Considering upgrade possibly to 5950X, can't decide between air or water.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

Hi, I have a topic in New Builds & Planning that goes into more detail on some other aspects of an upgrade I'm considering, but I wanted to split discussion on a CPU cooler into its own topic.

 

Basically, I'm looking at upgrading, possibly to an R9-5950X (from an i7-4790K).  I haven't decided what motherboard I'm getting (other than it won't be smaller than µATX or larger than standard ATX), in case that makes a difference in what CPU cooler I should get.  One under consideration is the MSI B550M Mortar, but I'm also considering other options.

(I may also go for just a 5900X, or maybe a 3900X; in the latter's case I may just use the stock cooler.)

 

I will be reusing some other parts - specifically (relevant to this topic) my Fractal Design Define R5 case, among other things.  (It's the standard version with white fans, etc, and no side window.)

 

One thought that came to mind early on was pilfering the Hyper 212 Evo off the 4790K and using that, while the 4790K gets its stock heatsink installed.  (Yes, the K CPUs used to come with a heatsink - mine has the copper slug.)

However, I would need to get an AM4 bracket for my 212 Evo (I bought it in January 2015, idk if AM4 existed in AMD's labs yet at that point).  Also I still remember how much of a myalgia or sciatic neuralgia of the gluteus maximus it was trying to install the thing.

 

 

I'm trying to figure out what CPU cooler I should get, if I go for the 5950X.  I have a spreadsheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wZt7896sKmYZwLsT201Gvgquo-gFTaXX1La2Z-pfUhE/edit?usp=sharing - which has some that I'm considering.

(I was also trying to do some research / reading reviews, but quickly realized it would take a lot to look up reviews of every compatible CPU cooler that exists.)

I also don't want to spend a huge chunk on the CPU cooler if I don't have to.  (For example if I could keep it down to about $60-70, great, but even $100-120 is doable, maybe a bit more under the right circumstances.  Also I'm debating between buying in the next few days / week, vs waiting for late November.)

 

Some criteria I'm looking for include:

• If it's an air cooler, does not block any RAM slots, even if all possible fans are installed on the cooler.
• If it's a water cooler, it doesn't require removing any HDD bays.
• In either case, it's fairly quiet, at least at stock settings.  (Would like the system to be quiet enough so that a spinning-but-idle hard drive is the loudest sound under load.)
• Also should be very easy to install and uninstall - preferably as easy as it is to swap DIMMs when using a stock Intel heatsink on one of those platforms.

 

 

I keep going back and forth between wanting to try air cooling, vs wanting to imbibe the CPU with dihydrogen monoxide.

 

With an AIO, there's the risk of having pump failures, or leakage, among other things; but it wouldn't block RAM slots.  Also, with up to a 240mm AIO in the top, it would still let me use all other fan mounts, and the ODD cage.  (I do still use that once in a while but not much anymore.)

With a 280 or 420mm AIO, I'd be limited to 55mm thick including radiator and fans, and would have to forego either using the rear fan mount, or ODD cage, or both.  A 360 isn't limited in thickness, but still prevents using the ODD bays.  (I seldom use it anymore anyway - I could probably just plug it in outside the case with the side panel open, as needed.)

 

With a HSF, I think it might still run (at reduced clocks) even if the fan failed; but if I got one that was too big it would block RAM slots, or, it might not be enough to cool a 5950X.

 

 

I don't plan on doing much if any overclocking, but I would definitely consider undervolting to try to get lower temperatures or quieter operation.  (Although my requirement above for quiet operation assumes everything is at full stock, but with PBO / MCE / etc enabled but no manual overclock.)

I wonder how good the 5950X would be at undervolting, compared to the i7-6700K in my Clevo laptop ...  I have that set at -140 mV, and under load it uses around 65-70 watts.  (TDP is 91 watts for the 6700K.)

 

 

Also, if I go with air cooling, I'd likely not reuse that cooler on my next upgrade, but if I went with water, I would consider it.

(That next upgrade might be, budget permitting then, a 2nd or 3rd DDR5 generation Threadripper Pro or Epyc around late 2024 to 2028 or so, depending on when it's released plus how long I'd have to wait for it to be on fire sale for Black Friday.  But then OTOH, if I did reuse the cooler on a TR/Epyc, I'd still need a cooler for the 5950X if I wanted to keep that running as a secondary / occasional-use PC at that time, like I plan to do with the 4790K this time.)

