Firefox users down 50 million since 2018

[Mooshi]

8 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Or you know, just have a simple option to disable that gradient vomit and only have a blank white page? Or page of any color that isn't this weird purple gradient that makes your eyes bleed? They never address stuff like this for some dumb reason and this is why I'm not using Brave. It's full of such shit.

LOL..this is such a non-issue. I use Brave for desktop and mobile. I don't deal with any "gradient vomit" on new pages. There's the accent purple bar at the top in settings that you rarely see. But I don't think that is what you were reffering to.

 

This is akin to someone hating Edge because they hate Bing -- something the user can easily change.

 

Quote

And this is why I don't like Chrome browsers at all with exception of Vivaldi where they include tweaks and settings for bunch of stuff. With Chrome or Brave, don't like something, install an addon. And every addon eats memory like there is no tomorrow. In the end the browser that's slim out of the box becomes fat sloth with 35 addons/extensions for every stupid tiny thing you wanted to change because it's actually so inflexible (stuffing bunch of half baked questionable addons to solve trivial stuff that should be in the settings is NOT flexible design). This especially annoys me in Brave where you save extensions because of included adblocker and anti-tracker, but then you need 10 more for each stupid thing and you end up making it worse in the end. In Firefox I have 6 extensions total because rest of stuff is modified in about:config. To get same functionality I need like 30 extensions in Chrome based browsers I shit you not.

Firefox hasn't been slim since the versions were in the single digits. I only have 2 extentions currently, both low impact. Only other ones I were using before in Chrome either don't need to be added to Brave or was less browser functionality and more site related like Twitter.

[WolframaticAlpha]

45 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Not all addons have the same performance impact...

An addon that changes the new page tab to about:blank will most likely use next to no resources at all. The addon itself is literally less than 5KB in size.

 

Also, I went from Firefox to ChrEdge and I use 4 addons. I can't imagine why anyone would need 35 addons. Can you give some examples of things you want to do with your browser that doesn't work without addons? Other than changing chrome://newtab obviously.

I don't use 35, but I have quite a few including: LTT, Ublock, ghostery, rss, google docs, readermode, pocket, grammarly, endnote, kupernicus, sponsorblock, vpn, meet extension, gotowebinar, dark mode for google docs and vimium. So a normal person like me used 14 extensions on chrome

[RejZoR]

41 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

LOL..this is such a non-issue. I use Brave for desktop and mobile. I don't deal with any "gradient vomit" on new pages. There's the accent purple bar at the top in settings that you rarely see. But I don't think that is what you were reffering to.

 

This is akin to someone hating Edge because they hate Bing -- something the user can easily change.

 

Firefox hasn't been slim since the versions were in the single digits. I only have 2 extentions currently, both low impact. Only other ones I were using before in Chrome either don't need to be added to Brave or was less browser functionality and more site related like Twitter.

Non issue? Just some "accent purple bar"... Sure you can replace it if you use any other webpage, but if you want Brave's starting page with some statistcis and other info, you're forced to download photos every time you open which creates stupid delay or you have to watch this ugly gradient vomit if you disable photos. Option to have just blank white or dark grey background if in Dark Mode is non existent. Asked for it ages ago and still nothing. It's such stupid stuff that makes me not want to use it. And Absolutely broken and unreliable iOS syncing of bookmarks that was pure garbage every time I tried it. It either didn't sync at all or it synced at first and then just forgot what's its job or it was just restoring deleted bookmarks out of the blue etc

 

I just made this screenshot...

 

 

[staticpage]

Honesty I stopped caring about Mozilla when the diversity hire team forced pocket to blare LGBTWXYZ stuff on my start page and I had to manually remove it every update. Then when I complained about it to the pocket team on twitter I got berated by some "team leader" chick who called me raciest names (I'm not even white i'm a immigrant) that had also been constantly posting about being in a pool she just bought from all the hard work she did on shity pocket.

 

She was fired a short while later and I never saw pocket again.

 

I worked long enough around companies like this to know "go woke go broke" doesn't always apply but it did here.

[Quinnell]

4 hours ago, staticpage said:

Honesty I stopped caring about Mozilla when the diversity hire team forced pocket to blare LGBTWXYZ stuff on my start page and I had to manually remove it every update. Then when I complained about it to the pocket team on twitter I got berated by some "team leader" chick who called me raciest names (I'm not even white i'm a immigrant) that had also been constantly posting about being in a pool she just bought from all the hard work she did on shity pocket.

 

She was fired a short while later and I never saw pocket again.

 

I worked long enough around companies like this to know "go woke go broke" doesn't always apply but it did here.

A moderator already nuked posts in this thread for 'discussing company policies' instead of the technology.  I expect this post will be the same.

That said, I have tried Mozilla recently and will still use it occasionally to troubleshoot stuff since it's basically the only non Chromium browser left outside of Safari.  I think the problem is I am not sure I can trust them with my data anymore since they've made some pro-censorship moves and I'm wary of any company or product that embraces that philosophy.  

