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PS4 Emulation is now a reality, sorta....

24 minutes ago, CyanideInsanity said:

Curious, which side of the fence are you on,聽that this is "technically" breaking rules, or that under no circumstances should anyone be doing this?

If you have a PS3, you can legitimately download it to use on your PS3. Obviously.聽

Though i'll give you this, the firmware can't do much by itself, so if people download the official, unmodified, firmware to use on an emulator, to play legitimate games and the emulator tattles on you to Sony, that's on you. Play offline. Pirates are going to pirate, so they already don't give a care.

To the extent that I care, the thing that annoys me with emulators are people repeating clearly wrong information about the legality of them.聽

It always comes back to

- "But emulators aren't illegal", emulators are a very broad class of software that range from bytecode virtual machines like Java to large scale virtual machines like cloud servers. Just because your video game emulator requires you to break the law, or the EULA to use it, doesn't make it any more legal.

- "But preservation!", I'm more willing to just not care about data hoarding if the IP holder is unwilling to keep it available for purchase. If you make a game, software application, it's on you to maintain it in perpetuity. If you withdraw it from sale, you forfeit any right to complain about fighting the piracy scene, because you're the one who is ignoring the demand for it.

- "But Homebrew!", Everyone makes this claim, and can never point to a homebrew game that people actually would be willing to mod聽 their expensive聽game console to play. It's always about parallel imports, unlicensed mods/hacked/cheating or pirated games, nothing else.聽

- "But the copy I downloaded is identical bit for bit to the game I physically own", yet the copyright law requires you to make a backup from YOUR copy, not someone elses.聽

- "But but but but..." No more buts. The average pirate pretends they are well versed in copyright law, but have really just repeated nonsense arguments that any actual lawyer would shoot down if it ever came to a legal fight.

There's only one case聽that deal with emulators

https://h2o.law.harvard.edu/cases/5198聽Sony vs Bleem

If the owner of the IP, sells the ROM's for use with an emulator, which only the Amiga has ever done so visibly

https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122#:~:text=Licensing the System Components,used or distributed under license.

There are many games on Steam that are using the game ROM's (such as the original releases of Final Fantasy聽4/5/6 and Chrono Trigger) as data files with what is otherwise a native mobile port of the game. If you know what you're doing you can fish out the ROM and play it on an actual GBA. The Sega classics are all just straight up game roms and you can also just drop those straight into any SMS/MD system and it'll work unaltered. There's also the strange case of the Bubsy game that had a compiled SNES emulator that questionably violates the license of the emulator. The EULA of these games may prohibit you from doing this, but after you "purchase" the games, or the game consoles, you can clearly do whatever you want with those. Including playing backup copies of your games that you threw in storage.

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14 hours ago, Kisai said:

Dolphin is honestly one of the most polished emulators out there, being able to play the actual games from the optical drive, given if you have an optical drive. The amount of effort in that emulator to avoid stepping on Nintendo's toes is rather incredible.

I have used Dolphin to play the GC/Wii games, even though both my聽Gamecube and Wii both still work, and still have a CRT. I can't bear to have the CRT plugged in because of the noise from the power circuitry, so everything remains unplugged unless someone else is over and wants to play.

"Better visuals" are not an excuse for emulation, in many cases I've seen emulators claim this and the opposite has been true because the person playing the game had no idea what it was supposed to look like. I cringe every time I see games being streamed in the wrong aspect ratio and at the wrong brightness level. This is one of the biggest reasons why Nintendo knows someone is playing a pirated game on youtube and delivers a DMCA smackdown, because the game looks incorrect, exhibits visual artifacts that the real hardware has never had, skips the console GUI, and such. That said, I said it in the previous post about now much Nintendo is heavy handed and anti-consumer, and people streaming pirated/hacked games using emulators do so at great risk.

The Playstation emulators have never been as polished as Dolphin.

Hahaha thus I specifically only reference Dolphin to make that statement. It really honestly is in a class of its聽own.

My favorite thing about that whole thing is that legitimately the most accurate N64 emulator currently available聽is Dolphin emulating VC emulating N64...

The most recent patch included making a change to emulate a hardware bug in powerpc on both N64 and Wii, that it turns out is critical to how speedrunners bug zelda games into bypassing almost the entire game. Hilarious stuff.

