Ryzen 5700G Already Being Marked WAY UP.

[Uttamattamakin]

Summary

Before launch certain non US retailers such as PC Canada, PC Componentes (Spain), and PC21.FR (France) have it up for pre sales. 

 

The following quote is based on older information. 

 

Quotes

Quote

Thus far, the highest price that we've seen for the Ryzen 7 5700G is at $422 over in Canada, 18% higher than the MSRP. Surprisingly, pricing is better over at Europe where the markup is less than 10% before value-added tax (VAT). The Ryzen 5 5600G may cost up to 17% more expensive in Canada. On the contrary, the same chip could debut with a 10% higher price tag in Europe.

 

My thoughts

This makes no sense at all.  At over 400 USD it would be better to just buy a full pre built and swap the processors and then get a custom PC with the config and cooling etc so that the R7 5700G can really perform, and a secondary PC that can be used for other things.   Conversely, if one really does not care about graphics and will just muddle through with a GT 1030 or a second hand 10 series GPU get the Ryzen 5800X.  At 400USD this is not worth it unless one has a really specific need for AMD graphics but does not have either the slots or the budget for an AMD dGPU.  

Since I built my custom computer on Mini ITX and I do have a need for AMD graphics this makes sense for me.  Ideally I would use it to host linux and guest Windows in a QEMU VM with a Nvidia dGPU.  So it might be worth lining up at a Microcenter or Best buy for it. 

 

Sources

AMD's Ryzen 5000G Cezanne APUs Could Land With A Small Premium | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

[thechinchinsong]

I wonder how this compares to prices from 3000 series G processors from AMD. Their Ryzen APUs have always seemed to be in rather low supply and I imagine the global supply chain problems coupled with overall chip shortages and scalping haven't helped. I vaguely remember that the R5 3400G was also mostly in a similar situation for most of it's lifetime, especially in markets outside of the US (but maybe thats just me misremembering).

[svmlegacy]

The free market will determine the pricing. It'll only stay at that price if people continue to buy up supply.

[Fasterthannothing]

That's the price of an entire steam deck and I bet the performance will be similar since it has rdna2 and ddr5. 

[Castdeath97]

Chip shortages go brr

[Ydfhlx]

5 hours ago, SlidewaysZ said:

That's the price of an entire steam deck and I bet the performance will be similar since it has rdna2 and ddr5. 

If Steam Deck won't cost more than expected as well

[Uttamattamakin]

7 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

I wonder how this compares to prices from 3000 series G processors from AMD. Their Ryzen APUs have always seemed to be in rather low supply and I imagine the global supply chain problems coupled with overall chip shortages and scalping haven't helped. I vaguely remember that the R5 3400G was also mostly in a similar situation for most of it's lifetime, especially in markets outside of the US (but maybe thats just me misremembering).

The Ryzen 3200G and 3400G are hard to compare to the 5700G and 5600G for a lot of reasons. 

The 3400G  has 4C 8T  and the  3200G has 4C 4T

The 5700G has 8C 16T and the 5600G 6C12 T  

The 5700G (and 5800X really) are high-mid range parts  After them is the 5900 and 5900X baby Threadripper CPU's.  

 

1 hour ago, Benji said:

What makes you think that the performance of a Vega 8 with DDR4 can compete with an 8-cluster RDNA2 chip coupled to LPDDR5 RAM? I'd think that the 5700G stands no real chance in the graphics department, but we'll see. The disadvantage in the Steam Deck is the fact that it only has a quad-core Zen 2 chip as opposed to the octa-core Zen 3 with a significantly higher power budget.

The 5700G stands no chance  against an APU with RDNA2 in terms of graphics.  However in the PC space it need to compete with that.  Basically it just has to be the ultimate expression of a socket AM4 APU.  The last of the dinosaurs before AM5 comes out. PLUS it can be paired with a dGPU and having two GPU's in a computer opens up possibilities and flexibilities.  

 

[Fasterthannothing]

2 hours ago, Ydfhlx said:

If Steam Deck won't cost more than expected as well

You can literally get one for MSRP right now if your willing to pre order.

[AlTech]

2 hours ago, Benji said:

What makes you think that the performance of a Vega 8 with DDR4 can compete with an 8-cluster RDNA2 chip coupled to LPDDR5 RAM? I'd think that the 5700G stands no real chance in the graphics department, but we'll see.

The main advantage the 5700G's graphics have is clockspeed and maturity of Vega 2.0 drivers.

Quote

The disadvantage in the Steam Deck is the fact that it only has a quad-core Zen 2 chip as opposed to the octa-core Zen 3 with a significantly higher power budget.

This is why the real competitor to the Steam Deck's Van Gogh APU is 5700U or 5800U. In those cases the CPU is still stronger at the cost of presumably a much weaker GPU.

 

This trade off was unfortunately necessary because RDNA CUs take up about twice the space of Vega 1.0 and Vega 2.0 CUs.

