,000$+ laptop land yeah its small

 

Just now, trombonejb said:

I've followed linus on and off for the past year and a half. This is probably the biggest move he's made in his entire company's history. Not only did he pour a quarter million dollars into the investment of the company spearheading the effort to making their own computers fully modular, he took a big shift into the role of his own company by having no say in the editorial process of LTT's videos.

in LAPTOP videos only and even then he said he may still cover stuff he thinks is cool

44 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Good luck with that.  I look around at the people who can't even be bothered to replace their cracked screen protector and know for certain no one is going to be swapping modules or taking apart their laptop at a significant scale.  That's also assuming you find someone who wants a no-name brand laptop for $1000. 

system76 still seems to be around
framework isn't going to be a mainstream laptop but it can takeover places like business, as an IT person if I had to keep more than 100 laptops up I'd be using them. Accounting doesn't need 32gb of ram and a 1tb SSD but Dev team needs 64gb of ram and 2tb of space for testing VM. it means I can keep common parts like ram, SSD, motherboards, screens and keyboards/trackpads and batteries in stock. instead of needing 10-15% more machines as loaners and spares as machines get sent out for repairs.
have a board die, I can swap everything over in an hour or 2 and have it back to you.

44 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

And even if it does work, Framework hasn't done anything that's patentable.  So HP/Dell are getting free market research from them and can go implement it themselves.

sure HP or anyone else could but they won't, at least for a while

44 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Also LOL at how much of a ripoff LTT store is.  White label shit like that from China at 60% Gross Margin?!  Holy moly.  That's Intel's gross margins and they're making high tech.  If it wasn't a rip off it'd probably be more like single digit net margin %'s.  It was kinda already obvious everything there was overpriced but now its confirmed.

unless you were drop shipping it from a house you'd be happy to making 25-35% at the end after other costs.
you do realize he said LTT store makes ~30% profit on stuff

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So Linus just disclosed that he invested $225,000.00 in Framework. He then goes on to say if all goes well, you can sell these private shares once they go public "for way more than you paid" (He's talking millions upon millions if they blow up).

 

He then goes on to discuss whether or not he will recuse himself from journalistic laptop content, since there are obvious ethical conflict of interest issues.

 

One would assume that he would follow that up with an obvious "In light of this, LMG will cease reviewing notebooks since I have a significant financial interest in a competitor succeeding". But no, instead he says...:

 

I'm reluctant to completely butt out

I'm not ready to make a firm commitment to covering or not covering notebooks in the future

 

Yeah, no. You need to butt out. You absolutely cannot be trusted any longer for unbiased laptop content. You have a significant motive to say negative things about other manufacturers in hopes that it may drive traffic to the company that you stand to make millions off of. Even if you honestly believe you can remain unbiased and ethical, it doesn't matter. We have no way to verify your claims and you have a responsibility just like every other outlet to avoid ethics violations. 

 

The cleanest way to handle this is to recuse myself.

 

Please take your own advice...

 

The cleanest way to handle this is to recuse myself. With the size and talent of our team, that's a legitimate option these days...

 

No, it isn't! It's not just you that needs to remove yourself from editorial laptop content, it's your entire company. You own LMG, you being on camera is NOT the issue here. Your company cannot in good faith create journalistic laptop content when you, THE OWNER, stand to make millions off of a competitor.

 

 

Linus, you love to rail on every company under the sun not being pro consumer, screwing the little guy, etc etc. Don't be an absolute hypocrite and put your money where your mouth is. Be pro consumer and keep yourself ethical. Otherwise all of your other thoughts and statements on other companies doing wrong mean absolutely nothing.

 

Also, while I'm at it... Intentionally spending only 15 seconds out of a 15 minute video to actually disclose your financial involvement in this company is questionable.

 

 

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