Microsoft makes things worse: Windows 11 upgrade video blasted as being "tone deaf"

[Pyxlwuff]

Summary

After a month and a half of silence from Microsoft regarding any clarification for the System Requirements of its future OS, Windows 11, a liverstream (now unlisted) appeared on the Microsoft Tech Community YouTube channel that was meant

to answer questions about upgrade paths and deployment methods with Senior Program Manager Aria Carley. However the responses she made regarding Windows 11 and compatible hardware didn't rub off well with audiences (around the 6:20 minute mark) and it's reflected with the heavy like-dislike ratio. Comments called the video "tone-deaf" and others argued that the requirements were a "thinly veiled ploy to warrant fresh licence purchases alongside new machines for more revenue". The comments have since been completely disabled.

 

 

 

Quotes

Quote

Given that Windows 11 kicked off with widespread confusion over its TPM and hard floor hardware requirements, it was only a matter of time before Microsoft attempted to clarify its stance in response to consumers' queries and complaints about what was, and wasn't, required for Windows 11 upgrading eligibility. However, in attempting to answer consumers frankly, Microsoft seems to have angered a section of them even more. 

 

In the video, Microsoft employee Aria states that it "sucks" that some people aren't equipped with eligible devices, but points out how great Windows 11's requirements will be for those who are eligible, when it comes to what those requirements mean for security, productivity, and the overall experience.

 

Quote

"A lot of these answers come off as super tone deaf," the video's top comment reads. "It's looking like Windows 11 will be another Windows 8."

Others in the comments argued that Windows 11's requirements are a thinly veiled ploy to warrant fresh license purchases alongside new machines since free upgrades to existing computers won't earn Microsoft revenue.

 

Whatever Microsoft's stance is regarding how Windows 11 policies benefit consumers, it seemingly has not been clearly communicated to a sizeable portion of the company's primary audience, such as those who would watch Microsoft Tech Community YouTube videos.

 

My thoughts

While it's fine for those who are able to get a TPM module for their machine or have an OEM pre-built that has it already, for those who custom-build with perfectly capable machines, who until recently had never heard of such a chip which is suddenly being scalped for hundreds of dollars it's a massive kick in the stomach. While there are workarounds to get around the restrictions imposed by MS during the insider stages, there's no guarentee that these will continue to work later down the line nearer the release. Really does feel like we'll be sticking to the traditional release pattern of every other Windows version being a mess.

 

Sources

Windows 11 upgrade and deployment video gets blasted as being 'tone deaf' | Windows Central

 

[emosun]

Reminds me of nvidia releasing a gpu during a chip shortage basically begging people to buy it despite not manufacturing it...... Like what a strange hill to stand on.

Now microsoft basically doing the same making an incompatible OS for basically a handful of compatible machines.

[Pyxlwuff]

Just now, emosun said:

Reminds me of nvidia releasing a gpu during a chip shortage basically begging people to buy it despite not manufacturing it...... Like what a strange hill to stand on.

Now microsoft basically doing the same making an incompatible OS for basically a handful of compatible machines.

 

It's such a strange thing to suddenly require when they fully well know the world is still in a pandemic along with the current global chip shortage..

They'll say you can still use Windows 10 sure, but as we've seen with Windows 10 updates in the past what's stopping them from just slowly nuking performance forcing people into upgrades the good ol' planned obsolecence way?

[emosun]

1 minute ago, Pyxlwuff said:

what's stopping them from just slowly nuking performance forcing people into upgrades the good ol' planned obsolecence way?

well not much , luckly the community at large is capable of counteracting anything they can dish out obsolescence wise.

 

like.... can you beleive steam , games, chrome , firefox , all still get regular updates for windows 7? It's absolutely magical and I love it. lol

[Spotty]

5 minutes ago, Pyxlwuff said:

While it's fine for those who are able to get a TPM module for their machine or have an OEM pre-built that has it already, for those who custom-build with perfectly capable machines, who until recently had never heard of such a chip which is suddenly being scalped for hundreds of dollars it's a massive kick in the stomach.