[Fasterthannothing]

2 hours ago, Benji said:

What makes you think that the performance of a Vega 8 with DDR4 can compete with an 8-cluster RDNA2 chip coupled to LPDDR5 RAM? I'd think that the 5700G stands no real chance in the graphics department, but we'll see. The disadvantage in the Steam Deck is the fact that it only has a quad-core Zen 2 chip as opposed to the octa-core Zen 3 with a significantly higher power budget.

I should have said bare minimum. But yes the steam deck will have plenty of power.

[FRD]

I never understood why Ryzen APUs always seem so high priced, it's like they are more rare than normal Ryzens, even before the chip shortage.

At the time I got my 3400G for a pretty good deal (under $150). Since then I've never seen them at that price anymore and just go up, even $300 at some point. Same happened to the 3200G that was stable at $100 and since then always has been $120 or more until today.

The 2400G wasn't that popular, yet still marked up in price when new.

Now with the new Ryzen APUs, you would think the older APUs would drop in price, but they don't or just barely.

[WolframaticAlpha]

11 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Summary

Before launch certain non US retailers such as PC Canada, PC Componentes (Spain), and PC21.FR (France) have it up for pre sales. 

 

The following quote is based on older information. 

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

This makes no sense at all.  At over 400 USD it would be better to just buy a full pre built and swap the processors and then get a custom PC with the config and cooling etc so that the R7 5700G can really perform, and a secondary PC that can be used for other things.   Conversely, if one really does not care about graphics and will just muddle through with a GT 1030 or a second hand 10 series GPU get the Ryzen 5800X.  At 400USD this is not worth it unless one has a really specific need for AMD graphics but does not have either the slots or the budget for an AMD dGPU.  

Since I built my custom computer on Mini ITX and I do have a need for AMD graphics this makes sense for me.  Ideally I would use it to host linux and guest Windows in a QEMU VM with a Nvidia dGPU.  So it might be worth lining up at a Microcenter or Best buy for it. 

 

Sources

AMD's Ryzen 5000G Cezanne APUs Could Land With A Small Premium | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

Is this even news now?

[Doobeedoo]

I'd expect with time they'd really focus on much faster iGPU in the future, not in sense of just tech improvements but in general die wise size, like current consoles have as example.

[Freakwise]

25 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

I'd expect with time they'd really focus on much faster iGPU in the future, not in sense of just tech improvements but in general die wise size, like current consoles have as example.

i guess they could do like what intel done couples years ago on their " one of" intel nuc where they have i7 something-something and custom vega gpu in the same substrate, i think it was this vid

 

 

[Uttamattamakin]

2 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Is this even news now?

YES

 

1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

I'd expect with time they'd really focus on much faster iGPU in the future, not in sense of just tech improvements but in general die wise size, like current consoles have as example.

If you are AMD a concern would be canibalizing low end GPU sales if the APU's are too good with graphics.  APU graphics will be worse than whatever the low end GPU is able to do.  However, given time that Low end GPU will still be so powerful that an APU will be enough for 75-95 percent of gamers. 

 

1 hour ago, Freakwise said:

i guess they could do like what intel done couples years ago on their " one of" intel nuc where they have i7 something-something and custom vega gpu in the same substrate, i think it was this vid

 

 

Ah yes the Hades Canyon NUC.  That was an awesome product.  I'd love to see the abomination of an AMD CPU ... on the same package as ... NVIDIA graphics.  That will NEVER happen.  If it did it would kill Intel forever. 

[Freakwise]

11 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

I'd love to see the abomination of an AMD CPU ... on the same package as ... NVIDIA graphics.  That will NEVER happen.  If it did it would kill Intel forever. 

Well, what i had in mind is that, since the 5700g is single ccx (or from what I heard is) and so probably the next gen APU (hopefully), wouldn't it be nice if those "blank" space that "usually" get filled with other ccx is now filled with an rdna2 or whatever other gpu amd had in mind?

 

Yeah, I know it's sounds ridiculous and stupid

[Brooksie359]

13 hours ago, Benji said:

What makes you think that the performance of a Vega 8 with DDR4 can compete with an 8-cluster RDNA2 chip coupled to LPDDR5 RAM? I'd think that the 5700G stands no real chance in the graphics department, but we'll see. The disadvantage in the Steam Deck is the fact that it only has a quad-core Zen 2 chip as opposed to the octa-core Zen 3 with a significantly higher power budget.

Tbh I don't see why people think that this is supposed to be something like a stand alone console or something. It's just an apu more targeted for people who don't need a dedicated gpu. If you are expecting dedicated gpu performance out of this I think you will be sorely disappointed. 

[Ydfhlx]

11 hours ago, SlidewaysZ said:

You can literally get one for MSRP right now if your willing to pre order.

You can only pre order, as you said. There is no guarantee preorders will be sent quickly, if at all. Some guys that preordered GPUs had to wait months only for the order to get cancelled.