 

 

(If I can think of more, I'll add it later; I feel like there's something I'm forgetting.)

[Chris Pratt]

7 minutes ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

(I may also go for just a 5900X, or maybe a 3900X; in the latter's case I may just use the stock cooler.)

R9s don't come with coolers, so there is no "stock". The 5950X doesn't strictly need anything better than air, but some of the larger air coolers do have compatibility issues. If you want to avoid those, but still go air, I'd recommend a U12A. It's has nearly the same performance as the lauded D15, with none of the compatibility issues. If you want to go AIO, you really need a 280mm or larger, so make sure you have room in your case for that. Then, I'd recommend an Artic Liquid Freezer II. It is one of the top performing AIOs, while also being one of the best values as well.

[KnoT]

Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240 works rly well for me can recommend.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:09 AM, Chris Pratt said:

R9s don't come with coolers, so there is no "stock". The 5950X doesn't strictly need anything better than air, but some of the larger air coolers do have compatibility issues. If you want to avoid those, but still go air, I'd recommend a U12A. It's has nearly the same performance as the lauded D15, with none of the compatibility issues. If you want to go AIO, you really need a 280mm or larger, so make sure you have room in your case for that. Then, I'd recommend an Artic Liquid Freezer II. It is one of the top performing AIOs, while also being one of the best values as well.

I thought the 3900X came with the Wraith Prism LED?

 

The U12A made my initial list, but I'm not sure I'd want to pay upwards of $100+ for an air cooler.  (What about the U12S though, or the Dark Rock Slim or Shadow Rock 3, or others?)

 

You don't think a 240mm AIO would work?

 

Technically a 280 or larger would fit my case, but it would require compromises:

• 280mm: maximum total/combined thickness = 55mm; can't use rear fan
• 360mm: can't use ODD cage (I do use a Pioneer BDR-209DBK once in a while.)
• 420mm: maximum thickness 55mm, can't use rear fan or ODD cage

(I was looking up some of the Arctic coolers, and they're thicker than 55mm including the fans, so the 360 (or 240) would be my only options with those.)

 

Also I'd have to mount it in the top of the case (which would prevent me being able to set things, like drinks for example, or other boxes of things, on top of the case).  Anywhere else would require me to remove HDD cages, and I've already had occasions where I ran out of cages and had to run HARD DRIVES(!!) just sitting loose outside the case.  

[Chris Pratt]

7 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

I thought the 3900X came with the Wraith Prism LED?

Not the last I checked. Prism isn't capable of cooling it properly. Basically the line is 65W TDP for stock coolers. For the 125W CPUs AMD figures you're going to want something better anyways.

 

7 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

The U12A made my initial list, but I'm not sure I'd want to pay upwards of $100+ for an air cooler.  (What about the U12S though, or the Dark Rock Slim or Shadow Rock 3, or others?)

You really need a larger air cooler for the higher end chips like a 3900X. The U12A was engineered to perform like a larger air cooler while being smaller. That's why it's more expensive. It's one of the best air coolers you can throw in a case without worrying about compatibility at all (which you specifically said was a concern). The U12S, despite having a similar name, is an entirely different class of cooler. It's still good, and may be good enough. I used one on my 5900X for a while, but the temps weren't great. It wasn't in danger of thermal throttling, but it also wasn't far off. I also had a really good airflow case, with Noctua fans, and I added a second fan to the U12S. In other words, YMMV and probably in the not good enough direction.

 

7 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

You don't think a 240mm AIO would work?

It will work, but a larger air cooler or a U12A will outperform most 240mm AIOs on the market.

 

[Daethz]

I had a kraken x73 water cooler on my 5950x, it didn't perform well at all, fans sat at 100% and it still got to the upper 80c's

Air cooler Noctua DH15 keeps her in the 70c's on heavy loads.

 

Do not go with anything smaller/weaker than a Noctua DH15, it wont be enough.

And if you use a case with no or minimal front intake airflow, don't go air either. Like NZXT cases, they ruin aircooling completely for higher end cpus

 

It may be worthwhile replacing the fans that come with any aio with the best noctuas you can get, I never tried that but i still wonder how well it wouldve done.