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On 9/10/2021 at 9:46 AM, Master Disaster said:

If you can fulfil all these requirements however you can now play Sonic Mania (as well as a few other titles) on a PC.

But sonic mania is already on pc

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On 9/10/2021 at 10:29 AM, jaslion said:

It's for legal reasons. You can't legally upload the console firmware

That part in the OP, aka requirement doesn't make sense...

You can download the firmware on Sony's website *legally* (same with ps3)

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/ps4/system-software/

I'm not sure why this would be a "requirement" to dump it yourself (maybe a mistake?)

ps: kinda same for the discs, I suppose,聽 not sure why you couldn't just copy the discs (grey area depending on country/laws) works for RPCS3...聽

Which btw, technically it doesn't matter if you rip from disc or console... a copy is a copy 馃

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18 hours ago, Kisai said:

Just because your video game emulator requires you to break the law, or the EULA

I care 0 about EULAs, most of them are BS and just plain have illegal demands and limits in them.

its just a companies attempt to cover their backside and make it so its harder to sue

interesting to see the OG Xbox hasn't had any given what its based on but the PS4 is getting closer which means the Xbox one shouldn't be too far behind

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13 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

I care 0 about EULAs, most of them are BS and just plain have illegal demands and limits in them.

its just a companies attempt to cover their backside and make it so its harder to sue

interesting to see the OG Xbox hasn't had any given what its based on but the PS4 is getting closer which means the Xbox one shouldn't be too far behind

Apparently the problem with emulating the OG Xbox is due to CPU聽being x86, which i know is kind of聽a dumb excuse when the PS4 is also x86 (and a far more modern and complex chip) and its starting to get emulated but that was the excuse of a guy that tried long ago to make an Xbox emulator, that was like 6-7 years ago though that i read that and that post was old at the time.

There's also the thing that Microsoft provides actual support to runs some of those games on current gen hardware legally,聽also Microsoft now days is making their current games available on PC, also i figure that the emu community rather focus on Sony/Nintendo hardware that have more iconic old gen games and less secure and complex hardware, all of that聽takes away interest in making an emu for the Xbox.

The Xbox one ain't getting an emulator soon either, this PS4 emu relies on hacked consoles, and probably part of what made the emulator聽possible is reverse engineering applied to the hacked console, up to this day, at least publicly, the encryption and security on the Xbox one all the way back to the original in 2013 hasn't been broken.

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1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

interesting to see the OG Xbox hasn't had any given what its based on

You mean emulators?

https://github.com/Cxbx-Reloaded/Cxbx-Reloaded

Haven't used it myself but seems to be working... i just remembered I read about this recently that it's "finally" somewhat working - something supposedly changed.聽

PS: "158" games playable,聽 seems pretty good to me. : D聽

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12 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

My favorite thing about that whole thing is that legitimately the most accurate N64 emulator currently available聽is Dolphin emulating VC emulating N64...

This isn't true. Dolphin is good at emulating how it played on wii, but that experience isn't great. There are tons of minor problems, and聽some are major enough to be added to the dolphin wiki specifying that they are not dolphin bugs.

PC N64 emulation has also improved. GlidenN64 came out in 2015聽was significantly better than any HLE plugin before it. Angrylion RDP Plus came out in 2017 and is very accurate, but needs a strong CPU and is聽at original resolution only. And last year, ParaLLEl was released and allows angrylion accuracy and higher resolutions with a somewhat modest GPU.

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On 9/10/2021 at 10:24 AM, FakeKGB said:

I think part of the problem is that GameCube/Wii discs don't read like normal DVDs and IIRC only one or two select LG optical drives can read them.

Perhaps it's possible if optical drives can be told to read and transmit the data bit for bit (not sure if this is how it's done already), but I doubt the Dolphin team cares too much as I believe it's possible to rip Wii games from your PC.

I don't use Dolphin for Wii games much though as I have an Wii for that - I use it to test my NSMBW hack. Works great for it.

Well I can rip PS2 games too, but it's cool to be able to just pop it in, and then it doesn't take hard drive space.

On 9/10/2021 at 1:45 PM, AlexGoesHigh said:

Dolphin can run games from the optical drive, they just have to be backup DVD of the original game, or like mentioned above, have one of the very few DVD drives that can read Wii/GC games because they use the same hardware as consoles drives.

Isn't that kind of pointless?

