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Next version of Windows event... Windows 11 -> Ended

13 minutes ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

Ubuntu logs keystrokes in exactly the same way that Windows does. And the system logs are user-facing, so they are accessible to most applications that are running outside of a sandbox such as a VM. (See Daemon Listening Services).

They also includes a bunch of software from Mozilla, which is also a telemetry monster now (Still better than Chrome by a mile, but "better than the other guy" isn't the same as "good").

Mozilla aside, we are talking about the OS. And while I may not be the best at searching for this stuff, all I found was this:

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/05/this-is-the-data-ubuntu-collects-about-your-system

 

So if you have any proof of this, please, please! post it, I use Linux, and I"d like to be educated about this

So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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3 minutes ago, StDragon said:

 

 

Apparently there's a firmware implementation of TPM called fTPM that I wasn't aware of. 🤔

 

You can read about it on Tom's Hardware and a Reddit thread.

 

But yes, TPM is a physical chip that holds keys to decrypt the boot drive that's encrypted with BitLocker. I'm just not sure if enabling BitLocker is required. If not, then in theory fTPM should suffice.

Yes, fTPM which is on 2013 and newer Intel processors, and I'm not sure which AMD version it started appearing in, should help most people. However, it's disabled by default in the UEFI, and not all UEFI exposes a control to enable it or works correctly trying to turn it on. Each UEFI also seems to have different names for what it's called. Also, this doesn't change that only 8th gen Intel and 2nd gen Ryzen and newer are officially supported and you'll need to dismiss warnings before you can install on anything lower.

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2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I also find the TPM 2.0 requirement weird.

I get dumbing some hardware because you want to get rid of some legacy stuff, but in the case of TPM 2.0 it is adding more dependencies even though it seems like there are no technical reasons for requiring it.

I don't see the point in requiring TPM at all, it doesn't make sense for Win11 home, the average person doesn't need that level of security.

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Just now, Blademaster91 said:

I don't see the point in requiring TPM at all, it doesn't make sense for Win11 home, the average person doesn't need that level of security.

You and me both, especially considering fTPM and TPM 2.0 by Infineon were both broken years ago. 

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9 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Soft required. Others can still install W11, but will be advised not to update to it.

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Kind of unbelievable if you bought a $3,499 Microsoft Surface Studio 2 (which comes brand new with a 7th-gen Core i7), to buy it and then be informed that you _should not_ upgrade to Windows 11, and yet your OS will be discontinued in four years. That's a weird and angering place to be in.

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10 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Of course, supported, and runs, are worlds apart. I tried out the Win11 leaked version under a VM on my Dual CPU Xeon E5-2643 and it ran just fine.

I'm hard pressed to think of a feature in Win11 that won't run on a 7th gen Intel CPU, that will on an 8th Gen one.

So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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2 minutes ago, gjsman said:

Kind of unbelievable if you bought a $3,499 Surface Studio (which comes brand new with a 7th-gen Core i7), to buy it and then be informed that you _should not_ upgrade to Windows 11, and yet your OS will be discontinued in four years. That's a weird and angering place to be in.

At this point I am convinced the requirements are bullshit and someone somewhere made the typo of the fucking decade.

PC - NZXT H510 Elite, Ryzen 5600, 16GB DDR3200 2x8GB, EVGA 3070 FTW3 Ultra, Asus VG278HQ 165hz,

 

Mac - 1.4ghz i5, 4GB DDR3 1600mhz, Intel HD 5000.  x2

 

Endlessly wishing for a BBQ in space.

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3 minutes ago, gjsman said:

Kind of unbelievable if you bought a $3,499 Microsoft Surface Studio 2 (which comes brand new with a 7th-gen Core i7), to buy it and then be informed that you _should not_ upgrade to Windows 11, and yet your OS will be discontinued in four years. That's a weird and angering place to be in.

Microsoft has complete control over their hardware, some control over laptops and no control over DIY stuff.

I expect these things to be treated fairly differently.

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2 minutes ago, gjsman said:

Kind of unbelievable if you bought a $3,499 Microsoft Surface Studio 2 (which comes brand new with a 7th-gen Core i7), to buy it and then be informed that you _should not_ upgrade to Windows 11, and yet your OS will be discontinued in four years. That's a weird and angering place to be in.

