Windows needs to stop trying to be Mac OS

[Intoxicus]

I'm too simple for Linux and too complicated for a Mac.

Windows needs to be a sweet middle ground for Not Quite Power Users like myself.

I want the feeling like I know what I'm doing without actually having to truly become an expert in the OS.
I want to be able to tweak my OS and break it at my will.
Stop trying to protect me from myself Microsoft.

Also stop trying to be an OS for both desktop and mobile all in one.
Who even uses Windows for tablets? Your mom?
There's those Surface things I guess?

At the end of the day I'm a Gamer, bro.
I want my shiny RTX reflections so I can watch me bang your mom in those glorious Ray Traced Reflections.

I don't need mandated centered Start Menus.
I don't need simplification.

I need customization and options.
Give me choice.
Give me agency.
I can follow a guide that tells me exactly what registry entry to change, and still get it wrong.
So let me do whatever the hell I want to my OS I didn't pay for.

And don't treat me like a Mac user. 
I'm using Windows because PCMR, all day, every day.

________

Sarcasm and flippantry aside as much as I kinda get why Microsoft keeps trying to make Windows more like Mac OS I also hate that they keep doing that.

Truly I feel like I am losing my middle ground between Mac and Linux with the way Windows keeps dumbing down in the belief it will bring people from Mac back to Windows.

Like Epic and others I say the same: Don't try and rely on tricks and gimmicks. Make a quality product that solves problems for people.
Nothing about Windows 11 explicitly solves anything I've had issue with on Windows 10.

If anything Windows needs to be more like Windows again. In that middle ground sense.

If there was a "Power User Mode" that turned off the hand holding annoyances I would not have much to complain about.

I *want* to like Windows 11. I truly do. 

But so far it leaves me skeptical and doubt filled.

Serisouly, I have to change a registry entry to have a uncentered start menu?
How about options instead of forcing on us what they think is best for us.
Which is indicative of the problem I have with modern Windows.

*Don't decide for me, let me choose.*

[WkdPaul]

* your thread was moved to the Windows section, please always post in the appropriate section *

[da na]

Are you an 8 year old playing COD? You used 'your mom' more than every thread I've ever seen on this forum combined.

[kelvinhall05]

9 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

*Don't decide for me, let me choose.*

Nobody is forcing you to use anything, lmao. Windows 10 still has support until 2025 and, as much as you shit on them in your post, you can always switch to MacOS or Linux.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

15 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

Who even uses Windows for tablets? Your mom?
There's those Surface things I guess?

The 2in1 market is huge. There's no point in having a 2 in 1 if you have to reboot constantly when you switch modes.
 

 

15 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

I don't need mandated centered Start Menus.

It's not. It moves to the left of you sort the taskbar to left.
 

15 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

Sarcasm and flippantry aside as much as I kinda get why Microsoft keeps trying to make Windows more like Mac OS I also hate that they keep doing that.

People keep saying this, but I don't get it.
Just because the taskbar and start menu are center to start with, or because they want it to be ealisy usuable for the vast majority of their users does not mean it's made like macos. To be honest, it looks more like chromeos than MacOs.

 

 

 

 

 

You need to remember that the majority of windows users do not know how to do a lot of stuff, even like using control pannel, it's why the settings app is a thing.

The majority of people don't know how to use a 3rd party app store, or don't want to deal with Downloading all of their apps manually. It's why the MS store exists.

 

Because at the end of the day, most people will never know as much about computers as most people here do. And it's Microsoft's job to make a product for the general public

 

 

Also, if you don't like 11, use 10 for 5 more years.

Or use Linux mint.

[Guest]

What?

[Freakwise]

31 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

Who even uses Windows for tablets? Your mom?

Nothing but there's 2 in 1 and that was basically a tablet

33 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

I want to be able to tweak my OS and break it at my will.

Linux

34 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

need customization and options.
Give me choice.
Give me agency.
I can follow a guide that tells me exactly what registry entry to change, and still get it wrong.
So let me do whatever the hell I want to my OS I didn't pay for.

Linux

34 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

*Don't decide for me, let me choose.*

Linux

 

if you don't "want" the win 11 then just don't install the damn thing, easy, as simple as that

 

Nobody force you to do it, fbi will not knocked on your door and arrest you if you decided to stay with win 10 even after 2025...

44 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

 

 

[MartinTheActor]

18 minutes ago, Freakwise said:

Nothing but there's 2 in 1 and that was basically a tablet

Linux

Linux

Linux

 

if you don't "want" the win 11 then just don't install the damn thing, easy, as simple as that

 

Nobody force you to do it, fbi will not knocked on your door and arrest you if you decided to stay with win 10 even after 2025...