You don't need a dedicated TPM. Intel's PTT and AMD's fTPM work fine. The problem is 'requiring' an 8th Gen Intel/AMD Zen+ or newer CPU (unless those requirements have changed since I've last paid attention to windows 11 news).

[AbydosOne]

13 minutes ago, Pyxlwuff said:

While it's fine for those who are able to get a TPM module for their machine or have an OEM pre-built that has it already, for those who custom-build with perfectly capable machines, who until recently had never heard of such a chip which is suddenly being scalped for hundreds of dollars it's a massive kick in the stomach. While there are workarounds to get around the restrictions imposed by MS during the insider stages, there's no guarentee that these will continue to work later down the line nearer the release. Really does feel like we'll be sticking to the traditional release pattern of every other Windows version being a mess.

This seems to have been covered to death, but...

 

(MOST) MODERN CPUs/CHIPSETS HAVE BUILT-IN TPMs.

 

It's uninformed consumers making runs on discrete modules.

[Pyxlwuff]

Just now, Spotty said:

The problem is 'requiring' an 8th Gen Intel/AMD Zen+ or newer CPU (unless those requirements have changed since I've last paid attention to windows 11 news).

Those haven't changed as far as i'm aware. Any feedback they're getting about Windows 11 running fine on anything else is probably getting conveniently thrown out lol

 

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

You don't need a dedicated TPM. Intel's PTT and AMD's fTPM work fine.

Some boards don't include this at all. Asus said to me I had to go buy a dedicated chip to stick on my board (which of course isn't in stock anywhere and being scalped like crazy because they weren't very mass produced anyway)

[Murasaki]

One or two small things isn't going to make me want to upgrade my hardware for a .1 release of the same OS. Sorry not sorry, M$FT.

I'll keep my "security, productivity, and the overall experience"  just fine with 10 thank you!

[linkboy]

It seems like MS is doing everything in their power to piss people off with this OS. They're going to kill the adoption rate of this OS before it even launches. People, especially in a time where the economy isn't the greatest and money is tight, aren't going to go out and buy a brand new computer just for a reskinned version of the OS their computer is currently running.

 

I get why MS is putting the emphasis on security by requiring things like VBS and HVCI (which is where the TPM and CPU requirements come from), but they're 100% taking the wrong approach with the current state of the world and it just boggles my mind that they're being so stubborn about it.

 

The narrative around Windows 11 isn't going to be about it's increase in security (like MS wants it to be), it's going to be out how MS is basically forcing you to buy a new computer to upgrade to it. Once that narrative is in place, it's not going to change, no matter how much MS talks up the OS.

 

We know it's not due to performance. I'm running the beta on a Thinkpad P50 with a 2.6ghz 6th gen Intel 6700HQ and the OS runs perfectly fine. I haven't had any issues with it. I've got no plans to replace this computer anytime soon because, honestly, it's way more computer then I actually need, but I wanted a computer that I could upgrade the RAM and SSD/HDD.

 

MS can tout all these security features all they want, but if people aren't upgrading to Windows 11 and sticking with Windows 10, then the security features being enabled are basically useless. 

 

The fact that MS is still selling the Surface Studio 2 right now for $3,500 (base) and it won't be able to run Windows 11 due to it having a 7th gen Intel is so absurdly stupid and tone deaf that it's mind boggling. It's two months before the OS is set to release and they're still selling that computer to people that won't be able to run their latest OS.

 

[Lurick]

27 minutes ago, Pyxlwuff said:

Those haven't changed as far as i'm aware. Any feedback they're getting about Windows 11 running fine on anything else is probably getting conveniently thrown out lol

 

Some boards don't include this at all. Asus said to me I had to go buy a dedicated chip to stick on my board (which of course isn't in stock anywhere and being scalped like crazy because they weren't very mass produced anyway)

What board/CPU? Because I've got an x570 board with Ryzen 5000 CPU and used fTPM without issue.