 

5950x is a challenge to cool, runs dramatically hotter than any cpu I ever worked with.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

 

On 9/5/2021 at 12:57 PM, Tillamook233 said:

To answer your question: A decent Noctua cooler could probably work just fine if you don’t want to overclock that much. I would advise you buy eSATA enclosures for the hard drives outside of your computer. It pains me to see hard drives without vibration control as that could dramatically reduce the lifespan of your drives. A 240mm AIO would also work well but there is no real reason you need an AIO as air is much more reliable than water.

 

Ahh, yeah, I'm starting to consider the U12A a bit more than I had been.

 

Do you mean single-drive eSATA enclosures, or single USB / SATA enclosures, or something else?  I actually used to have a Rosewill SATA to eSATA / USB (2.0 I think) enclosure several years ago, but I found out it only supported drives up to 2 TB, so I no longer have it anymore.  Also I think my current motherboard (ASRock Z97 Extreme6) does have an eSATA port, but I don't think it supports hot swap.  (Having an eSATA port isn't a requirement for my next motherboard - chances are it won't have one.)

 

I haven't found one yet, but I've wanted to get some kind of external enclosure that would support several HDDs, and preferably use a connection that's not limited to USB bandwidth.  One idea I had was inspired when I saw some cheap HBAs with external SAS ports - a couple years ago or so I was seeing the LSI 9200-16e for like $20-30 on eBay.  (That has four SFF8088 ports, each of which can use breakout cables to go to 4 SATA devices.)

And yes, I've wanted an actual main case that supports chocking it that full of hard drives ... although I've also thought of another option - a dual-chamber cube case, kind-of like if you doubled the width of the Define 7 XL or Enthoo Pro 2 or something like that.  Have the mobo & its components on one side, and the HDDs on the other side, kind-of like this extremely rough (IRL, not in software) mockup of approximate parts placement...
    

 

You may ask "why don't you go rackmount"?  Well, I don't even have a place to PUT a rack cabinet.  (That could change when I move, which had been planned for last month but it's been delayed for multiple reasons, one being that I couldn't find places that would rent to me due to my low income; they apparently don't like to use savings as proof that I'd be able to make payments, among other things.)  Also I've heard that they're not exactly the best solution if you're also looking for silence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 9/5/2021 at 7:38 PM, Chris Pratt said:

Not the last I checked. Prism isn't capable of cooling it properly. Basically the line is 65W TDP for stock coolers. For the 125W CPUs AMD figures you're going to want something better anyways.

Hmm, cause on the various retail sites I've seen (and AMD's own site) it mentions it coming with that cooler.  And sure, I would imagine the Prism couldn't push it to, say, 4.8 or 5 GHz on all cores, but I'd guess it could at least keep it from thermal throttling in non-AVX workloads at stock?

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

You really need a larger air cooler for the higher end chips like a 3900X. The U12A was engineered to perform like a larger air cooler while being smaller. That's why it's more expensive. It's one of the best air coolers you can throw in a case without worrying about compatibility at all (which you specifically said was a concern). The U12S, despite having a similar name, is an entirely different class of cooler. It's still good, and may be good enough. I used one on my 5900X for a while, but the temps weren't great. It wasn't in danger of thermal throttling, but it also wasn't far off. I also had a really good airflow case, with Noctua fans, and I added a second fan to the U12S. In other words, YMMV and probably in the not good enough direction.

 

It will work, but a larger air cooler or a U12A will outperform most 240mm AIOs on the market.

Ahh, so maybe the U12A would be a good idea.  (I wonder how it would compare to similarly-priced AIOs...)

What was the U12S like, more specifically on the 5900X?  What temps at what frequencies?

I'm still undecided on the board right now (although I'm now considering 5900X and a better board & cooler, instead of 5950X and a cheap board & cooler, in the same budget, went into more detail in a reply in new builds and planning forum); as for the case I have a Fractal Design Define R5 - the standard black with white accents, no window version.  I removed the front door so that 1 - I wouldn't break it in the process of opening it (or leaving it open & bumping into it), and 2 - I'd get more airflow.

 

 

 

 

 

On 9/6/2021 at 4:27 PM, Daethz said:

I had a kraken x73 water cooler on my 5950x, it didn't perform well at all, fans sat at 100% and it still got to the upper 80c's

Air cooler Noctua DH15 keeps her in the 70c's on heavy loads.

 

Do not go with anything smaller/weaker than a Noctua DH15, it wont be enough.