This is going to be a bonanza for the *nix community.

 

"Give us your 7th Gen and below masses, yearning for a supported OS."

If they are smart, they will make a lot of new converts...

Of course, that's a big if...

So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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7 minutes ago, gjsman said:

Yes, fTPM which is on 2013 and newer Intel processors, and I'm not sure which AMD version it started appearing in, should help most people. However, it's disabled by default in the UEFI, and not all UEFI exposes a control to enable it or works correctly trying to turn it on. Each UEFI also seems to have different names for what it's called. Also, this doesn't change that only 8th gen Intel and 2nd gen Ryzen and newer are officially supported and you'll need to dismiss warnings before you can install on anything lower.

So yeah, in my BIOS (X570 Taichi) I had the option to enable fTPM for the AMD CPU.

Sure enough, Shows I have a TPM chip. 

 

Capture.PNG

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so it wont support 1950x...

due to tmp bs.....

seems when using the tool to see if you erady for win 11

cpu oddly and tmp issue.

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If you are an enterprise IT Pro, you are flaming livid right now.

 

- Typically, you would receive 8 years of support after each Windows version was replaced. Windows 7 came out in 2009, was replaced by 8 in 2012, supported until 2020 (8 years after 8 came out). Windows 8 came out in 2012, 10 came out in 2015, Windows 8 will be supported until 2023. 8 years of support after the replacement version of Windows. With Windows 11, you only get half as long. 4 years.

 

- If you refreshed on Skylake, like my community college or other places did, your enterprise machines typically have tiny UEFIs because they network boot and might not have the option to turn on a fTPM. And if they do, you would have to go back through every PC and reconfigure the UEFI for every PC in the deployment. Sounds like fun. And if your PCs aren't 8th gen but you refreshed on 7th or 6th gen, running on an unsupported config is a bad idea.

 

- So no matter what you do, you will almost certainly end up with Windows 10 and 11 machines. And those Windows 10 machines that are having end of life earlier than you expected, and can't be upgraded which you didn't expect. That's angering.

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4 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

so it wont support 1950x...

due to tmp bs.....

seems when using the tool to see if you erady for win 11

cpu oddly and tmp issue.

Hahahaha, I fail all three requirements on my system.

I'm oddly pleased by this.

So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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oh god, is mostly if not all from amazon.

You might need to link your AMAZON account with the MS store, a bit like linking launchers and games. Which can require downloading the amazon APP in the MS store and signing in or create account. Once linked, you can download the APPS in the MS store which comes from AMAZON. nice :U

(this being about android apps)

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1 minute ago, gjsman said:

If you are an enterprise IT Pro, you are flaming livid right now.

 

- Typically, you would receive 8 years of support after each Windows version was replaced. Windows 7 came out in 2009, was replaced by 8 in 2012, supported until 2020 (8 years after 8 came out). Windows 8 came out in 2012, 10 came out in 2015, Windows 8 will be supported until 2023. 8 years of support after the replacement version of Windows. With Windows 11, you only get half as long. 4 years.

 

- If you refreshed on Skylake, like my community college or other places did, your enterprise machines typically have tiny UEFIs because they network boot and might not have the option to turn on a fTPM. And if they do, you would have to go back through every PC and reconfigure the UEFI for every PC in the deployment. Sounds like fun. And if your PCs aren't 8th gen but you refreshed on 7th or 6th gen, running on an unsupported config is a bad idea.

 

- So no matter what you do, you will almost certainly end up with Windows 10 and 11 machines. And those Windows 10 machines that are having end of life earlier than you expected, and can't be upgraded which you didn't expect. That's angering.

Everyone needs to mail a giant box of turds to Microsoft right now.  

 

https://www.sendshit.co.uk/

PC - NZXT H510 Elite, Ryzen 5600, 16GB DDR3200 2x8GB, EVGA 3070 FTW3 Ultra, Asus VG278HQ 165hz,

 

Mac - 1.4ghz i5, 4GB DDR3 1600mhz, Intel HD 5000.  x2

 

Endlessly wishing for a BBQ in space.