[Pyxlwuff]

2 minutes ago, Lurick said:

What board/CPU? Because I've got an x570 board with Ryzen 5000 CPU and used fTPM without issue.

Core i5 6600K on an Asus B150-M-CD3.

Works completely fine on the insider builds and have had no stability issues at all lol

 

My Surface Pro 4 is also touted as incompatible and that has TPM 2.0 and also runs insider builds completely fine. 

[Lurick]

Just now, Pyxlwuff said:

Core i5 6600K on an Asus B150-M-CD3.

Works completely fine on the insider builds and have had no stability issues at all lol

 

My Surface Pro 4 is also touted as incompatible and that has TPM 2.0 and also runs insider builds completely fine. 

Did you enable it in BIOS on both though? I know that's something a lot of people miss so just making sure

[Pyxlwuff]

Just now, Lurick said:

Did you enable it in BIOS on both though? I know that's something a lot of people miss so just making sure

 

I went over the entire BIOS multiple times and no such option to enable an fTPM exists, even if it's supposedly meant to be in the CPU / chipset i'm rocking. Their twitter helpline just told me to buy a chip to put on the header instead (which is very optimistic given the current chip climate)

 

[Chris Pratt]

1 hour ago, Pyxlwuff said:

While it's fine for those who are able to get a TPM module for their machine or have an OEM pre-built that has it already, for those who custom-build with perfectly capable machines, who until recently had never heard of such a chip which is suddenly being scalped for hundreds of dollars it's a massive kick in the stomach.

You don't need a dedicated module. You can just eable fTPM in the BIOS for virtually any modern CPU. Microsoft could have definitely done a better job at conveying the requirements, but it's not worth all the hay people are making over it.

[linkboy]

5 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

You don't need a dedicated module. You can just eable fTPM in the BIOS for virtually any modern CPU. Microsoft could have definitely done a better job at conveying the requirements, but it's not worth all the hay people are making over it.

TPM is only a part of it. 6th and 7th gen intel CPUs have TPM 2.0, but aren't eligible to upgrade to Windows 11 because of the VBS and HVCI requirements (for improvements in security) , even though the OS runs perfectly fine on the CPUs since MS isn't enforcing the CPU requirements during the beta period. 

 

People aren't going to go out and buy a new computer for Windows 11, they're going to stick with Windows 10, which makes the security improvements for Windows 11 pretty much useless.

[RejZoR]

Windows 11 is what I'd call an "arbitrary rollercoaster of bullshit racing at supersonic speeds".

 

It brings bunch of improvements that will benefit no one because no one with said systems that would benefit from it can even install Windows 11. I have ASUS Transformer tablet which would benefit greatly from Windows 11 touch improvements, yet won't be compatible because of bunch of BS arbitrary restrictions even though it's essentially Windows 10. My rather recent laptop with Ryzen 5 2500U won't be supported even though it has TPM 2.0 and it's more than capable compute wise. Because reasons and bunch of obscure CPU extensions. Only my main desktop bought in december 2020 will be eligible for it. Yay I guess.

[JZStudios]

1 hour ago, Pyxlwuff said:

What's stopping them from just slowly nuking performance forcing people into upgrades the good ol' planned obsolecence way?

A class action lawsuit. I mean, that's after the fact though.

 

1 hour ago, linkboy said:

I get why MS is putting the emphasis on security by requiring things like VBS and HVCI (which is where the TPM and CPU requirements come from), but they're 100% taking the wrong approach with the current state of the world and it just boggles my mind that they're being so stubborn about it.

So what exactly is the requirement and for what purpose? It's not like they're phasing out 32 bit support or doing something completely new.

[TetraSky]

Windows 10 is supported until 2025. What are they complaining about. No one is forcing anyone to upgrading on day one.

Machines older than 4 years today not being compatible with Windows 11 shouldn't be an issue, as  incompatible PC will be at the bare minimum, in 2025, at least 9 years old. We have people with 10 year old machines today complaining about this. Their computers will be 15 years old. It's time for an upgrade at that point. Sorry not sorry.