On 9/10/2021 at 7:36 PM, leadeater said:

Then you've never really used them lol

PCSX2 is nowhere near as good as Dolphin. I've never had to fuck around with settings I don't understand and forget what do in Dolphin, just load it up and start the game. Every game in PCSX2 needs it's own settings and hacks.

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18 hours ago, AlexGoesHigh said:

i figure that the emu community rather focus on Sony/Nintendo hardware that have more iconic old gen games and less secure and complex hardware, all of that聽takes away interest in making an emu for the Xbox.

The thing to me is the OG Xbox did have some really good exclusives, but more importantly it was also way more powerful than the PS2 and GC, so aside from higher progressive scan resolution and digital video output, a bunch of games were otherwise graphically superior on the Xbox.

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12 hours ago, Craftyawesome said:

This isn't true. Dolphin is good at emulating how it played on wii, but that experience isn't great. There are tons of minor problems, and聽some are major enough to be added to the dolphin wiki specifying that they are not dolphin bugs.

PC N64 emulation has also improved. GlidenN64 came out in 2015聽was significantly better than any HLE plugin before it. Angrylion RDP Plus came out in 2017 and is very accurate, but needs a strong CPU and is聽at original resolution only. And last year, ParaLLEl was released and allows angrylion accuracy and higher resolutions with a somewhat modest GPU.

VC not being perfect is not the same as it not being better than the current alternatives.

I may be a bit out of date on ParaLLEI, but the list of bugs on native N64 emulators was not small either...聽

Game by game may differ, but the previously listed Zelda N64 community has almost completely abandoned anything other than VC and likewise Dolphin is rapidly taking over (as the final bugs get squashed) as the preferred method to run VC Zelda.

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2 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Well I can rip PS2 games too, but it's cool to be able to just pop it in, and then it doesn't take hard drive space.

Isn't that kind of pointless?

PCSX2 is nowhere near as good as Dolphin. I've never had to fuck around with settings I don't understand and forget what do in Dolphin, just load it up and start the game. Every game in PCSX2 needs it's own settings and hacks.

Sortof pointless except to people wanting to feel extremely explicit about not being pirates hahaha.

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On 9/10/2021 at 5:27 AM, Kadzo said:

Now hold on i don`t get something. Why would you go to such lengths to have a fully hacked PS4 so you can emulate that game on PC? I get it if you don`t have a PS4 and don`t want one, but if you have one already why just don`t you play there?聽

I can't afford a PS4 (let alone a PS5) and I'd like to keep both of my kidneys at least until I'm 50, so an emu would be great.

Upon trying a PS3 game I found out gaming with a controller is terrible.

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On 9/10/2021 at 10:44 AM, Kadzo said:

technically emulators are piracy and all

You can pretty much download the emulator,download the firmware from Sony's website,buy physical game disks and use them in the emulator.

On 9/10/2021 at 10:27 AM, Kadzo said:

Why would you go to such lengths to have a fully hacked PS4 so you can emulate that game on PC? I get it if you don`t have a PS4 and don`t want one, but if you have one already why just don`t you play there?聽

For the same reason that i have聽a PS3聽but use RPCS3 on my PC.

It's especially useful to test how mods for games work or any other modification,

Also emulators let you run games at higher resolution than the original.

And don't forget those whose their console broke and doesn't work anymore,but still have the games and everything that they bought.

It doesn't mean that i retire my console,聽 i like it but emulators are useful for even those who own the聽console.

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5 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Every game in PCSX2 needs it's own settings and hacks.

No they don't and they are literally automatically applied if required, literally in the same way as Dolphin. Does anyone who comments on PCSX2 actually consistently use it? Doesn't seem like it.

5 hours ago, JZStudios said:

I've never had to fuck around with settings I don't understand and forget what do in Dolphin, just load it up and start the game.

And you don't have to with PCSX2 either. 10 years ago or more, maybe but not even then. Only time I've ever had to mess around with PCSX2 settings was back in Core 2 Era.

And this is only talking about PS2 emulation, how about we include PS1 emulation because there are two amazing options there one that is a bit more customizable (epsxe) and another that is straight up plug and play (pSX).

Don't mistake the ability to customize and mod with complexity, you don't have to do anything.

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1 hour ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

VC not being perfect is not the same as it not being better than the current alternatives.

