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Next version of Windows event... Windows 11 -> Ended

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

New on-screen keyboard - Meh, who cares? Does anyone actually use that keyboard?

Yes, when using as a tablet. Would be better if 2-in-1 were lighter but that is a different problem.

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6 hours ago, Levent said:

Doesnt even load/work for me.

Not functional on all platforms.  Hmm.. may want a list of what platforms it fails on.  Might matter. It makes sense for microsoft to list the good but not the bad and there was a lot of bad in windows 10.  I expect people will be finding awful bits for some time.  Like that asinine decision to put safe mode beyond all but the most determined reach, or that thing where some relevant monitors just aren’t supported.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Most important takeaway was not even spoken about by the presenters; Online Microsoft account REQUIRED for Windwos 11 Home.

On one hand, that will probably mean that Win 11 Home will be free, since the telemetry baked into Windows is already big money-maker for MS, and people will eat up anything that they can have for free*, regardless of how many asterisks follow the word.

I suspect that the telemetry tools will be much more robust in Win 11, but I'll have to get my hands on it to see for sure.

 

The double-speak from the presenters was almost laughable. Satya saying how much he cares about user agency while demoing TikTok (Chinese communist party malware). Panos also said that the news feed was "AI Powered" to curate news feeds for you - from a company that runs an onpenly partisan news comapny (MSNBC)... totally about user agency.

I wonder how much cotrol users will ahve over these "features".

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16 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Thoughts, in no particular order:

 

New settings - Looked nice when it flashed by in the video. It remains to be seen how easy it is to work with though. It doesn't matter if something looks nice if it requires a lot of clicks to use. Right now in Windows 10, changing IP adress is kind of a pain in the ass. I hope it requires fewer clicks in Windows 11.

 

Themes - Nice to see themes making a comeback. 

 

New "fancy zones" built in to the OS (snap layouts) - Really nice. As a 32:9 monitor user, this is a welcome change.

 

Teams - I hope it's a lightweight version, because if it's full-blown Teams then it's very much bloatware. I also hope you can turn it off even if it's a lightweight version. I don't think Teams for consumers will take off though like Microsoft hopes. People have already settled in on their preferred chat platforms, and making people change is extremely difficult since there is so much inertia. 

 

Widgets - Might be cool, but I doubt I'll use it.

 

New taskbar and start menu- Absolutely awful in every way possible. I can not express how much I hate it.

I hate that it has a massive "recommended" section. I hate that it's located in the middle of the screen. I hate how low information density it has. I hate how the start menu will move around on the task bar depending on how many programs you got open (so it is impossible to train any type of muscle memory).

 

New on-screen keyboard - Meh, who cares? Does anyone actually use that keyboard?

 

Improvements to multiple desktops - This is neat. I'll probably still not use it, but giving it more customization options will make it more useful.

 

Auto HDR - Seems alright. I hope it works well.

 

Windows updates 40% smaller and happens in the background - THANK YOU! It will remain to be seen how this works out in practice but it sounds good. I really hope they manage to make the update system better. 

 

Faster, more energy efficient and and more secure - Sounds good but I'd like to know how they have accomplished this.

 

Snap groups - This feels like one of those features that are cool to demo, but will rarely if ever actually be used by anyone. I'm not sure about everyone else, but I change my work layout all the time. I constantly move windows around and open and close new programs. It feels like snap groups would rarely be useful for me, and if a feature I rarely use is easy to accidentally click, and takes up space near the task bar then it will just be annoying. I hope you can turn it off.

 

Better multi-monitor support (windows minimize when disconnected and returns when you plug it in again) - This is fantastic. This feature is long overdue. I'll love this when I dock and undock my laptop at work.

 

Microsoft Store - Everything about the new store sounds good. I hope it turns out that it is actually good, and that people start using it.

 

New design - Overall I like the new design. The new icons looks nice. The new animations seems smooth and satisfying. I like that the glass effects are back.

The new store stuff may actually make the most functional difference society wise.   There’s a whole lot of allowances that haven’t been made before in any store some of which can affect margin a lot.  Sounds like this was developed with the assumption that Apple would get pwned in court.  It may make a big difference about how all online stores are done.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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With the TPM requirement, I guess I'm keeping Windows 10 on this PC. TPM 2.0 modules are anywhere between 50 and 90 euro on Amazon, and I'm not spending that to get Windows 11. Maybe my next motherboard will have it pre-installed.

