Are Bucking Springs worthwhile?

[whm1974]

So I was wondering if Modern Bucking Springs KB were better to get for general usage. However Unicomp is the only Company I'm aware that even uses them in their Keyboards. The Brand does have some drawbacks, lack of backlighting, limited N-key Rollover, no Fn key, etc...

 

I swear back in 80's you could take the Model F and M and beat the living shit out of someone, plug them back in, and they will still work... The Casing might be cracked, but still work... They really don't make them like they used to...

 

https://techreport.com/review/33681/unicomps-ultra-classic-buckling-spring-keyboard-reviewed/

[Bananasplit_00]

writing this on my model M, i dont really think they are worth it unless you really love the sound. I got mine for fairly cheap but it was really not as good as the hype would have you belive, at least not mine. Sure the keys are smooth and the sound is classic but the tactility is way lacking for my taste at least(usiually use JWK/Durok T1 switches) and they are quite heavy to type on. Also this thing is much larger than you expect, it dosnt look nearly as large on video as it feels on your desk imo

[whm1974]

4 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

writing this on my model M, i dont really think they are worth it unless you really love the sound. I got mine for fairly cheap but it was really not as good as the hype would have you belive, at least not mine. Sure the keys are smooth and the sound is classic but the tactility is way lacking for my taste at least(usiually use JWK/Durok T1 switches) and they are quite heavy to type on. Also this thing is much larger than you expect, it dosnt look nearly as large on video as it feels on your desk imo

Looking at their Site they offer a newer, sleeker, smaller design. To be honest I do enjoy using my Kailh Blue based AZIO Retro. However it doesn't have Backlighting... And the Keycaps can be lost.

[Admiral Shark]

Better than vintage buckling springs or other switches? If the former, Unicomps are simply easier to 'plug and play' unless you have a PS/2 port (and of course much more hassle free compared to dealing with terminal Ms). The core tech behind Unicomp's Ms is the same as the final Model Ms produced by Lexmark (P/N 42H1292, from 1995 onwards) and thus share many of their typing feel characteristics. That's to the say, IMO, it's good enough. Unicomp's value is that its get a warranty and they offer some customisation. They're not as heavy or as sturdy as the oldest Ms from the mid-'80s, but as someone who owns many Ms from all periods, I still think Unicomps are enjoyable and in fact my best feeling M is a Unicomp (2013 General Electric Healthcare branded 101-key). From the current range though, I'd only recommend the New Model M and Mini Model M since they're made with their latest tooling, and the PC-122 if you want a lot of keys to play with. The rest are made with tooling bought from Lexmark and from scavenging from the other IBM factories as they discontinued their production.

 

If you mean compared to other switches, then that's tricky to answer. If you're looking for a satisfying click and smooth tactility above all else, Model Ms can still blow away most of the modern competition, IMO. But, they're quite heavy switches and not the strongest in terms of tactility (the draw for Model M fans is how the tactility is generated, not how much of it exists). The closest modern analogue is probably Kailh BOX Pale Blues, but even then, its not an exact equivelant experience. To be honest, people who buy Model Ms don't buy them for the switches alone - it's for the whole package of the vintage and utilitarian looks and as you said its alternative use as a weapon. The fact that you categorised the lack of backlighting as a "drawback" tells me that these are maybe not the keyboard for you. But, it's not impossible to mod backlighting in if you so desired.

 

In terms of the KRO technical limitations - all Model Ms (new and old) suffer since they're membrane driven keyboards. Unicomp's new Mini Model M migitates this somewhat with its improved matrix design, but if you want NKRO and buckling springs, a (more pricy) Model F is your only option.

[whm1974]

12 minutes ago, SharktasticA said:

In terms of the KRO technical limitations - all Model Ms (new and old) suffer since they're membrane driven keyboards. Unicomp's new Mini Model M migitates this somewhat with its improved matrix design, but if you want NKRO and buckling springs, a (more pricy) Model F is your only option.

Membrane? Aren't Bucking Springs Mechanical Switches?

[whm1974]

2 minutes ago, James Evens said:

Take a look at modern click bar designs (e.g. kailh box). Model M is distinctive in it's feel but click bar give you all the advantages of modern keyboards paired with a very similiar feel or if wanted superior tactility.

Side note: A common issue with model M are the plastic rivets holding the membrane onto the steel plate but it can be fixed.

 

@whm1974 Buckling springs are membrane. You probably thought about rubber dome.

Thanks I will look into Kailh BOX. Basically I want Clicky, Smooth, and Tactile. With Backlighting. My AZIO is the first keyboard I owned that uses MX Switches.