I may be a bit out of date on ParaLLEI, but the list of bugs on native N64 emulators was not small either...聽

It may also be worth noting that most of the games on N64 VC are popular. These games usually work well on PC emulators. Unless the less popular games on VC have way more bugs on PC than I'm aware, even GlideN64 on release was significantly better. I wouldn't be surprised if some games were better on PC in 2006 (noise emulation in sm64 teleports/vanish cap, star fox being聽less buggy AFAIK).

3 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Game by game may differ, but the previously listed Zelda N64 community has almost completely abandoned anything other than VC and likewise Dolphin is rapidly taking over (as the final bugs get squashed) as the preferred method to run VC Zelda.

They intentionally exploit bugs in the Wii VC emulator to beat the game faster. It makes way more sense to fix dolphin than to intentionally break PJ64 to match Wii VC.

Also, "preferred method to run" is a stretch considering runs within 10% (OoT) or 15% (MM) must be on original hardware. Also AFAIK gz or kz (practice roms) are typically used for practice. Dolphin would probably be best for debugging a route idea.

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9 hours ago, leadeater said:

No they don't and they are literally automatically applied if required, literally in the same way as Dolphin. Does anyone who comments on PCSX2 actually consistently use it? Doesn't seem like it.

And you don't have to with PCSX2 either. 10 years ago or more, maybe but not even then. Only time I've ever had to mess around with PCSX2 settings was back in Core 2 Era.

And this is only talking about PS2 emulation, how about we include PS1 emulation because there are two amazing options there one that is a bit more customizable (epsxe) and another that is straight up plug and play (pSX).

Don't mistake the ability to customize and mod with complexity, you don't have to do anything.

Have you tried DuckStation? Its feature set is insane, its BY FAR the best PSX emulator I've ever used.

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23 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Have you tried DuckStation? Its feature set is insane, its BY FAR the best PSX emulator I've ever used.

Nope, I've basically just stuck with epsxe. Looks pretty great though.

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22 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Sortof pointless except to people wanting to feel extremely explicit about not being pirates hahaha.

Not really. You'd have to rip the disc to an iso and then transfer that iso to another disc. May as well just use the iso.

18 hours ago, leadeater said:

No they don't and they are literally automatically applied if required, literally in the same way as Dolphin. Does anyone who comments on PCSX2 actually consistently use it? Doesn't seem like it.

When? How?聽I'm using Spectabis to manage them and it 100% does not do that on it's own.聽Every game I have needs it's own settings and hacks, not to mention some games I have a custom controller mapping because in Burnout I don't like to hold a face button for throttle. Please explain to me how I can have PCSX2 automatically switch between these settings, because I've never seen it do it.

If you didn't have to go in and mess with settings per game no one would say that and there wouldn't be entire forum threads about how to get certain features in certain games to actually render and how to get the best performance out of them.

Meanwhile the few times I've used Dolphin it's been entirely plug and play.

18 hours ago, leadeater said:

And you don't have to with PCSX2 either. 10 years ago or more, maybe but not even then. Only time I've ever had to mess around with PCSX2 settings was back in Core 2 Era.

And this is only talking about PS2 emulation, how about we include PS1 emulation because there are two amazing options there one that is a bit more customizable (epsxe) and another that is straight up plug and play (pSX).

Don't mistake the ability to customize and mod with complexity, you don't have to do anything.

Literally every game I've tried on PCSX2 needs it's own settings so it renders correctly and runs at a decent framerate. Not to mention even just resolution scaling which you can alter per game depending on performance. Burnout 3 and Midnight Club 3 are more intensive and have to be run at a lower res. Not once has PCSX2 automatically switched anything.

I didn't mention PSX because I didn't mention it and it has no relevance to what I said.

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On 9/11/2021 at 3:03 AM, Kisai said:

"Better visuals" are not an excuse for emulation,

Disagree. I own both the actual PS2 device unmodded and the actual gamedisc DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3 and the game doesn't look very great on it. Once you emulate it, increase the resolution and add anti-aliasing, the game looked much more crisp and sharp, every fx looked much better and crisp too when I emulated it. But the laptop was heating up tho so never bothered with again since that because it was simply only for the giggles. It was way back in 2010 or 2011 and I had a C2D CPU and 9600M GT.

And oh, I kept the aspect ratio unchanged.

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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

I didn't mention PSX because I didn't mention it and it has no relevance to what I said.

