Why there isn't a game like this?

[DanWhite]

Hello, I've been thinking, why there isn't a game that lets you like, start with your character in a low level dungeon without equipment, with a basic club or something(you need to loot to get more obviously) and gives you like a lot possible things to do

 

Like hit enemies with right/left hand, right/left leg, equip a piece of armor in one arm and let you defend/attack with that arm, lure enemies to come into you by launching like a rock then perform a stealth attack

 

If you get like a sword or a dagger let you perform piercing or cutting attacks, let you aim for different parts of the body of the enemy, have a lot of pieces of armor that you can put in different parts of your body to be well protected against different attacks

 

Summarizing a rpg or whatever game, with isometric view or similar, maybe letting you move the camera around, with a looot of options, personalization, lots of combat options as I mentioned above, ways to defend, to attack, let you do whatever you want and have your unique experience. That's what I wanted to say, I know I explain like crap, this most likely is very awful to read and probably nobody is going to do it but as I said I just wanted to say this somewhere, have a good day

[Kaboom1]

The closest to this that i know is the original fallout

[DanWhite]

35 minutes ago, Kaboom1 said:

The closest to this that i know is the original fallout

The original fallout had a lot of options like that?

[Kaboom1]

Well for the combat options at least
I personally got bored and stopped playing it midway through 

[DanWhite]

4 hours ago, Kaboom1 said:

Well for the combat options at least
I personally got bored and stopped playing it midway through 

Well, game's very old

[Ithanul]

Only thing came to mind is some of the very old Ultimas.  Not fancy, but I sure remember Underworld and that damn rat and cheese on the ground, and only having my fist to smack that bloody thing (there is a sword you can find if you look around first).  Or, run in nab that cheese, boogy the hell out, and smack the door close and hope the rat didn't get past the door.  Don't remember targeting specific parts on an enemy though.  Do remember having to hunt for each piece of armor though.

 

But yeah, Fallout lets you do more targeted spots at enemies.  Though, the newer ones let that be an option on engaging the enemies.

[DanWhite]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:55 PM, Ithanul said:

Only thing came to mind is some of the very old Ultimas.  Not fancy, but I sure remember Underworld and that damn rat and cheese on the ground, and only having my fist to smack that bloody thing (there is a sword you can find if you look around first).  Or, run in nab that cheese, boogy the hell out, and smack the door close and hope the rat didn't get past the door.  Don't remember targeting specific parts on an enemy though.  Do remember having to hunt for each piece of armor though.

 

But yeah, Fallout lets you do more targeted spots at enemies.  Though, the newer ones let that be an option on engaging the enemies.

Haha that story of the rat sounds very funny.

 

What I was thinking tho was kinda real time combat, being able to aim in real time at X part and hit it with the arm/leg you want, and perform cutting or piercing attack for example depending on your weapon, it may get kinda complex but if it was for example a skeleton warrior, you could kick or hit its legs to break them, or if it was a living thing, could aim for the neck with piercing attacks for example to make it bleed and lose life over time

 

NOTE: The game would be 3D and in real time probably

[DanWhite]

2 minutes ago, DanWhite said:

Haha that story of the rat sounds very funny.

 

What I was thinking tho was kinda real time combat, being able to aim in real time at X part of the body and hit it with the arm/leg you want, and perform cutting or piercing attack for example depending on your weapon, it may get kinda complex but if it was for example a skeleton warrior, you could kick or hit its legs to break them, or if it was a living thing, could aim for the neck with piercing attacks for example to make it bleed and lose life over time

well i dont see the stupid option to delete this so act like this wasnt here

[Ithanul]

On 5/17/2021 at 9:07 PM, DanWhite said:

Haha that story of the rat sounds very funny.

 

What I was thinking tho was kinda real time combat, being able to aim in real time at X part and hit it with the arm/leg you want, and perform cutting or piercing attack for example depending on your weapon, it may get kinda complex but if it was for example a skeleton warrior, you could kick or hit its legs to break them, or if it was a living thing, could aim for the neck with piercing attacks for example to make it bleed and lose life over time

Hmmmmmm, maybe Dead Space then.

