TVB problem with i7 10870H

omidzare · June 23, 2021

Hello,
I recently purchased an ASUS ROG G512LV gaming laptop with the following specs:
CPU: intel core i7 10870h
Ram: 32 GB
GPU: RTX 2060 mobile (115w version)
With included 230w charger.

Well, at first, I performed a clean installation of windows to remove the bloat wares on my laptop. After completing the installation and setting up drivers, I installed a throttle stop (to monitor the CPU performance and have some tweaks) and ran some CPU benchmarks. The device was working fine (multicore tests showed CPU using 100 watts to achieve 4.6 to 4.7 GHz all-core frequency and single-core performance was hitting 4.8 to 5.0 GHz for single-threaded applications).

After two months of using the laptop, I'm now faced with a problem. The CPU, in multicore tests, is hitting 4.0 GHz across all cores using 82 watts of power; and for the single-core performance, I never saw the frequency to go above 4.3 to 4.4 GHz.

Going to find the source of my problem, The throttle stop limits sections shows that (pic 1) the “TVB” is constantly being hit in multicore tests and sometimes in single-core tests.

I suspected that maybe my recent bios update (V.312) might be the problem, so I backlashed the bios to version 310, nothing changed.
I tried to disable TVB in the FIVR section of throttle stop. Despite unchecking the box, TVB is still present in the limits section.
I tried the methods suggested by “unclewebb” in the topic “i7-10870H single-core unable to boost above 4.1GHz” in the forum, but it wasn’t successful to restore the previous conditions.

This is the multicore test: (pic1)

this is the single core test:

this is the FIVR section:

and this is the TPL section ( I tweaked power limits )

Honestly, after lots of searching about this particular problem of mine on the internet, I couldn’t find a clue; and I’m very frustrated. Have any of you guys had any solutions regarding the situation? I don’t know whether it's TVB's fault, or something is wrong with my windows…

Thank you.

NattyKathy · June 23, 2021

Are you totally sure about those all-core clocks you were getting before? What sort of load were you seeing those clocks with? TVB and Intel chips boost behavior in general is complex and depends highly on load. I have almost the same chip in my system (in sig, i7 10875H, also highly tuned with Throttlestop, TVB disabled) and it maxes out at 4.3Ghz all-core. With one core highly loaded and the rest lightly loaded I see around 4.4 - 4.6Ghz, and with one core loaded and the rest mostly idle it does around 4.6 - 4.8Ghz. I only see the 4.9 - 5.1Ghz range happening under extremely light load or idle conditions.

omidzare · June 23, 2021

Hi

Thanks for your reply
Well, I tested my laptop after the clean installation. I used TS bench and cinebench to test the behavior of the CPU (multicore), the CPU frequency was between 4.6 to 4.7, while consuming about 100 watts of power. Approximately after 1 min, It hit the thermal throttling and pl2 was hit, and the CPU lowered its frequency to cool itself down. For the single thread work, I used TS bench and cinebench too and the results were as I described in the previous text.

I highly suspect TVB; since something added it. It wasn't there ( or enabled ) on the first tests. After that, I was faced with a reduction in CPU frequency and power consumption. I really don’t know that whether my problem TVB or not; Or basically what enabled it.

For light loads or idle conditions, the top frequency is no more than 4.4 GHz. I never saw any values above that.

unclewebb · June 23, 2021

2 hours ago, omidzare said:

the CPU frequency was between 4.6 to 4.7

That would be physically impossible during a full load stress test. Open the FIVR window and look at the turbo ratios. When 8 cores are active, the maximum multiplier is 41. When TVB is active, the CPU multiplier is reduced by 1 so the maximum CPU multiplier would go from 41 to 40. Your screenshot shows the 40.00 multiplier across the board so your CPU is running exactly as intel intended.

Look at the top of the FIVR window where it shows Locked. It looks like you have installed a BIOS update that has locked out CPU voltage control. It shows that you are requesting a -92.8 mV offset but if you look at the FIVR monitoring table, this offset voltage is not being applied to the CPU. The Offset column shows +0.0000. Why? Because CPU voltage control is locked.

Guess what? This BIOS update has also locked out the ability to disable Thermal Velocity Boost throttling. That is why you are getting TVB lighting up in red. Clearing the Thermal Velocity Boost box in ThrottleStop is not doing anything. The CPU is ignoring this request like it is ignoring your voltage requests.

The sad part is that once you upgrade your BIOS, it might not be possible to fully go back to the previous BIOS. Remnants of the new BIOS might still be in effect, like the locked out voltage and TVB control.