[Zodiark1593]

6 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

YES

 

If you are AMD a concern would be canibalizing low end GPU sales if the APU's are too good with graphics.  APU graphics will be worse than whatever the low end GPU is able to do.  However, given time that Low end GPU will still be so powerful that an APU will be enough for 75-95 percent of gamers. 

 

. 

 

Game requirements, namely AAA titles, increase in complexity over time, and more recently, the trend seems to have accelerated with the introduction of ray tracing. 
 

Additionally, we’ll hit the limits of silicon at some point. In lieu of a new technology, improvements will come from scaling up to match the ever-increasing demand of games.  Especially as 4K becomes the norm, and we start pushing for higher refresh rates, and even 8K in the years to come. The most cost effective means of scaling up is through the use of off-board coprocessors, namely dedicated GPUs. If anything, it’s in my opinion that there’s a greater chance of being forced to utilize multi-GPU setups to sustain further graphical improvements rather than settling on integrated solutions in perpetuity. 

[Tenelia]

I'd been building HTPCs that run with the noctua NH-L12S. The 3400G was enough for mainstream titles like CSGO, DOTA, etc. The only issues come from games that need multithreading due to netcode complexity (fortnite, warframe, etc) or higher graphic thresholds. If you folk over in the west can't get your hands on GPUs at a reasonable price, then I don't think we'll be getting anything in this part of asia for at least ten years.

[schwellmo92]

On 7/24/2021 at 4:48 PM, Benji said:

What makes you think that the performance of a Vega 8 with DDR4 can compete with an 8-cluster RDNA2 chip coupled to LPDDR5 RAM? I'd think that the 5700G stands no real chance in the graphics department, but we'll see. The disadvantage in the Steam Deck is the fact that it only has a quad-core Zen 2 chip as opposed to the octa-core Zen 3 with a significantly higher power budget.

Graphics performance should be pretty close, the 5700G has a much higher power budget which is reflected in the difference in GPU clocks (1-1.6 vs 2ghz).

[Uttamattamakin]

On 7/25/2021 at 1:47 AM, Tenelia said:

I'd been building HTPCs that run with the noctua NH-L12S. The 3400G was enough for mainstream titles like CSGO, DOTA, etc. The only issues come from games that need multithreading due to netcode complexity (fortnite, warframe, etc) or higher graphic thresholds. If you folk over in the west can't get your hands on GPUs at a reasonable price, then I don't think we'll be getting anything in this part of asia for at least ten years.

Sad but true.  GPU's are basically impossible to find unless one is willing to go for the VERY high end.  That said... the thought here in the west is that GPU production was being bought up by cryptominers in Asia right at the sources.  So who knows maybe if you have the funds you can grab some 30 series cards and sell em to us? 

[Uttamattamakin]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:11 PM, Zodiark1593 said:

 

Game requirements, namely AAA titles, increase in complexity over time, and more recently, the trend seems to have accelerated with the introduction of ray tracing. 
 

Additionally, we’ll hit the limits of silicon at some point. In lieu of a new technology, improvements will come from scaling up to match the ever-increasing demand of games.  Especially as 4K becomes the norm, and we start pushing for higher refresh rates, and even 8K in the years to come. The most cost effective means of scaling up is through the use of off-board coprocessors, namely dedicated GPUs. If anything, it’s in my opinion that there’s a greater chance of being forced to utilize multi-GPU setups to sustain further graphical improvements rather than settling on integrated solutions in perpetuity. 

Think of the great number of people right now who are very happy to play DOTA Fornite and GTA V.  In five years todays AAA titles will be old hat and the APUs of that time will be RNDA 3. 

[Tenelia]

1 hour ago, Uttamattamakin said:

-snip-the thought here in the west is that GPU production was being bought up by cryptominers in Asia right at the sources.  -snip-

AFAIK from speaking to OEMs and the manufacturer (AMD, NVIDIA), they've got restrictions on how GPUs can be sold:

1) Anything more than 2 per customer (per credit card used) has to go to a distributor or approved retail partner.

2) OEM allocations should maintain the same proportion allocation.

 

These are the two restrictions I can confirm exist, so my deduction is that miners have developed entire processes to get around the limits here. The usual retailers around southeast asia have put us all on a 3-month waiting list, and that's if they get stock too...

[Uttamattamakin]

4 hours ago, Tenelia said:

AFAIK from speaking to OEMs and the manufacturer (AMD, NVIDIA), they've got restrictions on how GPUs can be sold:

1) Anything more than 2 per customer (per credit card used) has to go to a distributor or approved retail partner.

2) OEM allocations should maintain the same proportion allocation.

 

These are the two restrictions I can confirm exist, so my deduction is that miners have developed entire processes to get around the limits here. The usual retailers around southeast asia have put us all on a 3-month waiting list, and that's if they get stock too...

Yeah... I mean I wouldn't put it past the people running the factories to be in on this.  It's one thing for cards to be expenseive.  It is another when they basically don't exist for anyone anywhere.  

Lets hope the APU's aren't the same story.