 

The cutter in that game can take off limbs.  That probably the closest I can think of to that concept in an actual game.

Though, best I can recall the cutter is restricted to just doing limbs.

[DanWhite]

1 hour ago, Ithanul said:

Hmmmmmm, maybe Dead Space then.

 

The cutter in that game can take off limbs.  That probably the closest I can think of to that concept in an actual game.

Though, best I can recall the cutter is restricted to just doing limbs.

A Dead Space, I see, I've seen youtubers play the games in the past, they look like very nice games. Btw, would you like a game that gives you the posibilities and freedom that I describe in the post?

[Ithanul]

15 hours ago, DanWhite said:

A Dead Space, I see, I've seen youtubers play the games in the past, they look like very nice games. Btw, would you like a game that gives you the posibilities and freedom that I describe in the post?

Probably depends on what the whole game is.

Personally myself, I tend to play slower games or top downs by habit.

 

Hmmm, maybe if in VR, that would be a bit interesting game mechanic there.  As I do find Beat Saber fun, and it takes in account how you hit the incoming note blocks to calculate out the points (angle, speed, travel distance before and after the hit).

[YoungBlade]

I'm not a professional game developer, but I've coded a number of games across several game jams. As I read your list, I got quickly overwhelmed at the amount of work involved in making a game like that.

 

Let's just look at the very first part of the concept-

On 5/17/2021 at 7:14 AM, DanWhite said:

Like hit enemies with right/left hand, right/left leg

What are the controls for that game going to look like? (For a PC game, you are going to need keyboard and mouse controls, so we'll ignore a controller for now.)

 

Let's say we're going to use the left and right mouse buttons for left punch and right punch. How do you kick? I guess you could use Shift+Mouse 1 for left leg and Shift+Mouse 2 for right leg. But I'd imagine that we want to have sprinting be a mechanic, and usually Shift is the button for sprint. But if you're sprinting and need to quickly attack something, you'd automatically use a kick. If you've equipped something like a sword, that would be bad. So let's use Control instead. Of course, that means that we can't use Control for crouch, because in a game like this, you'd probably want to have crouching as a dodging option in combat. You don't want to crouch every time you kick. So I guess we could use Alt for the kicking. However, most people don't click Alt with their pinky finger, so that will limit what you can do while kicking. If you press Alt with your thumb, you can't also jump with Space, but a jump kick is almost certainly something a player would expect in this type of game.

 

I'm not saying a scheme couldn't be created - it absolutely could - but we're one line in and already I'm having trouble figuring out how to do the control scheme without making too many compromises, and we haven't even gotten to your next part about defending with an equipped item on a specific limb. What keys are you going to use for that?

 

Games like this are actually really hard to make well, and yet most players aren't going to care about the level of detail. They just want to kill things, and if the control scheme takes a while to learn, it doesn't matter how much depth it offers, because 90% will just quit after 5 minutes if they can't figure it out. Which is probably why there aren't many like it.

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

On 5/17/2021 at 12:14 PM, DanWhite said:

Hello, I've been thinking, why there isn't a game that lets you like, start with your character in a low level dungeon without equipment, with a basic club or something(you need to loot to get more obviously) and gives you like a lot possible things to do

 

Like hit enemies with right/left hand, right/left leg, equip a piece of armor in one arm and let you defend/attack with that arm, lure enemies to come into you by launching like a rock then perform a stealth attack

 

If you get like a sword or a dagger let you perform piercing or cutting attacks, let you aim for different parts of the body of the enemy, have a lot of pieces of armor that you can put in different parts of your body to be well protected against different attacks

 

Summarizing a rpg or whatever game, with isometric view or similar, maybe letting you move the camera around, with a looot of options, personalization, lots of combat options as I mentioned above, ways to defend, to attack, let you do whatever you want and have your unique experience. That's what I wanted to say, I know I explain like crap, this most likely is very awful to read and probably nobody is going to do it but as I said I just wanted to say this somewhere, have a good day

Sounds a bit like a Dark Souls type but from a Diablo perspective. 

[kitnoman]

I don’t remember it very well but I think the ps1 vagrant story has the targeting of specific body part mechanics and some of your idea. 
 