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8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Not functional on all platforms.  Hmm.. may want a list of what platforms it fails on.  Might matter. It makes sense for microsoft to list the good but not the bad and there was a lot of bad in windows 10.  I expect people will be finding awful bits for some time.  Like that asinine decision to put safe mode beyond all but the most determined reach, or that thing where some relevant monitors just aren’t supported.

I meant the stream in which windows 11 was announced by the way lol. It wouldnt stream the video.

 

mY s YsTeM iS Not pErfoRmInG aS gOOd As I sAW oN yOuTuBe. WhA t IS a GoOd FaN CuRVe??!!? wHat aRe tEh GoOd OvERclok SeTTinGS FoR My CaRd??
 HoW CaN I foRcE my GpU to uSe 1o0%? BuT WiLL i HaVE Bo0tllEnEcKs? RyZEN dOeS NoT peRfORm BetTer wItH HiGhER sPEED RaM!!dId i WiN teH SiLiCON LotTerrYyOu ShoUlD dEsHrOuD uR GPUmy SYstEm iS UNDerPerforMiNg iN WarzONEcan mY Pc Run WiNdOwS 11 ?woUld BaKInG MY GRaPHics card fIX it?
 MultimETeR TeSTiNG!! aMd'S GpU DrIvErS aRe as goOD aS NviDia's
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2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Considering that you need a GPU with DirectX 12, I am starting to believe these minimum specs is more for Microsoft to ensure that Windows 11 doesn't run on old crap system, and doesn't have a poor experience due to lack of hardware support or just lack of performance. In other words, probably avoiding a Vista again.

I can see why Microsoft wouldn't want to support older GPU's, could also be something to do with GPU acceleration and the new animations in Windows 11, but Windows 11 is mostly still Windows 10, so hardware that runs Windows 10 well should be able to run Windows 11.

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2 minutes ago, Fetzie said:

With the TPM requirement, I guess I'm keeping Windows 10 on this PC. TPM 2.0 modules are anywhere between 50 and 90 euro on Amazon, and I'm not spending that to get Windows 11. Maybe my next motherboard will have it pre-installed.

I think this is intended to age-out older hardware. Most boards that support intel's i-Series of CPUs all the way back to 2nd and 3rd gen either shipped with TPM 2.0 or can have their firmware updated to support TPM 2.0.

Older chipsets such as the Core2 Quad, or Intel Core-series CPUs will most likely just fall out of support since the boards with those sockets won't support TPM 2.0.

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7 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

Most important takeaway was not even spoken about by the presenters; Online Microsoft account REQUIRED for Windwos 11 Home.

Because it's nothing new? Has been there for a couple of years, AND you could always bypass it, same in the leaked build. 

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2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Considering that you need a GPU with DirectX 12, I am starting to believe these minimum specs is more for Microsoft to ensure that Windows 11 doesn't run on old crap system, and doesn't have a poor experience due to lack of hardware support or just lack of performance. In other words, probably avoiding a Vista again.

How far back does one need to go before GPUs no longer support DX12?

Off the top of my head I am pretty sure the HD Radeon 7000 series was the first to support DX12, (Long live the HDR 7870!!!) 
Nvidia it seems to be the Geforce 400 series,
and Intel-Oh....  RIP everything pre Skylake without a dGPU. Looks like my parents Thinkpads aren't going to Win11.

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7 minutes ago, Levent said:

I meant the stream in which windows 11 was announced by the way lol. It wouldnt stream the video.

 

Ah.

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I can see why Microsoft wouldn't want to support older GPU's, could also be something to do with GPU acceleration and the new animations in Windows 11, but Windows 11 is mostly still Windows 10, so hardware that runs Windows 10 well should be able to run Windows 11.

Except they’re not letting that happen apparently.   Kinda curious where the break point is.  What video cards have been kicked off windows and are now Linux only for 11?  Might be even some apple compatible stuff in there.  I don’t know.

Edited by Bombastinator

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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2 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

I think this is intended to age-out older hardware. Most boards that support intel's i-Series of CPUs all the way back to 2nd and 3rd gen either shipped with TPM 2.0 or can have their firmware updated to support TPM 2.0.

Older chipsets such as the Core2 Quad, or Intel Core-series CPUs will most likely just fall out of support since the boards with those sockets won't support TPM 2.0.

Or they shipped with a TPM socket but no TPM chip, like a lot of motherboards in the consumer channel do.

