NAS help

[idivuoma]

We run a small office and we edit the same projects. Until now we edited out of the same disk, we moved it between computers. But we're thinking about upgrading to a NAS, and would need a few pointers. Or a lot.

 

This is on my shoppinglist:
- Synology 1621+

- Seagate Ironwolf 8 tb x 4

- Synology 10gbe PCI-E card

- Synology SNV3400-400g x 2 for cache

 

10gbe switches, cat6e cables and TB3-10gbe adapters for macs.

 

Depending on RAID setting, will I reach a minimum of 1000 mb/s readspeeds?

[Electronics Wizardy]

What are you editing?

 

If your editing video, Id try to get it all on solid state for current projectors if you can. Will be much nicer.

 

3 minutes ago, idivuoma said:

10gbe switches, cat6e cables and TB3-10gbe adapters for macs.

Id be darn temped to go fiber personally. cheaper cables, can do much higher speeds in the future, normally cheaper nics + swiches too. 

 

4 minutes ago, idivuoma said:

 

Depending on RAID setting, will I reach a minimum of 1000 mb/s readspeeds?

Easily, a single drive can easily hit those speeds.

[idivuoma]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

What are you editing?

 

If your editing video, Id try to get it all on solid state for current projectors if you can. Will be much nicer.

 

Id be darn temped to go fiber personally. cheaper cables, can do much higher speeds in the future, normally cheaper nics + swiches too. 

 

Easily, a single drive can easily hit those speeds.

We shoot with Blackmagic Ursa Mini G2, and edit Blackmagic Raw footage with up too 400 mb/s dataspeed. But we have some projects that may run heavier material 4-5k Prores and Red raw.

 

Fiber, is that SFP?

 

If I use RAID 5 in the setup, with the list I wrote above, will it hit 1000 mb/s?

 

Solid states are pricy, and would like to save a bit cash on that.

[Electronics Wizardy]

3 minutes ago, idivuoma said:

We shoot with Blackmagic Ursa Mini G2, and edit Blackmagic Raw footage with up too 400 mb/s dataspeed. But we have some projects that may run heavier material 4-5k Prores and Red raw.

 

Thats the lowest quality raw setup right? That should be dooable, but will be worse editing performance than a local disk.

 

5 minutes ago, idivuoma said:

If I use RAID 5 in the setup, with the list I wrote above, will it hit 1000 mb/s?

 

Yea you can easily hit 1000mb/s in the best case, but Id really try to SSDs here. Also more disks will help performance, so since the nas supports 6 disks, id start with 6 8tb drives here.

[idivuoma]

10 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Thats the lowest quality raw setup right? That should be dooable, but will be worse editing performance than a local disk.

 

Yea you can easily hit 1000mb/s in the best case, but Id really try to SSDs here. Also more disks will help performance, so since the nas supports 6 disks, id start with 6 8tb drives here.

Blackmagic Raw has very good quality bot low dataspeeds, one good selling point of BRaw. I think 400 mb/s is the highest Braw goes on full quality 4.6k.

 

The NAS is intended more to project-editing, and not backup, should I then go with a higher performance RAID than 5?

 

I'll look into SSDs. The Synology DS1621+ only supports synology-disks (according to their website) and they are pricy.

 

 

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 hour ago, idivuoma said:

Blackmagic Raw has very good quality bot low dataspeeds, one good selling point of BRaw. I think 400 mb/s is the highest Braw goes on full quality 4.6k.

According to the tech specs, thats about the lowest quality. THe highest quality bit rate is about 1.46gbit for 3:1 braw.

 

1 hour ago, idivuoma said:

The NAS is intended more to project-editing, and not backup, should I then go with a higher performance RAID than 5?

 

Id get ssds if you need performance, raid 10 will be a bit faster, but nothing compared to ssds.

 

1 hour ago, idivuoma said:

I'll look into SSDs. The Synology DS1621+ only supports synology-disks (according to their website) and they are pricy.