But with your concept of gameplay, I think the only way is when vr advances. Or in a controller, you’ll use the joystick to swing your arms(with or without a weapon) just like in fightnight(boxing). Or the steam controller as it has two trackpad and your action can be perform with a simply swipe or flick like on a mobile game.

[DanWhite]

On 5/22/2021 at 5:30 PM, YoungBlade said:

I'm not a professional game developer, but I've coded a number of games across several game jams. As I read your list, I got quickly overwhelmed at the amount of work involved in making a game like that.

 

Let's just look at the very first part of the concept-

What are the controls for that game going to look like? (For a PC game, you are going to need keyboard and mouse controls, so we'll ignore a controller for now.)

 

Let's say we're going to use the left and right mouse buttons for left punch and right punch. How do you kick? I guess you could use Shift+Mouse 1 for left leg and Shift+Mouse 2 for right leg. But I'd imagine that we want to have sprinting be a mechanic, and usually Shift is the button for sprint. But if you're sprinting and need to quickly attack something, you'd automatically use a kick. If you've equipped something like a sword, that would be bad. So let's use Control instead. Of course, that means that we can't use Control for crouch, because in a game like this, you'd probably want to have crouching as a dodging option in combat. You don't want to crouch every time you kick. So I guess we could use Alt for the kicking. However, most people don't click Alt with their pinky finger, so that will limit what you can do while kicking. If you press Alt with your thumb, you can't also jump with Space, but a jump kick is almost certainly something a player would expect in this type of game.

 

I'm not saying a scheme couldn't be created - it absolutely could - but we're one line in and already I'm having trouble figuring out how to do the control scheme without making too many compromises, and we haven't even gotten to your next part about defending with an equipped item on a specific limb. What keys are you going to use for that?

 

Games like this are actually really hard to make well, and yet most players aren't going to care about the level of detail. They just want to kill things, and if the control scheme takes a while to learn, it doesn't matter how much depth it offers, because 90% will just quit after 5 minutes if they can't figure it out. Which is probably why there aren't many like it.

What about (something like, doesn't have to be 100% like that) left mouse button to attack, RMB to defend, then you would have each limb attached to a key, so you press the keys of the limbs you want to use then you press attack or defend button.In my mind something like that could work but maybe I'm just completely delusional

[DanWhite]

On 5/22/2021 at 5:30 PM, YoungBlade said:

I'm not a professional game developer, but I've coded a number of games across several game jams. As I read your list, I got quickly overwhelmed at the amount of work involved in making a game like that.

 

Let's just look at the very first part of the concept-

What are the controls for that game going to look like? (For a PC game, you are going to need keyboard and mouse controls, so we'll ignore a controller for now.)

 

Let's say we're going to use the left and right mouse buttons for left punch and right punch. How do you kick? I guess you could use Shift+Mouse 1 for left leg and Shift+Mouse 2 for right leg. But I'd imagine that we want to have sprinting be a mechanic, and usually Shift is the button for sprint. But if you're sprinting and need to quickly attack something, you'd automatically use a kick. If you've equipped something like a sword, that would be bad. So let's use Control instead. Of course, that means that we can't use Control for crouch, because in a game like this, you'd probably want to have crouching as a dodging option in combat. You don't want to crouch every time you kick. So I guess we could use Alt for the kicking. However, most people don't click Alt with their pinky finger, so that will limit what you can do while kicking. If you press Alt with your thumb, you can't also jump with Space, but a jump kick is almost certainly something a player would expect in this type of game.

 

I'm not saying a scheme couldn't be created - it absolutely could - but we're one line in and already I'm having trouble figuring out how to do the control scheme without making too many compromises, and we haven't even gotten to your next part about defending with an equipped item on a specific limb. What keys are you going to use for that?

 

Games like this are actually really hard to make well, and yet most players aren't going to care about the level of detail. They just want to kill things, and if the control scheme takes a while to learn, it doesn't matter how much depth it offers, because 90% will just quit after 5 minutes if they can't figure it out. Which is probably why there aren't many like it.