And if you use a case with no or minimal front intake airflow, don't go air either. Like NZXT cases, they ruin aircooling completely for higher end cpus

 

It may be worthwhile replacing the fans that come with any aio with the best noctuas you can get, I never tried that but i still wonder how well it wouldve done.

 

5950x is a challenge to cool, runs dramatically hotter than any cpu I ever worked with.

Ahh hmm ... a D15 would be too big I think, I really don't want a cooler for which any part of it (fins or fans) overhangs RAM slots or other ports.  Hence one of the reasons I'm looking at AIO.  (But I also want to, if possible, avoid the possible pitfalls of AIOs, like leaks, not having something physical on the CPU to keep it from burning up in case of fan / pump failure, etc.)

 

Hopefully the Define R5 I have, with its door removed, has at least not terrible front air flow.  (I wonder how much it is affected when I have the HDD cages fully populated....)

 

I hadn't really considered replacing the fans with Noctuas, but hadn't ruled it out either.

Speaking of fans ... one thing I might want in my next case / build after this one, is a way to use like 250mm or larger fans, so hopefully they could run even quieter.  And I mean better than the large fans in my previous Rosewill Thor V2 case -- the 120s / 140s or whatever are in my Define R5 are actually, I think, a bit quieter.  (The R5 doesn't support larger fans, and I'm not planning on replacing the case now, but when I do for a possible TR/Epyc build around 2024Q4-2028, support for SSI EEB or larger motherboards and well over 12-15+ HDDs will be a couple requirements.)

 

 

 

[Jeppes]

Most coolers, D15 included, wont block ram slots unless you some ridiculously high sticks.

[Chris Pratt]

14 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

Most coolers, D15 included, wont block ram slots unless you some ridiculously high sticks.

It's more problematic than you think. The D15 only offers 32mm of RAM clearance in its normal config. You can shift the RAM side fan up to get 40mm of clearance, but even that wasn't enough for my Ripjaws V, which aren't exactly "ridiculously high sticks". You also need the case clearance to be able to do that. If you remove the fan entirely, then you can accommodate higher RAM, but at that point, you've got a D15S, and the cooling performance isn't as good.

[chebsy]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:09 AM, Chris Pratt said:

I'd recommend a U12A. It's has nearly the same performance as the lauded D15

Is this in the context of a 125w heat load, or in general?  Because I'm wondering where you got this information or how you came to that conclusion.

[Chris Pratt]

1 hour ago, chebsy said:

Is this in the context of a 125w heat load, or in general?  Because I'm wondering where you got this information or how you came to that conclusion.

In general. It's from Noctua. They specifically engineered the U12A as a direct result of the compatibility issues of the D15, i.e. they designed it to achieve a similar level of performance while having near universal compatibility. 

 

Quote

Conceived to push the envelope of the 120mm form factor, it combines two of Noctua’s flagship model NF-A12x25 PWM 120mm fans with a completely redesigned heatsink featuring 7 heatpipes and an increased fin surface area for superior heat dissipation. This way, the NH-U12A can rival the performance of many 140mm size coolers while offering 120mm class case and PCIe compatibility. 

https://noctua.at/en/nh-u12a

[chebsy]

4 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

In general. It's from Noctua. They specifically engineered the U12A as a direct result of the compatibility issues of the D15, i.e. they designed it to achieve a similar level of performance while having near universal compatibility. 

 

https://noctua.at/en/nh-u12a

That doesn't say anything about the D15 though, you said specifically it was nearly the same performance. 

[Chris Pratt]

13 minutes ago, chebsy said:

That doesn't say anything about the D15 though, you said specifically it was nearly the same performance. 

The D15 is a 140mm cooler, which is specifically says it "rivals", but if you want to be a stickler about it, check the ratings Noctua applies to their coolers in the chart on this page:

 

https://noctua.at/en/noctua-standardised-performance-rating

 

It's most similar to a D15S, but it's nearly the same as a D15, exactly as I said.

[MultiGamerClub]

59 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

The D15 is a 140mm cooler, which is specifically says it "rivals", but if you want to be a stickler about it, check the ratings Noctua applies to their coolers in the chart on this page:

 

https://noctua.at/en/noctua-standardised-performance-rating

 

It's most similar to a D15S, but it's nearly the same as a D15, exactly as I said.