I get people wanting to keep using their old computers because buying new ones is expensive, especially if they don't really use them for anything more than web browsing. But at one point or another, old and antiquated machines are no longer worth being supported. Be it from a security standpoint, to a compatibility one (and monetary, obviously).

Also, as a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if the same people complaining about this, are upgrading their phones every two years or whenever their current phone is fully paid off, then they hop onto the next one with their carrier.

 

It's insane to assume Microsoft should just keep offering support for these old computers when even manufacturers of these parts and machines are likely not going to be supporting them anymore with drivers. Like Nvidia dropping support for GPUs older than 2013 recently, which they will likely extend to the 900 series next year and the 1000 series in like 3 years.

I'm ok with Microsoft not supporting older hardware just for the sake of this stupid TPM thing. Just wish they'd trim down the OS from a lot of legacy stuff that's bloating it up too, or at least make it an optional download.

 

And there's always Linux for people who fear the scary message that says their computer is "unsafe" in 2025 because Win10 is EOL.

 

18 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

It's not like they're phasing out 32 bit support or doing something completely new.

Pretty sure they ARE dropping 32bit support though.

https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11/

 

Even if the current beta has 32bit ISOs for testing (not sure, didn't check), the final release is set to not have 32bit support according to all info available.

[RejZoR]

12 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

A class action lawsuit. I mean, that's after the fact though.

 

So what exactly is the requirement and for what purpose? It's not like they're phasing out 32 bit support or doing something completely new.

No, they are phasing out 90% of 64bit processors lol

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, linkboy said:

TPM is only a part of it. 6th and 7th gen intel CPUs have TPM 2.0, but aren't eligible to upgrade to Windows 11 because of the VBS and HVCI requirements (for improvements in security) , even though the OS runs perfectly fine on the CPUs since MS isn't enforcing the CPU requirements during the beta period. 

 

People aren't going to go out and buy a new computer for Windows 11, they're going to stick with Windows 10, which makes the security improvements for Windows 11 pretty much useless.

^THIS!

 

8th Gen Intel and Zen+ have MBEC / GMET for enhanced performance with HVCI requirements. It's optional with Windows 10 to have HVCI enabled, but Windows 11 makes it mandatory.

 

Windows 11 is about raising the bar in OS security, not performance.

[RejZoR]

4 minutes ago, StDragon said:

^THIS!

 

8th Gen Intel and Zen+ have MBEC / GMET for enhanced performance with HVCI requirements. It's optional with Windows 10 to have HVCI enabled, but Windows 11 makes it mandatory.

 

Windows 11 is about raising the bar in OS security, not performance.

Can't hack systems if they can't run the OS at all lmao.

[SolarNova]

2 hours ago, Pyxlwuff said:

Really does feel like we'll be sticking to the traditional release pattern of every other Windows version being a mess.

Not really. At release...

8.0 was bad

8.1 was arguably good

10 was bad

So W11 'should' be good if that cycle was a thing

 

The more MS put these silly restrictions in and the more they turn their OS into a software bundle of unwanted/needed programs and features...and advertisements...the more they will push people to other OS platforms, and the more likely scenario ..to 'acquire' a custom W10/11 OS 'elsewhere'.

[StDragon]

Just now, RejZoR said:

Can't hack systems if they can't run the OS at all lmao.

If you enable TPM 2.0 along with 'Memory Isolation' (subset of Core Isolation) and Secure Boot, you're pretty much at parity with Windows 11 in terms of OS security. If you have an 8th gen or Zen+ or newer, you should enable these anyways with 10.

[Fasterthannothing]

No no see you don't understand. It's not tone deaf it's just that money from Intel is screaming louder. You see Intel's new chips have TPM modules built in therefore they are magically compatible. Now technically AMD also has it but it's rarely enabled unlike Intel who now pride themselves on this feature (obviously because they will now get a boatload of new customers).

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, Pyxlwuff said:

Core i5 6600K on an Asus

Doesnt really matter what Asus told you (who's cs is known to be clueless anyway) this is not a 8th gen chip = no win 11 support (as of now)