I know, it's just the conversation started with no PlayStation emulator is as good as Dolphin.

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

When? How?聽I'm using Spectabis to manage them and it 100% does not do that on it's own.聽Every game I have needs it's own settings and hacks, not to mention some games I have a custom controller mapping because in Burnout I don't like to hold a face button for throttle. Please explain to me how I can have PCSX2 automatically switch between these settings, because I've never seen it do it.

I'm talking about game fixes that fix known issues, once they are accepted and patched they become automatic per game fixes unless the fix itself is an overall globally applicable fix to the emulator itself. If you want to switch controller mappings etc then that's just on you at the point, however I think it is possible to do controller mapping automatically for a game but I forget how and I personally don't really want to for any of the games I play, also I play with actual PS controllers and originally with a PS2 controller with a USB converter.

I've played all the Gran Turismo games, Metal Gear, every Final Fantasy, Ace Combat, Tekken, Bards Tale and numerous others all directly from the discs I own with no problems. Of course obviously after they became playable but they had that status loong ago.

Of the two games you mention it looks like聽Midnight Club 3 does still have problems, Burnout 3 seems a little mixed as to whether you have to anything currently.

All emulation is not perfect, not even Dolphin so I wouldn't go around with small sample sizes of games you own that may just happen to contain some of the few games that do have problems and conclude it's a wider problem than it is. Even Dolphin has it's own problems and choices you need to make sometimes depending on your hardware like whether or not to use Ubershaders. Just go in to the current bug tracking list for Dolphin, there's no聽shortage of minor issues getting reported and thankfully fixed.

All emulators to this day have their quirks, none are perfect, not even the official聽Sony software emulator on PS3 for PS2 games. In fact last I checked PCSX2 had a better game compatibility list than that does.

I'll save pulling out the edge case list of games that are a problem on Dolphin because it serves no聽useful purpose.

P.S. Don't even bother trying to compare the compatibility lists for the two emulators and looking at only perfect, there's huge numbers of games for PCSX2 that have not been updated or you check the wiki link for it and the status is No Bugs but yet isn't flagged as perfect. I'm not going to speculate on if Dolphin's list is more well maintained because I don't know, I do know PCSX2's is not.

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On 9/10/2021 at 1:44 AM, Kadzo said:

I get the legal reasons, technically emulators are piracy and all. So far as i can see this is a thing for people that like to tinker with stuff and software, outside of that i don`t get the point.

Emulators can be 100% legal.聽

Playing ROMs that you obtained legally from your own games on an emulator that uses firmware from your own console is 100% legal. There are legitimate use cases as well. What if I bought a SNES game and wanted to play it on my tablet while I was on a flight? Nothing to stop me from doing that.聽

Heck, what if I wanted to play an old gameboy game on something with a non 2-inch impossible to view screen?

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9 hours ago, leadeater said:

I'm talking about game fixes that fix known issues, once they are accepted and patched they become automatic per game fixes unless the fix itself is an overall globally applicable fix to the emulator itself. If you want to switch controller mappings etc then that's just on you at the point, however I think it is possible to do controller mapping automatically for a game but I forget how and I personally don't really want to for any of the games I play, also I play with actual PS controllers and originally with a PS2 controller with a USB converter.

I've played all the Gran Turismo games, Metal Gear, every Final Fantasy, Ace Combat, Tekken, Bards Tale and numerous others all directly from the discs I own with no problems. Of course obviously after they became playable but they had that status loong ago.

Of the two games you mention it looks like聽Midnight Club 3 does still have problems, Burnout 3 seems a little mixed as to whether you have to anything currently.

All emulation is not perfect, not even Dolphin so I wouldn't go around with small sample sizes of games you own that may just happen to contain some of the few games that do have problems and conclude it's a wider problem than it is. Even Dolphin has it's own problems and choices you need to make sometimes depending on your hardware like whether or not to use Ubershaders. Just go in to the current bug tracking list for Dolphin, there's no聽shortage of minor issues getting reported and thankfully fixed.

I only know it to do some hacks and widescreen/progressive patches. A lot of games require different settings in the video plugins and some need different audio settings.

How did you play MGS3? Is there a plugin that does analog buttons? I've tried looking for one and only saw posts saying lily pad doesn't support it. Other games like GT I use my steering wheel for. Burnout I think technically has analog throttle but it really doesn't matter.