 

I recall taking Computer Classes in High School and the Keyboards of the Apple IIe and IBM XT/AT drove quite a few Students out of them Room... They couldn't stand the sound of Click, Click, and CLACK of said Keyboards being used.

[Admiral Shark]

1 hour ago, whm1974 said:

Membrane? Aren't Bucking Springs Mechanical Switches?

"Mechanical" isn't really a logical/properly defined term. At most, it means "high quality" or 'expensive' switch. People do argue whether Model Ms (which are heralded by some as the ultimate mechs) are mechanical or not, but it's a debate that's unlikely to end and you really shouldn't care about it.

 

In the case of Model Ms, the switch design is a buckling spring that hammers onto a membrane contact sheet. Membranes paired with rubber domes are what usually people consider "non-mechanical" since it's usually a lackluster combination. But, membrane does not equal rubber dome. Anyway, by contrast for Model Fs, the switch design is a buckling spring that hammers onto a capacitance-sensing PCB which is what gives Model Fs NKRO. But despite that (lack of) resultant property, membranes in this context are nothing to really worry about since you can't feel their presence in this design. They're just the circuit component of a larger switch design.

[Toadtoad]

I've only used the Unicomp Model M for a few hours, borrowed from a friend, but from that experience, I'd say it's not for most people. For one, it takes up so much space. I already wanted to shift away from my fullsize, and the Model M was even bigger. I also noticed quite a few inconsistencies between keys, but it could've just been that unit. I personally liked the keyfeel in general, however, but not enough to warrant me switching from my keyboard at the time. And, of course, it's built like a tank

 

If you are able to try it out and one point, and love the sound and tactility enough to sacrifice a significant amount of desk space, I think it could be a pretty good choice. But it's big enough that, for most people, I would argue against it.

[whm1974]

7 minutes ago, Toadtoad said:

I've only used the Unicomp Model M for a few hours, borrowed from a friend, but from that experience, I'd say it's not for most people. For one, it takes up so much space. I already wanted to shift away from my fullsize, and the Model M was even bigger. I also noticed quite a few inconsistencies between keys, but it could've just been that unit. I personally liked the keyfeel in general, however, but not enough to warrant me switching from my keyboard at the time. And, of course, it's built like a tank

 

If you are able to try it out and one point, and love the sound and tactility enough to sacrifice a significant amount of desk space, I think it could be a pretty good choice. But it's big enough that, for most people, I would argue against it.

Well Unicomp does now have a M Mini and the New Model M which is a bit smaller.

 

I wonder is it possible to have the same or close to the same feel and sound in a MX Switch?

[Admiral Shark]

15 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

I wonder is it possible to have the same or close to the same feel and sound in a MX Switch?

As I said/implied before, not really. No stock Cherry MX switch is close (MX Green only gets close in terms of weighting), and out of the clones/developments from MX, Kailh BOX Pale Blues are perhaps the closest since it's very clicky, doesn't have over-the-top tactility and but still feels heavier than most switches. But, neither MX click jackets or BOX click bars are a good approximate to buckling springs. I'm not saying modern clickies are necessarily bad - I totally love Kailh BOX clickies and they're head and shoulders above standard MX clickies. But same or close to buckling springs? No, unfortunately. The mechanisms are just too different.

 

And the fact of the matter is if such buckling springs 'clone' existed for modern keyboards and were accessible to everyone, you'd likely already know about it since it'd be big news.

[whm1974]

Just now, SharktasticA said:

And the fact of the matter is if such buckling springs 'clone' existed for modern keyboards and were accessible to everyone, you'd already know about it since it'd be big news.

Unless it is a very Company with not much room in the Budget for Marketing.

[Admiral Shark]

6 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Unless it is a very Company with not much room in the Budget for Marketing.

That's a valid consideration, but I'd still feel news about them would spread like wildfire. There'd be so many communities that could hype over, be aware of, or have some investment in such a switch (modern keyboards, vintage keyboards, PCMR, vintage PC folk, professional typists, etc.) and there's large crossover between all of them.

 

Anyway, at least from my experience, I haven't encountered such a unicorn (yet). Hopefully, someone can prove me wrong.

[whm1974]

2 hours ago, SharktasticA said:

That's a valid consideration, but I'd still feel news about them would spread like wildfire. There'd be so many communities that could hype over, be aware of, or have some investment in such a switch (modern keyboards, vintage keyboards, PCMR, vintage PC folk, professional typists, etc.) and there's large crossover between all of them.

 

Anyway, at least from my experience, I haven't encountered such a unicorn (yet). Hopefully, someone can prove me wrong.

Too bad I'm not filthy rich... I would Fund development of something like this.