 

Nope, any ssd should work in this nas. You can also use 2.5in ssds. Id probably get a 2.5in nas for working footage and projects, then copy to a hdd based backup system.

 

How big are your projects normally? 

[idivuoma]

2 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

According to the tech specs, thats about the lowest quality. THe highest quality bit rate is about 1.46gbit for 3:1 braw.

 

Id get ssds if you need performance, raid 10 will be a bit faster, but nothing compared to ssds.

 

Nope, any ssd should work in this nas. You can also use 2.5in ssds. Id probably get a 2.5in nas for working footage and projects, then copy to a hdd based backup system.

 

How big are your projects normally? 

Maybe we're talking about different things with the BRaw. I assume the Braw playback datarate is the same as the rate it records in, which is under 300 mb/s on Q1 4.6k. But I might be wrong? Where did you read that 1.46 gbit?

I use Sandisk Extreme Pro portable SSD's from time to time to edit 4.6k 3:1 Braw, and I have no problems. Those disks max out at 450 mb/s read and write.

 

Spacerex had a review on Synology DS1819+, commented on his YT video and he responded that he had 7 Ironwolf HDD's and additional RAM and a 10gbe card in it, and he got around 800 mb/s readspeeds.

I'm looking at a DS1821+ now and filling it with 4tb WD Red's (the 7200 rpm 256mb cache ones), have I got it right with "the more disks, the more speed"?

SSD's are too pricy. But will a combination of SSD's and HDD's work in an 8-bay?

 

My projects differ, some are around 300gb and some others can be 2 tb.

 

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 hour ago, idivuoma said:

Maybe we're talking about different things with the BRaw. I assume the Braw playback datarate is the same as the rate it records in, which is under 300 mb/s on Q1 4.6k. But I might be wrong? Where did you read that 1.46 gbit?

I think your getting bytes and bits confused. The specs for the camera shows the datarate in bytes, not bits and its pretty uncommon to measure video bit rates in bytes/s

 

1 hour ago, idivuoma said:

I'm looking at a DS1821+ now and filling it with 4tb WD Red's (the 7200 rpm 256mb cache ones), have I got it right with "the more disks, the more speed"?

Id stick with the 8tb drives here, bigger and a bit faster.

 

6x8tb drives seems to be good here. You can get more expansion units as you need more space. The ssd cache should be enough for now(id get the non synology drives. You can add this later if you need to for more performance.

 

Should be fine for yoru workload(but not exactly sure, and if you need more performance you can always swap the hdds out with ssds. The big advantage of SSDs is the random io speeds for things like scrubbing, not the raw bandwdith. ESP with multiple editors, the latency can get pretty bad on HDDS

 

 

[idivuoma]

8 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

I think your getting bytes and bits confused. The specs for the camera shows the datarate in bytes, not bits and its pretty uncommon to measure video bit rates in bytes/s

Seems like it, and I'm googling this now to get a full understanding of bits and bytes.

 

8 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Id stick with the 8tb drives here, bigger and a bit faster.

 

6x8tb drives seems to be good here. You can get more expansion units as you need more space. The ssd cache should be enough for now(id get the non synology drives. You can add this later if you need to for more performance.

Good to have pointers, I'll stick with the 8tb drives and I'll look into SSD's and if the budget allows it. I have synology on my list now, because that's what's on the synology-compatibility list, and since I've never built a NAS I wasn't sure if other m.2's and SSD's would work. 

But I guess it's almost the same compatibility list as for the older DS1819+, since they have similar specs.

 

8 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

 

Should be fine for yoru workload(but not exactly sure, and if you need more performance you can always swap the hdds out with ssds. The big advantage of SSDs is the random io speeds for things like scrubbing, not the raw bandwdith. ESP with multiple editors, the latency can get pretty bad on HDDS

 

 

We might not have multiple editors on the same ESP, but a NAS would be easier in terms of switching between computers.