 

Okay, so just shouting LINUX isn't a good solution here. I run Windows on my main rig (with a couple of VMs for older OS). I also have a second rig (made of all my older components) on which I have Linux and Windows dual booting. On my laptop I have actually tried to daily drive Linux.

I've tried distro after distro, and the problem is Linux is limiting. Your choices, like it or not are limited by using Linux. There's always some program or feature that I want to use and inevitably is either unwilling to work with Wine (or similar), or requires you to go through an extensive list of things in the console to get up and running, which even then usually fails. I would love to be using Linux all the time. I really like Mint, I think it works really well and is pretty user friendly. I even got my Nan using Ubuntu when her laptop when hinky and I needed a stopgap because windows wouldn't activate on her new hard drive. I've tried Pop OS, I've tried Clear, I've tried Arch, I've tried Puppy, I've tried Solus. I can see the benefits of Linux, but I also see the real world disadvantages. I've not yet come across a Linux distro that after two months of daily driving I could stick with.

Now, I'm sure I'm missing something and lack knowledge of Linux. The point here is that I have tried and tried with a lot of linux distros and ultimately, it just doesn't stand up to the hype for me. Linux diehards always seem to hail it as an obvious answer. For some of us out here, it's not. Pretending Linux is the solution for every just isn't a good response I'm sorry.

-----------

As to the OP's post, I disagree with your phrasing and can see a purpose for a lot of the features. I do, however, agree with the conclusion. I actually thing LTT, Linus and Luke on WAN show, got some stuff hinky when looking at things. The last time Microsoft tried to appeal to the Macs OS users out there (which I do think they're trying to do), we ended up with Windows 8, Windows RT and the Surface Tablet. At the time I actually remember thinking that if Windows 8 were kept as a Tablet/2in1 version of windows and not rolled out at large, it was a fairly decent system. It just wasn't going to work for the everyday user. I have major concerns about Windows 11, and just can't see a reason for it looking like a good upgrade. Maybe it's the cynic in me, but Windows 11 just looks pointless to me if it is intended to replace, or eventually overtake Windows 10. It's where I honestly think Microsoft have missed the point. Apple have it right developing separate platforms for mobile and desktop platforms. Ultimately, I fear that the major issue is user expectation. Any time Microsoft release a version of Windows there are user expectations. Apple had no such similar issues when launching the iPad and iOS to a larger user pool. They marketed it well as essentially, a bigger version of an iPhone without the calling features. 

Maybe I'm getting it all wrong, but I do think Microsoft are too keen to appeal to Mac users. 

[Intoxicus]

 

3 hours ago, Mel0nMan said:

Are you an 8 year old playing COD? You used 'your mom' more than every thread I've ever seen on this forum combined.

The joke clearly went over your head son...

[da na]

40 minutes ago, Intoxicus said:

 

The joke clearly went over your head son...

Pretty sure that goes both ways.

[KaitouX]

3 hours ago, MartinTheActor said:

Okay, so just shouting LINUX isn't a good solution here. I run Windows on my main rig (with a couple of VMs for older OS). I also have a second rig (made of all my older components) on which I have Linux and Windows dual booting. On my laptop I have actually tried to daily drive Linux.

I've tried distro after distro, and the problem is Linux is limiting. Your choices, like it or not are limited by using Linux. There's always some program or feature that I want to use and inevitably is either unwilling to work with Wine (or similar), or requires you to go through an extensive list of things in the console to get up and running, which even then usually fails. I would love to be using Linux all the time. I really like Mint, I think it works really well and is pretty user friendly. I even got my Nan using Ubuntu when her laptop when hinky and I needed a stopgap because windows wouldn't activate on her new hard drive. I've tried Pop OS, I've tried Clear, I've tried Arch, I've tried Puppy, I've tried Solus. I can see the benefits of Linux, but I also see the real world disadvantages. I've not yet come across a Linux distro that after two months of daily driving I could stick with.

Now, I'm sure I'm missing something and lack knowledge of Linux. The point here is that I have tried and tried with a lot of linux distros and ultimately, it just doesn't stand up to the hype for me. Linux diehards always seem to hail it as an obvious answer. For some of us out here, it's not. Pretending Linux is the solution for every just isn't a good response I'm sorry.

The biggest issue with Linux is and always have been software compatibility. Now days most software have decent/good alternatives on Linux, but if you require a specific software like something from Adobe or some software that does something that alternatives can't like Clip Studio Paint for example, you usually will be stuck on Windows to get them working well. Also games, even though Linux gaming is much better today than it was in the past, there still are plenty of games that will only run or run (much) better on Windows.