Guess i know what im going for next, interesting to see a dual 120mm compete with a bigger dual 140mm cooler.. From the same brand..

[chebsy]

1 hour ago, Chris Pratt said:

The D15 is a 140mm cooler, which is specifically says it "rivals", but if you want to be a stickler about it, check the ratings Noctua applies to their coolers in the chart on this page:

 

https://noctua.at/en/noctua-standardised-performance-rating

 

It's most similar to a D15S, but it's nearly the same as a D15, exactly as I said.

Thanks.  I was not trying to be a stickler, I just wanted to see where your information was coming from, whether it was personal testing or otherwise.  If Noctua themselves claim the U12A is on par with (or better than) a U14s and D15s then I can't blame anyone for making statements to that effect. 

[Chris Pratt]

1 hour ago, MultiGamerClub said:

Guess i know what im going for next, interesting to see a dual 120mm compete with a bigger dual 140mm cooler.. From the same brand..

The only problem, at least for me, is that they don't make the U12A in a chromax.black version yet. I love me some Noctua, but that old school brown is a deal breaker for me. Hopefully, that's something they'll correct in due time.

 

[MultiGamerClub]

8 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

The only problem, at least for me, is that they don't make the U12A in a chromax.black version yet. I love me some Noctua, but that old school brown is a deal breaker for me. Hopefully, that's something they'll correct in due time.

 

Currently already have a 360mm rad on my 3600 non-x but almost tempted to get the U12A for another pc, already have a U12S around but i dont have the backplate anymore anyway. Will have to order a few.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

 

 

 

On 9/11/2021 at 1:31 PM, Jeppes said:

Most coolers, D15 included, wont block ram slots unless you some ridiculously high sticks.

 

On 9/11/2021 at 1:45 PM, Chris Pratt said:

It's more problematic than you think. The D15 only offers 32mm of RAM clearance in its normal config. You can shift the RAM side fan up to get 40mm of clearance, but even that wasn't enough for my Ripjaws V, which aren't exactly "ridiculously high sticks". You also need the case clearance to be able to do that. If you remove the fan entirely, then you can accommodate higher RAM, but at that point, you've got a D15S, and the cooling performance isn't as good.

 

Yeah... "unless you use some ridiculously high sticks" ... that still means it blocks RAM slots.  For me, ANYTHING above the RAM slots, no matter how high, especially if it's attached to the motherboard, would be considered to "block RAM slots".  (Exceptions of course can be allowed for the case itself, and where applicable, any fan / AIO mounted there, within reason.)

 

When I built my desktop, I originally got G.Skill Sniper DDR3 RAM.  Turned out that was too high:

 

So I exchanged the 32GB of Sniper (the above pic was taken during the brief time I only had 16GB) for Ares, which was lower profile, AND was cheaper to boot.  ($200 for Ares vs $260 for Sniper, thanks to a sale on the Ares.)

 

The fan still blocks the first slot though, but it's "functional", in that the slot can be populated.

 

I can't remove RAM from the first slot though, without first taking off the fan, even with those DIMMs.

 

Imagine if I had higher profile sticks, like some of the taller ones in the spoiler...

Spoiler

 

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Basically I'd want a cooler such that, if I used those high-profile sticks, I'd still be able to remove and reinstall RAM from the first slot, with the second slot populated (with the tall stick), and without having to do anything to get a fan (or heatsink - I saw some coolers where the finstack itself overhung the slots and had a cutaway!) out of the way.

 

I'd actually, though, prefer RAM sticks that are no higher profile that the G.Skill Aegis RAM pictured in several places in the spoiler, or better yet, low profile like the Crucial Ballistix DDR3 in the first pic.  Or, for standard height, something like the Samsung RAM sticks on the right in most of the comparisons, but I don't think Ryzen / AM4 supports those.  (However, support for RDIMMs and/or LRDIMMS will be a requirement with my next upgrade after this one - Threadripper / Epyc, around 2024-2028 or so.)

 

 

 

I was wondering.... while I may not be looking at this motherboard right now (although it was briefly under consideration - would have been possible to get 512GB RAM and 24 cores / 48 threads for about the same cost that I'd pay for 128GB RAM and 12 cores on AM4, but it would have been an older architecture, lacking security patches, poor single-threaded performance and laggy in general responsiveness, etc), ...
What decent-quality CPU coolers would be used on something like that, so they wouldn't block any RAM slots or the other socket, at all?  (No cheating by using the passive heatsinks I've seen sometimes, that use fans mounted elsewhere for airflow, also it has to be much quieter than those rack server configurations.)