For whatever reason Burnout 3 is really intensive, and you have to start the first race in software render otherwise the skybox doesn't load. The audio can also get laggy and glitchy. MC3 has issues rendering the headlights and is also kind of intensive, but with certain settings it's lessened and I've completed it.

I'd still say Dolphin is better overall. Has less fiddling, most games are progressive scan by default (Having to hold triangle on Burnout 3's boot or going into GT4's menu every time is very annoying) the games seem to run better, and I feel like I've done a texture mod which was pretty easy. And it has it's own built in library function PCSX2 doesn't really have, again why I use Spectabis.

9 hours ago, CTR640 said:

Disagree. I own both the actual PS2 device unmodded and the actual gamedisc DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3 and the game doesn't look very great on it. Once you emulate it, increase the resolution and add anti-aliasing, the game looked much more crisp and sharp

Interpolated 480i video signal sent over analog cables vs. (depending on the game and support) 16:9 1080p digital video signal with no degradation.

46 minutes ago, comander said:

Emulators can be 100% legal.聽

What if I bought a SNES game and wanted to play it on my tablet while I was on a flight? Nothing to stop me from doing that.聽

I think actually that is technically illegal. Pretty sure I remember reading a court case that happened over making roms of cartridges and it was found illegal. Don't remember why. At the time cartridges were still the primary game distribution method so it doesn't mention CD's or DVD's, just specifically cartridges for hardware reasons.

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18 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

I think actually that is technically illegal. Pretty sure I remember reading a court case that happened over making roms of cartridges and it was found illegal. Don't remember why. At the time cartridges were still the primary game distribution method so it doesn't mention CD's or DVD's, just specifically cartridges for hardware reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator#:~:text=According to all legal precedents,legal within the United States.&text=To mitigate this however%2C several,slight cost in emulation accuracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator#Legal_issues

Quote

According to all legal precedents, emulation is legal within the United States. However, unauthorized distribution of copyrighted code remains illegal.

Under United States law, obtaining adumpedcopy of the original machine'sBIOSis legal under the rulingLewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., 964 F.2d 965 (9th Cir. 1992) asfair useas long as the user obtained a legally purchased copy of the machine. To mitigate this however, several emulators for platforms such asGame Boy Advanceare capable of running without a BIOS file, using high-level emulation to simulate BIOS subroutines at a slight cost in emulation accuracy.

Perfectly fine to emulate hardware. Perfectly fine to use your own legally purchased software that you've dumped from onto physical media from its original cartridge/disk on other platforms. It is NOT legal to download a copy of your own software online and to use that in an emulator.聽

When emulation becomes illegal is when it relies on copyrighted firmware AND/OR uses illegally obtained software titles.聽

Broadly speaking - emulation = legal; software piracy = illegal

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54 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

How did you play MGS3? Is there a plugin that does analog buttons? I've tried looking for one and only saw posts saying lily pad doesn't support it. Other games like GT I use my steering wheel for. Burnout I think technically has analog throttle but it really doesn't matter.

You have to use an actual PS2 controller with a USB聽converter that does not emulate聽it to a Xbox controller and I forget which input plugin I was using at the time but it was treated as a raw input device and didn't use anything Windows. I've since switched to using a PS3 controller as that is the only currently fully supported controller that will work with every game.

Quote

As of February 2011, the only confirmed gamepad to support actual pressure sensitive buttons working with LilyPad is the official Sony DualShock 3, which requires a separate .dll download to get working on a PC.

If you are playing games with pressure sense or analog then you have to only use PS3 controller and nothing else. This is of course only a problem for those that do not own a PS3 controller聽馃檭

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

I'd still say Dolphin is better overall. Has less fiddling, most games are progressive scan by default

True good point, I think PAL versions of games have slightly less problems than NTSC (seemed to be the case very early on anyway). PS2 is simply 6 years older than the Wii and wasn't really designed around progressive scan because generally there wasn't wide support for it. GameCube just slightly a year later was actually designed for it but Nintendo found like 1% of people used it so remove the port that supported it from later hardware revision. However games largely kept support for it as people already had the consoles and they were already doing it so no reason to stop.

Also since I live in a PAL region progressive was outright disabled for both the GameCube and Wii even on the hardware models that supported it, argh.

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