Noctua passive CPU cooler now available for purchase, bold claims for cooling capability

[Kaboom1]

Wonder why they put holes in it.

Is it so it’ll work in a horizontal configuration? (Motherboard parallel to the table)

[Joduko]

Should have used copper.

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, Kaboom1 said:

Wonder why they put holes in it.

Is it so it’ll work in a horizontal configuration? (Motherboard parallel to the table)

Vertical channels create accelerated natural convection, speeding up rate at which air flows through the fins because of heat itself. If you just have bunch of fins, heat will slowly move in all directions from the fins, not creating any draft and be less effective as a result. Similar principle is used for electric home heaters like Glamox electric radiators.

 

8 minutes ago, Joduko said:

Should have used copper.

Not really. Copper is super heavy and expensive compared to aluminium. Would you pay 180€ or 200€ for such cooler and still risk breaking motherboard by its weight? It's also generally great at accepting the heat, but aluminium is actually better at releasing it. I'm fairly certain I read about this somewhere...

[Bombastinator]

15 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Vertical channels create accelerated natural convection, speeding up rate at which air flows through the fins because of heat itself. If you just have bunch of fins, heat will slowly move in all directions from the fins, not creating any draft and be less effective as a result. Similar principle is used for electric home heaters like Glamox electric radiators.

 

Not really. Copper is super heavy and expensive compared to aluminium. Would you pay 180€ or 200€ for such cooler and still risk breaking motherboard by its weight? It's also generally great at accepting the heat, but aluminium is actually better at releasing it. I'm fairly certain I read about this somewhere...

There are a bunch of different properties that interact to get a final “how much heat does it move?” Thing.  The net favorite is copper, but you make strong points about weight and cost.  Ironically aluminum used to be more expensive than gold and was used in jewelry. What made it cheap was an electricity based mass refining process.  Aluminum oxide is an extremely common compound.  The process uses a great deal of electricity though which is why recycling aluminum is profitable.  Another odd factoid.  “Transparent aluminum” has been around for a very very long time.  It’s better known as sapphire.

[GoodBytes]

 

[RejZoR]

Problem is, we don't really have any half decent passive graphic cards anymore. I mean surely someone is making them, but they are so niche it's probably even harder to find than back in the day when they were 75W things for top of the line models and not 350W...

 

It is interesting idea though. Passive cooled CPU, passive cooled GPU, passive cooled PSU, we now have SSD's to complement that instead of old noisy HDD's. But in the end, only reason one would go this route is dust collecting which should be less of an issue in passive system. Because noise wise, you can make system with fans that will outperform any passive cooled system with ease and still be entirely inaudible. I mean, has anyone tried running quality fans at like 500 RPM ? I honestly can't hear my Silent Wings 3 at those speeds and I sleep in the same room. Usually I need to check power LED indicators to even see that system is actually running.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Problem is, we don't really have any half decent passive graphic cards anymore. I mean surely someone is making them, but they are so niche it's probably even harder to find than back in the day when they were 75W things for top of the line models and not 350W...

Make your own :D

 

[Bombastinator]

11 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Problem is, we don't really have any half decent passive graphic cards anymore. I mean surely someone is making them, but they are so niche it's probably even harder to find than back in the day when they were 75W things for top of the line models and not 350W...

 

It is interesting idea though. Passive cooled CPU, passive cooled GPU, passive cooled PSU, we now have SSD's to complement that instead of old noisy HDD's. But in the end, only reason one would go this route is dust collecting which should be less of an issue in passive system. Because noise wise, you can make system with fans that will outperform any passive cooled system with ease and still be entirely inaudible. I mean, has anyone tried running quality fans at like 500 RPM ? I honestly can't hear my Silent Wings 3 at those speeds and I sleep in the same room. Usually I need to check power LED indicators to even see that system is actually running.

I’m not sure if this amounts to agreement, clarification, or statement of exceptions.
 

I can think of two off hand but they’re both primarily commercial/industrial.  

 

1.) if there is an extremely dusty work area fans can simply cause problems.  a system with no fan can have massive longevity advantages partially because they can often be sealed.

 

2.) There are situations where actual zero Dba is actually needed. Merely inaudible won’t do it.  For these a fanless system could be the only thing that could even be used.  
 

 

There is also one consumer application but it’s been a solved problem for years.  A fanless HTPC has been an obvious application for many years, but that particular system can actually be accomplished with a 730, which is the largest fanless card I know of.  It’s been around for a long time though. I have wondered if a larger card could be done fanless.  A 1650 uses about the same wattage as a modern cpu so it wouldn’t be a small thing. 

[Bombastinator]

37 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Make your own

 

Not passive.  It has fans.