[MartinTheActor]

6 hours ago, KaitouX said:

The biggest issue with Linux is and always have been software compatibility. Now days most software have decent/good alternatives on Linux, but if you require a specific software like something from Adobe or some software that does something that alternatives can't like Clip Studio Paint for example, you usually will be stuck on Windows to get them working well. Also games, even though Linux gaming is much better today than it was in the past, there still are plenty of games that will only run or run (much) better on Windows.

I think it may even be deeper than that. Think about what most children have been brought up on. How many schools actually teach IT (or computer science) and give the opportunities for pupils to learn more than just whatever systems the school has. I've heard horror stories here in the UK of schools demanding children use iPhones to be able access educational apps (usually due to poor teacher training), thus costing parents more than needed. Either way, the point is that schools just aren't equipped to expose people to different methods of working. That means it'd be entirely down to the companies they work for.  

 

In my industry for example so many sound and lighting engineers demand that Mac's get used because they simply don't know any other way. There are many better options than industry standard softwares and workflows, but like it or not, they exist for a reason. The financial and time expenses just make it impossible. That's how software, and ultimately equipment becomes required.

 

I won't lie though, some of the alternatives I've seen on Linux are amazing and maybe even better than the mainstream choice. It's a bit like Zoom. Zoom isn't the best solution for many uses, but it somehow became standard and a worldwide term like Googling or Skyping. Makes me feel sorry for the developers of the better options.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

I mean, there's nothing we can really do. In a situation of a complete monopoly of Microsoft at the desktop OS market, voting with your wallet is not an option. Linux will always be lacking in one way or another, and MacOS or ChromeOS experience will be even worse in this regard. If you're a US citizen, you may write a letter to FTC or your representative on why the hell they're not doing anything to open up the competition in the OS market  but it's a different story.

[m9x3mos]

1 hour ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

I mean, there's nothing we can really do. In a situation of a complete monopoly of Microsoft at the desktop OS market, voting with your wallet is not an option. Linux will always be lacking in one way or another, and MacOS or ChromeOS experience will be even worse in this regard. If you're a US citizen, you may write a letter to FTC or your representative on why the hell they're not doing anything to open up the competition in the OS market  but it's a different story.

I am not sure what legislation can do to change the os market really. 

Consumers have choice in which os they use and can but Systems with their choice freely already. The problem really comes down to software support and what you need. Unless they can carve out some incentive for a viable Linux alternative with developers getting in board to make their apps run on it, not sure how that would be done. 

Let alone the Grey hairs in our legislation don't understand tech, I don't trust them to do anything. 

[cretsiah]

Windows 11 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Windows 10 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

windows 10 wont even install on my ryzen 5 3400g system ...... " Oops we have run into an error we will restart your computer " loop

windows 10 has given me NO choice but to install another Operating System

 

which is quite frankly fine by me,

 

no  more BSODs

no more failed updates

 

finally at peace

[Alexeygridnev1993]

1 hour ago, m9x3mos said:

I am not sure what legislation can do to change the os market really. 

Consumers have choice in which os they use and can but Systems with their choice freely already. The problem really comes down to software support and what you need. Unless they can carve out some incentive for a viable Linux alternative with developers getting in board to make their apps run on it, not sure how that would be done. 

Let alone the Grey hairs in our legislation don't understand tech, I don't trust them to do anything. 

This legislation already exists since late XIX century. It's called anti-trust legislation. The problem is, it hasn't been properly implemented since the 1980s, otherwise, all your Apples, Googles, and Microsofts of this world would have been cut into pieces, like Standard Oil was, and they would never be allowed to create "ecosystems" which lock users down to their platforms.

[m9x3mos]

3 hours ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

This legislation already exists since late XIX century. It's called anti-trust legislation. The problem is, it hasn't been properly implemented since the 1980s, otherwise, all your Apples, Googles, and Microsofts of this world would have been cut into pieces, like Standard Oil was, and they would never be allowed to create "ecosystems" which lock users down to their platforms.

Is a bit more nuanced than that I think.i believe a big part comes down to how we treat software in terms of copyright. 

 

When you look at the os part of their business, I think you would have a hard time proving that a monopoly I think. 

What they got in trouble before with was how they pushed their bundled apps over allowing customer choice. Breaking them up from their os division to their other parts might be what you are getting at I think. I think that would do little to move windows from the most popular desktop os.

 

In the os market, even in business, their are viable alternatives. In the web server space the vast majority are Linux based. 