And since you mostly would not be defending with your legs, the keys attached to legs probably would just be for attacking, also RMB could just be defend with your shield if you have one, not needing to press the key of the arm that has the shield but, if you press the key attached to the arm that has your weapon and press RMB to defend, could be a defensive move to deflect enemy weapon/parry

[YoungBlade]

10 hours ago, DanWhite said:

What about (something like, doesn't have to be 100% like that) left mouse button to attack, RMB to defend, then you would have each limb attached to a key, so you press the keys of the limbs you want to use then you press attack or defend button.In my mind something like that could work but maybe I'm just completely delusional

Like I said, there certainly could be a way to make a control scheme that works well. My point was that just doing that would already be something rather complicated. For a real studio, it would probably require a lot of play-testing to sort out a solid default control scheme. But that's just one aspect of the gameplay.

 

On 5/17/2021 at 7:14 AM, DanWhite said:

lure enemies to come into you by launching like a rock then perform a stealth attack

This sort of mechanic is harder to pull off today than it once was, because players are looking for good AI. In the old days, this would've been easy, because it was okay for guards to be complete idiots. Just get the point in space where the rock made contact with a wall or floor, have a radius where guards "hear" the rock, and then have them walk until they are 0.5m away and look at the point the rock hit. The guards then stare at that spot like buffoons while the player takes them out. This made for a satisfying gameplay experience in the 90s and early 2000s, because in those days, that passed for "decent" AI.

 

Nowadays, you'd have to be better about making the AI seem intelligent, while still making the mechanic satisfying to use. If the guards are too smart, then the mechanic won't work, and could even hinder the player if the guards then enter a "search" state, trying to find out what happened. If the guards are too dumb, the player laughs at how ludicrous it is and soon gets bored by how OP throwing a rock is.

 

Again, it isn't that such a thing is impossible to get right. It actually seems like it would be easier than the control scheme now that I'm thinking about it. But every mechanic requires additional work for balancing and play-testing, and has to be compared against all of the others. No one thing in a game can be taken in isolation. Even AAA games can get this wrong.

 

Take Control, for example. One of the biggest complaints I've heard is that the weapons were not thought through well enough. A big problem is that both the shotgun and machine gun have wide spreads and they both unload the whole clip really fast. This makes them both short-range, burst weapons. In a game that released with only 5 types of gun, why do two of them fill the same niche? If they had done more play-testing, someone would've pointed this out, and they could've reworked one or both of them.

 

That said, I love Control, and no game is perfect. Given enough time, I'm sure a game that offers seemingly endless choice in combat will be created. Hopefully, it is well received and inspires many more. I like the idea, too. But when I think about making a game that gives the player tons of choice, as much fun as such a thing might be in theory, I think it would be a nightmare to actually bring to market. And I worry that, in the end, most players will just complain that the game is needlessly complicated, and want something simpler.

 

While Minecraft is now the best selling game of all time, before that it was Tetris. And while plenty of Minecraft players love to create and explore, myself included, there's a reason that "Survival Mode" is the definitive way to play instead of "Creative Mode," and later on, "Adventure Mode" was created. Sometimes, players actually want less freedom in their games.

[DanWhite]

4 hours ago, YoungBlade said:

Like I said, there certainly could be a way to make a control scheme that works well. My point was that just doing that would already be something rather complicated. For a real studio, it would probably require a lot of play-testing to sort out a solid default control scheme. But that's just one aspect of the gameplay.

 

This sort of mechanic is harder to pull off today than it once was, because players are looking for good AI. In the old days, this would've been easy, because it was okay for guards to be complete idiots. Just get the point in space where the rock made contact with a wall or floor, have a radius where guards "hear" the rock, and then have them walk until they are 0.5m away and look at the point the rock hit. The guards then stare at that spot like buffoons while the player takes them out. This made for a satisfying gameplay experience in the 90s and early 2000s, because in those days, that passed for "decent" AI.

 

Nowadays, you'd have to be better about making the AI seem intelligent, while still making the mechanic satisfying to use. If the guards are too smart, then the mechanic won't work, and could even hinder the player if the guards then enter a "search" state, trying to find out what happened. If the guards are too dumb, the player laughs at how ludicrous it is and soon gets bored by how OP throwing a rock is.