[Quinnell]

5 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Non issue? Just some "accent purple bar"... Sure you can replace it if you use any other webpage, but if you want Brave's starting page with some statistcis and other info, you're forced to download photos every time you open which creates stupid delay or you have to watch this ugly gradient vomit if you disable photos. Option to have just blank white or dark grey background if in Dark Mode is non existent. Asked for it ages ago and still nothing. It's such stupid stuff that makes me not want to use it. And Absolutely broken and unreliable iOS syncing of bookmarks that was pure garbage every time I tried it. It either didn't sync at all or it synced at first and then just forgot what's its job or it was just restoring deleted bookmarks out of the blue etc

 

I just made this screenshot...

 

[photo-snip]

The issue with the start-page really feels like a pretty minor gripe tbh.   As for the sync issue, I honestly can't say I've ever had the problems you're having.  Synced across mobile and a couple PCs and I've yet to have sync issues.

[RejZoR]

54 minutes ago, Quinnell said:

The issue with the start-page really feels like a pretty minor gripe tbh.   As for the sync issue, I honestly can't say I've ever had the problems you're having.  Synced across mobile and a couple PCs and I've yet to have sync issues.

It's always bunch of minot things at which point you just ask yourself, why the hell am I dealing with all these dumb minor problems at all?

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

It's always bunch of minot things at which point you just ask yourself, why the hell am I dealing with all these dumb minor problems at all?

Judging by your previous posts regarding Firefox, it sounds like you have to live with, fix or work around lots of minor problems with that too. 

I think your problem right now is that you are used to Firefox so things bring different are seen as issues, while you have oversight with Firefox issues since you have already learned to deal with them. 

[RejZoR]

10 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Judging by your previous posts regarding Firefox, it sounds like you have to live with, fix or work around lots of minor problems with that too. 

I think your problem right now is that you are used to Firefox so things bring different are seen as issues, while you have oversight with Firefox issues since you have already learned to deal with them. 

The thing is, even if Firefox has whatever issues, 99% of them can at least be fixed or adjusted. I just made a tool that does this even faster than fiddling with about:config. With other browsers, you just can't. Their about:config versions are useless joke and you just can't even adjust anything even outside of official interface settings. Only exception is Vivaldi like I said which has tons of tweaks officially, but doesn't have iOS version at all so that's that. I absolutely need browser sync for bookmarks. When they release it one day, I'll check it out for sure. Built in adblocker and mouse gestures would certainly save me need for use of extra extensions even further.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

The thing is, even if Firefox has whatever issues, 99% of them can at least be fixed or adjusted. I just made a tool that does this even faster than fiddling with about:config. With other browsers, you just can't. Their about:config versions are useless joke and you just can't even adjust anything even outside of official interface settings. 

When I used Firefox I rarely changed things in about:config. It was either turning on experimental features (which you can do in Chromium browsers too) or a handful of minor tweaks. Do you have any examples of things you have changed in about:config? 

[goodtofufriday]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:12 AM, TimeOmnivore said:

Ironically, a large portion (75%-95%, depending on the year) of why Mozilla/Firefox is still in business is the deal they have with Google to make Google's search engine the default - $1.2 billion as of the most recent deal.

 

One of the main things Firefox does that nearly pushes me away is the constant redesigns that either break functionality or look awful. For example, in a recent update, they made bookmark folders take up nearly triple the vertical space they used to. A small annoyance, and one I eventually solved with about:config and CSS changes (which they also regularly break), but it's a frustrating, recurring problem that increasingly nearly drives me away. I still use Firefox and prefer it over Chrome, but Mozilla aren't doing themselves much of any favors, and I mainly stick with them out of spite for Chrome rather than a love for Firefox.

This is why I ditched ff back in like 2012. The constant updates just constantly break everything. Can't deal with that. 

Like tbf i had ff customized with looks and extensions, but it shouldn't just break without warning. 

[RejZoR]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

When I used Firefox I rarely changed things in about:config. It was either turning on experimental features (which you can do in Chromium browsers too) or a handful of minor tweaks. Do you have any examples of things you have changed in about:config? 

browser.urlbar.trimURLs

devtools.policy.disabled

extensions.pocket.enabled

extensions.screenshots.disabled

fission.autostart

security.secure_connection_icon_color_gray

browser.tabs.closeWindowWithLastTab

 

A mix of disabling whole interface things that I absolutely never need like devtools which get removed from Firefox entirely when disabled to smaller things like having green padlock for HTTPS sites instead of grey one. Or the last one which is what I hate with most browsers. Not closing the god damn browser when I close the last tab. If I'll want to close the damn browser I'll click the X in top right corner, not on tab.

 

But again, I rather do this through my Firefox Tweaker than about:config because I have nicely worded names and descriptions and can apply more of them easily than digging through about:config. And in the end it's all stuff I couldn't do in Chrome browsers. There is bunch more tweaks I use like changed disk cache size to WebRender and layers optimizations and other stuff.