[m9x3mos]

3 hours ago, cretsiah said:

Windows 11 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Windows 10 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

windows 10 wont even install on my ryzen 5 3400g system ...... " Oops we have run into an error we will restart your computer " loop

windows 10 has given me NO choice but to install another Operating System

 

which is quite frankly fine by me,

 

no  more BSODs

no more failed updates

 

finally at peace

This is an odd one. I have setup a few with the 3200 and 3400 g and haven't run into that as a problem.

On my Debian based machines though I occasionally run into issues with config after apt updates. Not to mention local dns lookups on Ubuntu not really working for me. All my remote connections need to be IP based which is a pain in the butt.

[cretsiah]

@m9x3mos

yeah i know its weird........

CPU is Ryzen 53400G

16gig RAM ( kinston i think)

motherboard : ASUS Prime B450M-k (according to these forums one of the crappiest boards i believe but i got it cheap at the time as a full computer)

250gig ssd

4TB usb drive (western i think)

 

i updated the bios (which went fine) but now windows 10 refuses to install on it, where as before it would crash and go into an update loop around the 2H complete OS upgrade ....

 

installed Mint 20 Cinnamon edition and have no issues

4TB /home drive is great for steam

[m9x3mos]

39 minutes ago, cretsiah said:

@m9x3mos

yeah i know its weird........

CPU is Ryzen 53400G

16gig RAM ( kinston i think)

motherboard : ASUS Prime B450M-k (according to these forums one of the crappiest boards i believe but i got it cheap at the time as a full computer)

250gig ssd

4TB usb drive (western i think)

 

i updated the bios (which went fine) but now windows 10 refuses to install on it, where as before it would crash and go into an update loop around the 2H complete OS upgrade ....

 

installed Mint 20 Cinnamon edition and have no issues

4TB /home drive is great for steam

Yeah. That is really weird. I tried Linux mint as well. I like it's look better than Ubuntu but also have issues connecting to machines on the Lan by host name as well. 

Have you figured out why that is? 

[Alexeygridnev1993]

6 hours ago, m9x3mos said:

Is a bit more nuanced than that I think.i believe a big part comes down to how we treat software in terms of copyright. 

 

When you look at the os part of their business, I think you would have a hard time proving that a monopoly I think. 

What they got in trouble before with was how they pushed their bundled apps over allowing customer choice. Breaking them up from their os division to their other parts might be what you are getting at I think. I think that would do little to move windows from the most popular desktop os.

 

In the os market, even in business, their are viable alternatives. In the web server space the vast majority are Linux based. 

Well, that was the initial court decision on Microsoft, to separate the part of the company which develops the OS from the part which develops apps. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court overturned this decision. And now we are not even surprized anymore at tons of preinstalled apps on any OS, and even at the fact that so many of these apps are platform-exclusive. That's clearly an abuse of monopolistic power one market to get an unfair advantage on another market.

 

Yes, on the server market, Linux is dominating and other systems are pretty much not present. There is a plethora of distros developed by different companies (RHEL, Ubuntu Server, Debian, even Intel has its own distro "Clear Linux"), so, there is a healthy competition. On the desktop and laptop market, on the other hand, Windows is 80% of the market, and MacOS is most of the remaining 20%.

[cretsiah]

23 hours ago, m9x3mos said:

Yeah. That is really weird. I tried Linux mint as well. I like it's look better than Ubuntu but also have issues connecting to machines on the Lan by host name as well. 

Have you figured out why that is? 

not really......

 

I can see my ISP modem and my sons win10 gaming system (but his is not set to be accessible through shared folders ) modem is accessible via log-in page in browser.

 

however I can print from Libre Office to my network printer (Canon MX 526) but i dont see it in the network listing.

 

I also dont see my other Linux Mint or Popos systems on the network ( they just might not be setup yet )....... if i find out how that works i will let you know 

[m9x3mos]

10 hours ago, cretsiah said:

not really......

 

I can see my ISP modem and my sons win10 gaming system (but his is not set to be accessible through shared folders ) modem is accessible via log-in page in browser.

 

however I can print from Libre Office to my network printer (Canon MX 526) but i dont see it in the network listing.

 

I also dont see my other Linux Mint or Popos systems on the network ( they just might not be setup yet )....... if i find out how that works i will let you know 

The only workaround I have found was editing one of the conf files to inject my router as a dns. That works only until I reboot. 

[cretsiah]

@m9x3mos nearest i can figure from what i read, you havent made a specific  " public shared " folder/drive on each system.

 

this thread might help