[Random_Person1234]

58 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I have wondered if a larger card could be done fanless.  A 1650 uses about the same wattage as a modern cpu so it wouldn’t be a small thing. 

https://www.palit.com/palit/vgapro.php?id=3494&lang=en

Palit makes a fully passive GTX 1650.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

Not passive.  It has fans.

My post was more for humor purposes...

 

But ok:

You can probably use these ultra-beefy GPU heatsink replacement, and not put the fan. Down volt a bit the GPU to get better temps, and you might be set.

The issue comes down to air flow, you might need to go with an exposed case designed, and not.. well.. a case, as you would have both the CPU and GPU creating massive amount of heat.

 

[GoodBytes]

On 6/7/2021 at 8:36 AM, TVwazhere said:

Wait, a Six year warranty? This seems kinda weird, as in, it seems kinda short. 

 

Considering there are no moving parts, how often do things like heat pipes break? Or do things like new mounting brackets fall under warranty as well (For things like the upcoming AM5 and LGA1200 sockets)?

It's because after 8 years (assuming the product won't be on sale past 2 years), Noctua doesn't want to keep spare stock for warranty replacement. As sale goes down, so is their warranty replacement stock. Keeping stock in a warehouse (even if you own the warehouse) has a cost associated to it.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

My post was more for humor purposes...

 

But ok:

You can probably use these ultra-beefy GPU heatsink replacement, and not put the fan. Down volt a bit the GPU to get better temps, and you might be set.

The issue comes down to air flow, you might need to go with an exposed case designed, and not.. well.. a case, as you would have both the CPU and GPU creating massive amount of heat.

 

I don’t think it would work for the gpu without a fan but only because apparently there’s a 1080ti under there which iirc pushed 200w. Probably fine for the 8700k cpu though not at the 5.0ghz OC dude was claiming. You can run a NH-15 with no fans at all and it can work for some smaller stuff.  Not a lot though. Would be interesting though.  See how much could be done passive.  Iirc scythe did some big ass passive coolers too a while back.  They weren’t super popular because they were so big and heavy they caused big motherboard problems.  Iirc I remember some pro gamer using one.  He managed to wedge the thing in a SFF case meant for travel that had this big handle on the top. Had to cut a big hole in the side of the thing to make it work but work it did.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Random_Person1234 said:

https://www.palit.com/palit/vgapro.php?id=3494&lang=en

Palit makes a fully passive GTX 1650.

It’s short too. If that short a card would work passive I kinda wonder if one of those Arctic cooler replacement coolers could do it too.  They’re a lot longer.

found a review of the card but it’s stat based, and talks about it being an upcoming product.  Date for the article is 2020 https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/palit-geforce-gtx-1650-kalmx-review,1.html

 

They apparently came out though, or at least it appears that way.  There’s an eBay listing for one for $605 which is a lot more than the claimed sub $200 price int the review.  Could be fake I suppose.  It is eBay after all. Looking for a post release review now.  I’m curious how hot it gets.

[StDragon]

If only the CPU cooler was in the shape of a hyperboloid to take advantage of the thermal laminar airflow. Think nuclear reactor cooling tower, or a chiminea.

[Random_Person1234]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s short too. If that short a card would work passive I kinda wonder if one of those Arctic cooler replacement coolers could do it too.  They’re a lot longer.

found a review of the card but it’s stat based, and talks about it being an upcoming product.  Date for the article is 2020 https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/palit-geforce-gtx-1650-kalmx-review,1.html

 

They apparently came out though, or at least it appears that way.  There’s an eBay listing for one for $605 which is a lot more than the claimed sub $200 price int the review.  Could be fake I suppose.  It is eBay after all. Looking for a post release review now.  I’m curious how hot it gets.

In the Noctua video that is linked above in this thread, they do use a GTX 1650 KalmX.

Edit: Actually its the 1050 Ti KalmX, not 1650.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, Random_Person1234 said:

In the Noctua video that is linked above in this thread, they do use a GTX 1650 KalmX.

Edit: Actually its the 1050 Ti KalmX, not 1650.

I didn’t watch that video very far.  The narrator’s voice has a particular use of sibilants I find grating when recorded for whatever reason.  Dunno why.  It just bugs me.   As a result I didn’t watch it for more than a few seconds. 

[GoodBytes]

On 6/15/2021 at 1:46 PM, Bombastinator said:

Not passive.  It has fans.

There you go:

Maybe, LMG team can make a proper mount got the GPU, they seem to have all sort of tooling machines and materials.