Start by exiting ThrottleStop and delete the ThrottleStop.INI file. Shut down your computer. When you restart, ThrottleStop will create a new .INI configuration file. This will remove your voltage requests that are no longer possible. You might have to go back several BIOS versions to try to restore CPU voltage control. Not sure if this is possible and I am not sure if this would be safe. You need to find an Asus laptop specific forum to see what other users have done.

The reason your CPU is not reaching a higher multiplier during your single thread test is because you have too much stuff running in the background. This keeps additional cores active. When your computer is completely idle at the desktop with only ThrottleStop open, what is being reported for C0%. This is a very accurate measurement of background activity. Here is how my computer looks when idle.

When properly setup, Windows 10 can be very lean. Many apps you add to your computer are not. You can double click on the monitoring table to see the extended view. Cores have to remain idle to reach the maximum single core multiplier. The theoretical 49 or 50 single core multipliers that your CPU supports are mostly a marketing gimmick. In any normal Windows install, it is impossible to reach these for more than a few milliseconds at a time.

The algorithm within the CPU that controls this is rather suspect. Some single threaded tasks will rapidly bounce around from core to core. This keeps cores in the active state so the maximum turbo boost multiplier is reduced. This is why Windows needs to be extremely lean.

In the TPL window, your power limits are set backwards. The PL2 power limit should always be equal to or higher than the PL1 limit. Setting the turbo time limit to 3.67 million seconds will be ignored by the CPU. Set the time limit to the default 28 seconds. The CPU understands that number.

If you ever find a way to unlock CPU voltage control, post your solution here so others with this problem can find it.

omidzare · June 23, 2021

thank you unclewebb, no doubt that you have Anthony's level of knowledge.

Asus bios by default allow for -80 mV of undervolting in the BOIS, but I found this unstable by the bios v.312. After a few shutdowns or restarts, it just vanishes. I had to go to bios every time to reconfigure it, but the same happens again and again, so I left it out. maybe a newer version will fix this behavior.

As much as you said, I think the bios reduced the performance of the CPU. This model of laptop is unfortunately poorly designed. I saw various people across multiple forums complaining about high temperatures during demanding workload or gaming (90+ on CPU, 80+ on GPU); so this could the reason for the handicap of the CPU performance.

There is a bios version 310 on the Asus support page, but I highly doubt that it unlocks the voltage control or TVB control; as you said, some settings may remain still even after back flashing bios. I found there is a previous version, 306 , on previous built devices, but sadly it's not available on Asus's support page and I couldn't find it on the web. (pls let me know if you know a site to find older versions of my devices bios)

On single-core performance, I think your right. I have some stuff running in the background and they may allocate other cores resources.

Thank you for the tip on power limits, I will do as you said.

I believe there should be some modified Bioses out there that will unlock more controls over CPU behavior within the Bios (or a way to modify the Bios). But, I don't trust the security of them and the last thing that I want is to brick my laptop.

I will try my luck with back flashing the bios to version 310, then reinstalling the windows, maybe that would help.

Just one question sir: what TVB? is it good or bad?

Anyway, thanks for your reply and information. Keep up the good work!

unclewebb · June 23, 2021

1 hour ago, omidzare said:

90+ on CPU

That is a normal operating temperature for a modern gaming laptop with an Intel mobile CPU. Most similar laptops run at these temperatures. Your computer has much better cooling than many I have seen.

Some 10th Gen mobile CPUs are only stable at an undervolt of -70 mV. Undervolting that is only available in the BIOS is a good idea to prevent any Plundervolt security issues. Not being able to adjust the size of the undervolt is a bad idea. If your CPU is not 100% stable at -80 mV then you cannot use this feature at all. MSI was smart. They include a hidden BIOS option so enthusiasts can unlock CPU voltage control and MSI owners can also disable TVB.

1 hour ago, omidzare said:

the handicap of the CPU performance.

I see no evidence of the CPU being handicapped. Your 10870H is running at the correct speed when all 8 cores are active.

Not the slightest hint of any throttling other than the TVB throttling which is part of the Intel design.

Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) throttling is a feature of these CPUs. When they exceed approximately 65°C or 70°C, TVB throttling kicks in and the CPU slows down 100 MHz. It is nice when laptop manufacturers allow you to disable this throttling feature in the BIOS but they are not required to do so. Your cooling is good so TVB throttling is really not that necessary.

1 hour ago, omidzare said:

reinstalling the windows

Why? It is not Windows that has locked out TVB and CPU voltage control. It is the BIOS that is responsible for locking your CPU. Reinstalling Windows is not going to change the turbo ratio limits. These are built into the CPU.

Open the Task Manager, go to the Details tab and find out what is running on your computer. Get rid of any unnecessary background tasks if you want your CPU to run faster when lightly loaded.