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14 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Because it's nothing new? Has been there for a couple of years, AND you could always bypass it, same in the leaked build. 

Source?

Also, the leaked build was the Pro version and these news are specifically about the Home version.

 

I think you're not fully understanding what is being said here.

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6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I think you're not fully understanding what is being said here.

What? 

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-create-local-account-during-windows-10-home-setup-process

 

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Also, the leaked build was the Pro version and these news are specifically about the Home version.

The leaked build contains all versions including Home.

F@H
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GPD Win 2

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I assume then socket 775 era Core2Duo's are not capable of Win11?

PC - NZXT H510 Elite, Ryzen 5600, 16GB DDR3200 2x8GB, EVGA 3070 FTW3 Ultra, Asus VG278HQ 165hz,

 

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1 minute ago, Tieox said:

I assume then socket 775 era Core2Duo's are not capable of Win11?

Officially very much no, someone just found out that the compatibility check has a CPU whitelist and anything older than intel 8th gen is not on it. 

That old a system doesn't even have UEFI.

F@H
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GPD Win 2

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1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

Officially very much no, someone just found out that the compatibility check has a CPU whitelist and anything older than intel 8th gen is not on it. 

That old a system doesn't even have UEFI.

So an Ivybridge 3300 is also boned then, bloody fantastic Microsoft. 

PC - NZXT H510 Elite, Ryzen 5600, 16GB DDR3200 2x8GB, EVGA 3070 FTW3 Ultra, Asus VG278HQ 165hz,

 

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3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

What? 

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-create-local-account-during-windows-10-home-setup-process

 

The leaked build contains all versions including Home.

It is presently possible to create an "offline" account in Windows 10 by performing the install while the device is not connected to the Internet.

However, Windows 10 never said that a Microsoft account was required. Windows 11 does.

We don't yet know if an "offline" account will remain an option for Home editions since the demo version shown on stage was the Pro edition and not Home.

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Very weird on the system requirements side. I'm assuming that the TPM and the newer processor are just an at launch thing with support for the rest coming later 

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5 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Officially very much no, someone just found out that the compatibility check has a CPU whitelist and anything older than intel 8th gen is not on it. 

That old a system doesn't even have UEFI.

This appears to be that list: https://www.xda-developers.com/cpus-compatible-windows-11/

 

Basically nothing older than Intel 8000 series or AMD Ryzen 2000 series.

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13 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Except they’re not letting that happen apparently.   Kinda curious where the break point is.  What video cards have been kicked off windows and are now Linux only for 11?  Might be even some apple compatible stuff in there.  I don’t know.

IIRC anything older than the GTX 400 series on Nvidia, and HD7000 series on AMD, old cards but still useful for basic tasks, though PC's running GPU's that old might not have a UEFI bios or TPM anyway.

It might sound tinfoil hat but I wonder if Intel pushed Microsoft to make TPM a requirement so people will be replacing their older PC's, because Microsoft has to be getting Intel money to be saying the 11th gen CPU's are great.

2 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

What? 

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-create-local-account-during-windows-10-home-setup-process

 

The leaked build includes all versions including Home.

Thats for Windows 10, but who knows if the Windows 11 setup is going to be the same, MS has been pushing for online accounts so I wouldn't be surprised if its forced for Win11 home, MS gets all kinds of telemetry especially if someone uses Outlook mail with their Microsoft account.

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3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Officially very much no, someone just found out that the compatibility check has a CPU whitelist and anything older than intel 8th gen is not on it. 

That seems like something of a self-own from MS. 8th gen and nw CPUs will probably account for only a tiny fraction (far less than 10%) of the total PC marketplace. MS is profoundly stupid in many ways, but even they are not stupid enough to bar 90% of their existing customer base from moving forward with their new product.

I have heard that Windows 11 will feature a new Core/Thread Scheduler intended specifically to take advantage of the new BIG.little architecture. If this is true, than anything older than Intel's yet unreleased 12th gen chips will be opperating with a functional performance penalty.

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4 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

MS is profoundly stupid in many ways, but even they are not stupid enough to bar 90% of their existing customer base from moving forward with their new product.

It's obviously going to be to push people to upgrade hardware, and as usual it'll work, they have enough clout to do that and it likely comes with their Intel/AMD partnerships.

F@H
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Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB SX8200Pro RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Dell XPS 2 in 1 2019, 32GB, 1TB, 4K

 

GPD Win 2

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