(Also for an extra challenge, imagine you're height limited, and the tops of the RAM sticks or back panel ports are touching the top of the case, which also of course would necessitate using riser cables for the expansion slots.)

 

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- (hey does anyone know a ubb/html code / whatever works on the forum for inserting a horizontal line that's automatically the screen width, depending on what you're viewing with?)

 

 

@chebsy & @Chris Pratt (don't feel like embedding all your quotes, but it's commenting on your discussing the NH-D12A...)

 

 

About the link to the NSPR info ... I also like to tables from the CPU compatibility page, like this one, sorted by NSPR, descending.

https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/AMD-Ryzen-9-5900X-1045

 

I also, out of curiosity, looked up their estimated performance for some higher TDP CPUs, like some LGA2011-3, LGA2066, and the FX-9590 on AM3+, as well as a few others.  Understandably, some of the lesser-tier coolers would have trouble with some of the HEDT CPUs, although in general the U12A and D15s (that's plural, not the specific model, hence the lower case "s" ... quick grammar question... when you have an "s" in the end of a model number, what, if anyone knows, is the correct way to state that you're talking about multiple, and not possessive, like could be a cause for confusion by using 's?)

The FX-9590 showed the D15s, U12A, etc, as having low turbo/OC headroom, maybe a couple others as barely working, and most of the rest as "cooler cannot handle base clock".  (Of course I don't plan on building around the FX-9590  was just curious how the different Noctua coolers would be expected to perform with it, and compare to more modern, less hot CPUs.)

 

 

 

For me, while a chromax black version might be nice ... I don't think it'd be absolutely necessary in my case, idk if pun needed.

Speaking of which, I use the Define R5, with the front door removed as I said earlier.  The side panels are of the solid variety, although for now I have them removed for easier swapping of HDDs.  (When I get another case, I'll want easier access for hot-swapping 3.5" SATA devices, among other things.)

 

 

 

Hey there's another thing I may have forgotten to ask, too...

 

How easy (or challenging) is it to install / uninstall the Noctua coolers, compared to others, like be quiet! and other common brands?  (Also, vs. the stock Intel and AMD coolers, also comparing coolers that need backplates vs those that don't.)

And what about migrating the cooler to another platform?  For example I'm looking at AM4 now, but once we get to the 2nd or 3rd generation on DDR5-compatible sockets (I prefer letting other people be the beta testers for the 1st gen), I might be looking at TR5 or SP5 (whichever supports RDIMMs/LRDIMMs), which I hear rumors is a bigger socket than TR4/SP3/etc, with about 2K more pins.

 

I still remember how much of a pain in the gluteus maximus it was to install my Hyper 212 Evo in 2015, although I don't specifically remember WHAT was a pain about it, whether it was installing the backplate while holding something on the front side, or some difficulty with access to screwing the heatsink down, or something else.  For all the issues I hear people complaining about stock heatsinks, I think I remember installing the stock AMD heatsink in 2008 was a lot easier.  (I haven't had experience yet with installing a stock Intel heatsink though.)

Ideally I'd like it to be as easy to work with the CPU cooler, as it is plugging in RAM in the slot farthest from the socket, or plugging/unplugging a USB device.   (I almost mentioned storage devices, like M.2 and 3.5" devices, but in my current system, the M.2 slot sits under where a GPU would go if I had it installed, and requires a screw, and my 3.5" drives require the use of screws in the drive bay, adding extra steps.  Also the use / application / cleanup of TIM counts toward the complexity of installing / uninstalling the cooler.)

 

Speaking of thermal paste application, I probably need to learn a better way of applying the stuff.  I wanted to apply in the X style on my laptop's CPU and GPU, but maybe squeezed the plunger from the tube of of NT-H1 a bit hard ... I think I was having trouble with getting consistently even thinner lines, so they ended up being a bit thicker.

 

The laptop runs pretty much fine, of course, and my CPU temps stay down in the upper 60s to low/mid 70s C or so under non-AVX load on all cores, and my GPU stays reasonably cool too (I think in the upper 60s last I remember, don't feel like opening Furmark right now to confirm).