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

There you go:

 

There appear to be levels of such things.  Noctua seems to be making a distinction between full and semi passive.  There is full passive in which there are neither fans attached to the cpu or in the case, there is semi passive, in which there are no fans attached to the cpu but there are fans in the case.  Many “passive” coolers in servers are actually semi passive because while there are no fan on the cooler there are still fans in the case.  That was what I think I was referring to.  It is described in the noctua video posted earlier in the thread.  

Edited June 19, 2021 by Bombastinator

[GoodBytes]

16 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There appear to be levels of such things.  Noctua seems to be making a distinction between full and semi passive.  There is full passive in which there are neither fans attached to the cpu or in the case, there is semi passive, in which there are no fans attached to the cpu but there are fans in the case.  Many “passive” coolers in servers are actually semi passive because while there are no fan on the cooler there are still fans in the case.  That was what I think I was referring to.  It is described in the noctua video posted earlier in the thread.  

Right. For true passive there is no choice to have the case help (direct contact with the processor) or be in an open bench setup. A box without fans will eventually get warm and contain heat despite many holes (unless maybe if there are so many holes and large ones, which is pretty much an open bench at this point).

 

But having a case, low pressure fan (of high quality), running at low speed/med speed just to give a scattered breeze of air in the case would help a lot while keeping the system ultra-quiet, would be something to consider/experiment. This should achieve ultra-quietness despite having 1 or 2 fans which will no be noticed (I played with those kind of fans from Noctua in the past, in fact I have them, and even at high speed, they are really quietness. You don't want to put them behind a normal heatsink, they have very low pressure and the air is really scattered.

[RejZoR]

Just now, GoodBytes said:

Right. For true passive there is no choice to have the case help (direct contact with the processor) or be in an open bench setup. A box without fans will eventually get warm and contain heat despite many holes (unless maybe if there are so many holes and large ones, which is pretty much an open bench at this point).

 

But having a case, low pressure fan (of high quality), running at low speed/med speed just to give a scattered breeze would help a lot while keeping the system ultra-quiet.

Case really has to be designed for passive. Whole thing needs to be oriented vertically and lifted from ground enough. This is important so that heat passes out directly in vertical upwards direction, causing cold air to get sucked into the case on the bottom. Most regular cases are front to back or front to top oriented which is no good.

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Case really has to be designed for passive. Whole thing needs to be oriented vertically and lifted from ground enough. This is important so that heat passes out directly in vertical upwards direction, causing cold air to get sucked into the case on the bottom. Most regular cases are front to back or front to top oriented which is no good.

Somewhat... you do have cases that have large opening at the top, and thick legs (with ventilation at the bottom).

You probably want the case on the floor and not on your desk, in any case. Unless you have heated flooring, it normally has cooler air. So, it would help draw cool air from the floor, and vent it out at the top as warm/hot air rises.

[Bombastinator]

15 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Right. For true passive there is no choice to have the case help (direct contact with the processor) or be in an open bench setup. A box without fans will eventually get warm and contain heat despite many holes (unless maybe if there are so many holes and large ones, which is pretty much an open bench at this point).

 

But having a case, low pressure fan (of high quality), running at low speed/med speed just to give a scattered breeze of air in the case would help a lot while keeping the system ultra-quiet, would be something to consider/experiment. This should achieve ultra-quietness despite having 1 or 2 fans which will no be noticed (I played with those kind of fans from Noctua in the past, in fact I have them, and even at high speed, they are really quietness. You don't want to put them behind a normal heatsink, they have very low pressure and the air is really scattered.

Becomes a question of ultra quiet or true zero dba.  The noctua video talks about the heat levels required to run a fully passive system and they appear to be fairly high.  Well above 75c.

Getting the air movement to provide the effect of merely a low speed fan without actually having a fan might be a major project. 

I do sort of wonder how tall a real chimney effect case would need to be while still housing this cooler and a small motherboard and whether or not the system would even have enough btus to drive chimney effect in a case that large.  Just eying it I would think such a case would need to be five foot tall or more, and might need not only a larger cpu but also a larger gpu to add thermal load simply to get enough heat to make a chimney effect work.  Perhaps a custom made full coverage plate to attach a second one of those for a video card which would probably have to be on a riser cable to reduce cross sectional space would do it.  I don’t know.  One could do a smaller chimney with a larger space at the bottom to hold the system though, making a sort of vase shape.  Would still need to be tall though.  Mac chimneys more or less doubled the height of a toaster Mac to get even the perhaps one inch cross section of those chimneys to draw. 

[Bitter]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

There you go:

Maybe, LMG team can make a proper mount got the GPU, they seem to have all sort of tooling machines and materials.

LMG better make a cold plate to hit the memory and VRM too.

[Bombastinator]

Point of irony: the 11900k, the 5800, and the 10700 all seem to be considered effectively similar by this cooler according to the noctua cpu recommendation sheet.