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Also, what people also forget, besides my rant about how this is going to upset IT Pros trying to update, you also need to realize how many complaints IT Pros are going to receive from people demanding their taskbars be put back on the left, or wondering where their pinned Start Menu links went. (Because when you upgrade to 11, according to Microsoft docs, your entire Start Menu and everything on it is cleared and reset.) Stuff like that is also a headache.

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16 minutes ago, Tieox said:

At this point I am convinced the requirements are bullshit and someone somewhere made the typo of the fucking decade.

Its probably more like "Minimum requirements" that games give.
Beyond the OS, DX versions, and storage requirements, "minimum requirements" is completely subjective, and most of the time are based on a test bench developers have. (Thats why games always list mid to high end GPUs of yesteryear rather then ever mentioning low end cards, and why you can often go with lower end hardware then what they say is the "minimum". )

I'd seriously take the CPU suppoted list as a "These are the CPUs we have verified actually works." - (And by verify I mean they probably only tested a few from each generation/platform, since I'm pretty sure you don't need to check every SKU if the only difference is clock speed)
ie: Will a 7th Gen CPU work? - Personally I can't see why not, just Microsoft didn't test it themselves.

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27 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I don't have a list of which CPUs support Firmware TPM (fTPM), but given the oldest CPUs in that list are about 2018 and newer, stands with reason perhaps they do?

I'm real new on the whole fTPM because frankly I've never had to use it. All laptops I've managed within an org involved the TPM being on-board to enable BitLocker.

Seems fTPM is really all that's needed assuming all of those CPUs implement some variant of the function.

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1 minute ago, DeScruff said:

I'd seriously take the CPU suppoted list as a "These are the CPUs we have verified actually works." - (And by verify I mean they probably only tested a few from each generation/platform, since I'm pretty sure you don't need to check every SKU if the only difference is clock speed)

Also incorrect. On the supported CPU list, Microsoft listed pretty much every SKU of each generation, and did in fact check every SKU despite clock speed differences. 7th gen is actually out.

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1 minute ago, gjsman said:

Also incorrect. On the supported CPU list, Microsoft listed pretty much every SKU of each generation, and did in fact check every SKU despite clock speed differences. 7th gen is actually out.

The shitstorm this will generate once it hits mainstream YouTube will be legendary.

 

 

PC - NZXT H510 Elite, Ryzen 5600, 16GB DDR3200 2x8GB, EVGA 3070 FTW3 Ultra, Asus VG278HQ 165hz,

 

Mac - 1.4ghz i5, 4GB DDR3 1600mhz, Intel HD 5000.  x2

 

Endlessly wishing for a BBQ in space.

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Just now, Tieox said:

The shitstorm this will generate once it hits mainstream YouTube will be legendary.

 

It's not that you can't install on 7th gen or older CPUs though, it's that Windows will warn you it's not recommended and you shouldn't do it. You will need TPM regardless though, even on older CPUs as that is a hard requirement.

 

Still, when people find out you need to be on 8th gen or newer to be in Microsoft's graces... it will be legendary.

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Just now, Tieox said:

The shitstorm this will generate once it hits mainstream YouTube will be legendary.

 

 

What's amusing is according to that link, my system doesn't meet the minimum system requirements for Windows *7*, much less anything newer (dual Xeon CPUs e5-2643 v2, meaning a total of 12c and 24t at 3.50Ghz) and yet I run Windows 8.1 Industry Embedded Pro perfectly, and several Win10 VMs (and tested Win11 in a VM) without issue.

 

So who knows what that doc means...

So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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Just now, gjsman said:

It's not that you can't install on 7th gen or older CPUs though, it's that Windows will warn you it's not recommended and you shouldn't do it. You will need TPM regardless though, even on older CPUs as that is a hard requirement.

 

Still, when people find out you need to be on 8th gen or newer to be in Microsoft's graces... it will be legendary.

Oh yes, and I hope for one that @LinusTechhas a minimum of twenty minutes video rant, with enough swearing to fill a Corsair 1000d swear case to glass bursting point.

PC - NZXT H510 Elite, Ryzen 5600, 16GB DDR3200 2x8GB, EVGA 3070 FTW3 Ultra, Asus VG278HQ 165hz,

 

Mac - 1.4ghz i5, 4GB DDR3 1600mhz, Intel HD 5000.  x2

 

Endlessly wishing for a BBQ in space.

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