 

[Awesome84]

On 8/5/2021 at 3:09 AM, Eviljuche said:

It's mostly Mozilla's own fault. All those controversial changes in Mozilla's policies (remember Mozilla VPN, huh?) and in the browser itself resulted in such enormous user runoff.

I, personally, switched to SeaMonkey which is literally the good old Firefox I knew and love.

What about PaleMoon?

[Tenelia]

So... I'm embarrassed to ask, but I've been using FF without knowing what's going on in the ecosystem. Can someone bring me up to speed?

[tridy]

What I observed that there are some quite big companies that adopt their websites to Chromium based browsers and either do not work with FF or warn to upgrade to a "modern" browser. I have seen some JS code the splits the code based on the type of the browser. There are some differences in the engines and some companies do not even bother testing on FF and when one tries to contact the support, they say if you have tried another browser. Some devs said that the debugging tools are better in Chrome/ium than Firefox but I do not know if this is still true or if it was just a personal opinion.

[MultiGamerClub]

I wouldnt use firefox if it wasnt for google chrome chrashing so often from errors in their latest version.. AND after 2 formats.. Fuck chrome.

[chrono76]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:42 PM, Tenelia said:

So... I'm embarrassed to ask, but I've been using FF without knowing what's going on in the ecosystem. Can someone bring me up to speed?

It is not  a big deal, Firefox is fine, you should still use it, I still do.
Mozilla has done some weird things but that does not mean that their products are inherently bad. And despite all of that I don't think Chrome and derivatives are worth it, seeing how Google is basically winning the whole Internet space

[divito]

Firefox has progressively gotten worse over time, so it's not surprising that they're losing users. They've made it slower, more cumbersome and the design has been rather unintuitive for several iterations. Mozilla has simply had a rough time with their direction since Chrome arrived on the scene.

I've typically experimented with new browsers when they arrive, and have been around a long time to see many changes. Many people don't realize how old Opera actually is, and it was decent in and of itself. Firefox was a breath of fresh air back in the day. I miss browsers like Flock, or going back to web design days of utilizing stuff like Amaya.

Currently, Vivaldi is my browser of choice simply for the rich feature set and customizability without the need to grab extensions or hack away at things individually; that was fine when I was younger, but my preferences and tastes have changed and the all-in-oneness of Vivaldi gives it a strong leg up versus pretty much all the competition right now.

[PineyCreek]

mmm...I hated IE from the start.  Used Netscape Navigator for forever, IE when I had to.  Started using Firefox somewhat early in its lifespan...haven't really used much else since.  Only use Chrome when I have to for certain functions at work.  Don't really have a reason to switch of Firefox, though with their redesign a few versions ago I almost got annoyed enough to start looking for other options. 

 

Also, aren't Opera an the new Edge both Chromium-based now?

 

I dunno...I kind of think that all browsers are fat and bloated now, so I just live with it.

[RejZoR]

I wrote something about Firefox... It's too long and detailed to write it again so here it is.

https://rejzor.wordpress.com/2021/08/21/why-firefox-is-still-a-great-browser-in-2021/

 

I don't know or care about developer perspective, but this is pure user perspective. It has things other browsers don't and that makes it a better option if you care about browser serving you and not the other way around.

[avg123]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I wrote something about Firefox... It's too long and detailed to write it again so here it is.

https://rejzor.wordpress.com/2021/08/21/why-firefox-is-still-a-great-browser-in-2021/

 

I don't know or care about developer perspective, but this is pure user perspective. It has things other browsers don't and that makes it a better option if you care about browser serving you and not the other way around.

name one extension that is more "polished" on firefox than on chrome

[chrono76]

5 hours ago, avg123 said:

name one extension that is more "polished" on firefox than on chrome

uBlock Origin, uMatrix, most privacy focused extensions work better.

We also have superior extensions that dont work on chrome, such as VimVixen, Firefox Containers and so

[divito]

11 hours ago, PineyCreek said:

Also, aren't Opera an the new Edge both Chromium-based now?

Almost everything is Chromium-based now. Sinking development time into a unique base simply isn't worthwhile.

[RejZoR]

53 minutes ago, divito said:

Almost everything is Chromium-based now. Sinking development time into a unique base simply isn't worthwhile.

But sinking it in yet another Chrome clone is?

[divito]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

But sinking it in yet another Chrome clone is?

They're just utilizing the base though. Plenty of Chromium-based browsers are actually implementing interesting and useable features that don't exist in other browsers. Just because they're using the codebase doesn't mean they're stopping at the basics. It simply allows them to use a tried-and-tested base that's fast and stable, and put their own ideas and spin onto it.
 

That's like saying people using the Unreal Engine are just making Unreal clones when they make their own game. It's just the base and platform to develop their own things onto.