 

Again, it isn't that such a thing is impossible to get right. It actually seems like it would be easier than the control scheme now that I'm thinking about it. But every mechanic requires additional work for balancing and play-testing, and has to be compared against all of the others. No one thing in a game can be taken in isolation. Even AAA games can get this wrong.

 

Take Control, for example. One of the biggest complaints I've heard is that the weapons were not thought through well enough. A big problem is that both the shotgun and machine gun have wide spreads and they both unload the whole clip really fast. This makes them both short-range, burst weapons. In a game that released with only 5 types of gun, why do two of them fill the same niche? If they had done more play-testing, someone would've pointed this out, and they could've reworked one or both of them.

 

That said, I love Control, and no game is perfect. Given enough time, I'm sure a game that offers seemingly endless choice in combat will be created. Hopefully, it is well received and inspires many more. I like the idea, too. But when I think about making a game that gives the player tons of choice, as much fun as such a thing might be in theory, I think it would be a nightmare to actually bring to market. And I worry that, in the end, most players will just complain that the game is needlessly complicated, and want something simpler.

 

While Minecraft is now the best selling game of all time, before that it was Tetris. And while plenty of Minecraft players love to create and explore, myself included, there's a reason that "Survival Mode" is the definitive way to play instead of "Creative Mode," and later on, "Adventure Mode" was created. Sometimes, players actually want less freedom in their games.

Well you don't need to use all the options to play the game right, you just can go the way you want, having a lot of ways and tools to do things doesn't mean that you need to do them in every way possible using every tool you have, just that you different ways to perform X thing, I don't see how can that add difficulty to the game

[DanWhite]

4 hours ago, YoungBlade said:

Like I said, there certainly could be a way to make a control scheme that works well. My point was that just doing that would already be something rather complicated. For a real studio, it would probably require a lot of play-testing to sort out a solid default control scheme. But that's just one aspect of the gameplay.

 

This sort of mechanic is harder to pull off today than it once was, because players are looking for good AI. In the old days, this would've been easy, because it was okay for guards to be complete idiots. Just get the point in space where the rock made contact with a wall or floor, have a radius where guards "hear" the rock, and then have them walk until they are 0.5m away and look at the point the rock hit. The guards then stare at that spot like buffoons while the player takes them out. This made for a satisfying gameplay experience in the 90s and early 2000s, because in those days, that passed for "decent" AI.

 

Nowadays, you'd have to be better about making the AI seem intelligent, while still making the mechanic satisfying to use. If the guards are too smart, then the mechanic won't work, and could even hinder the player if the guards then enter a "search" state, trying to find out what happened. If the guards are too dumb, the player laughs at how ludicrous it is and soon gets bored by how OP throwing a rock is.

 

Again, it isn't that such a thing is impossible to get right. It actually seems like it would be easier than the control scheme now that I'm thinking about it. But every mechanic requires additional work for balancing and play-testing, and has to be compared against all of the others. No one thing in a game can be taken in isolation. Even AAA games can get this wrong.

 

Take Control, for example. One of the biggest complaints I've heard is that the weapons were not thought through well enough. A big problem is that both the shotgun and machine gun have wide spreads and they both unload the whole clip really fast. This makes them both short-range, burst weapons. In a game that released with only 5 types of gun, why do two of them fill the same niche? If they had done more play-testing, someone would've pointed this out, and they could've reworked one or both of them.

 

That said, I love Control, and no game is perfect. Given enough time, I'm sure a game that offers seemingly endless choice in combat will be created. Hopefully, it is well received and inspires many more. I like the idea, too. But when I think about making a game that gives the player tons of choice, as much fun as such a thing might be in theory, I think it would be a nightmare to actually bring to market. And I worry that, in the end, most players will just complain that the game is needlessly complicated, and want something simpler.

 

While Minecraft is now the best selling game of all time, before that it was Tetris. And while plenty of Minecraft players love to create and explore, myself included, there's a reason that "Survival Mode" is the definitive way to play instead of "Creative Mode," and later on, "Adventure Mode" was created. Sometimes, players actually want less freedom in their games.

And for the AI, the mechanics and the control scheme, I understand that it would be hard to pull off these days I guess