Topping D10 Sounding bad

[Viktor277]

Supposedly, it must sound better than any onboard sound card on any motherboard, but upon further testing the sound in confined and stereo depth is bad compared to motherboard, and i thought motherboard was bad. Only thing thats better is tighter bass and no audible distorsion. I'm using the same cable for both comparisons.

[OfficialTechSpace]

42 minutes ago, Viktor277 said:

but upon further testing the sound in confined and stereo depth is bad compared to motherboard

Define stereo depth, what does that mean to you?

All a DAC does is take a digital signal and convert it to analog for a cleaner output to an amplifier. The only tangible difference between DAC's is the cleanliness of the conversion (lower end DACs performing worse in this regard; in terms of distortion, jitter & noise).

 

Also, what headphones are you using? What Amp? What music through what source?

[Viktor277]

1 hour ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

Define stereo depth, what does that mean to you?

All a DAC does is take a digital signal and convert it to analog for a cleaner output to an amplifier. The only tangible difference between DAC's is the cleanliness of the conversion (lower end DACs performing worse in this regard; in terms of distortion, jitter & noise).

 

Also, what headphones are you using? What Amp? What music through what source?

I'm not using headphones. I'm using speakers, JBL Professional 8330, with Harman Kardon PM645, connected to Topping D10. Stereo depth is what i can describe as the way instrumentals are presented and other musical characters, they way they spread out through the room. Before mid range, the instrumentals, were more forward interpreted, if that makes sense, now they are like pushed back. I called it stereo depth because it made sense to me that way lol, i probably used the wrong terminology.

[OfficialTechSpace]

34 minutes ago, Viktor277 said:

Before mid range, the instrumentals were more forward, now they are like pushed back.

This makes sense, but isn't depth measured by how distant something is? In which case the the instrumentals would be presented as pushed back rather than forward, and on purpose because they'd have more depth, not less. If this is correct (for all we know) you may have just grown accustomed to how your sound card presents itself (in its more forward manor), and may just need time to adjust to the sound of the DAC.

 

This could be a few things, possibly only time will tell once you get used to the sound of the D10

[geo3]

Also check your audio settings in windows. It will detect the DAC as a different device and may apply different settings. There might have been some EQ or DSP applied to your onboard device, especially if you were using the proprietary driver for that device. 

[Viktor277]

3 hours ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

This makes sense, but isn't depth measured by how distant something is? In which case the the instrumentals would be presented as pushed back rather than forward, and on purpose because they'd have more depth, not less. If this is correct (for all we know) you may have just grown accustomed to how your sound card presents itself (in its more forward manor), and may just need time to adjust to the sound of the DAC.

 

This could be a few things, possibly only time will tell once you get used to the sound of the D10

Could be true that sound of a D10 needs to "grow" on me. Nothing wrong with the way it sounds, i just miss that forwardness and presence of the sound, if i can describe it that way. It's more laid back now, maybe i preffered faster pace of the previous source.

I understand that, but they way they were before, forward, was much more pleasnt sounding. I double checked the crossover on the speakers and drivers itself, all in great condition. Because some people say that capacitors deteriorate over time, i was lucky that i got 30yo speakers that were barely used (do caps deteriorate even if they aren't used?), and after they replaced caps on their speakers they sounded good again. I set wasapi exclusive event to aimp3 in best possible quality.

[da na]

Unfortunately I have had 2 Topping amps and they have both died within a year. I don't really trust the brand since I've had several problems with their hardware. I hope that's not your problem though.

[Viktor277]

3 hours ago, geo3 said:

Also check your audio settings in windows. It will detect the DAC as a different device and may apply different settings. There might have been some EQ or DSP applied to your onboard device, especially if you were using the proprietary driver for that device. 

I checked and none sound enhancement programs were on. I had a hell of a time trying to install D10 drivers, everyone is complaining that the new 5.00 version isn't working properly. And yeah, even with proper drivers it made very little difference.

[Viktor277]

3 minutes ago, wat3rmelon_man2 said:

Unfortunately I have had 2 Topping amps and they have both died within a year. I don't really trust the brand since I've had several problems with their hardware. I hope that's not your problem though.

Well, i bought it as "used-just opened like brand new".. As the D10s is very hard to find where i'm from, i was lucky that i got D10 for a fair price.

[rice guru]

48 minutes ago, Viktor277 said:

Well, i bought it as "used-just opened like brand new".. As the D10s is very hard to find where i'm from, i was lucky that i got D10 for a fair price.

the d10 is near flawless for retail price. not sure why sound is sounding confined though I run the same dac for my speakers and compared to onboard it sounds better and slightly worse than my newer similarly priced DAC. have you installed the drivers for it yet?https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/474829.html

edit: just noticed you are using the proper drivers. honestly you may just need some brain burn in and let yourself get used to the sound. 

 

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, wat3rmelon_man2 said:

Unfortunately I have had 2 Topping amps and they have both died within a year. I don't really trust the brand since I've had several problems with their hardware. I hope that's not your problem though.

thier recent products particularly the the l30 havent been as reliable in the past .amp wise I tend to avoid them. DAC wise I generally have no issues with them its rare for a DAC to cause issues

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, Viktor277 said:

Could be true that sound of a D10 needs to "grow" on me. Nothing wrong with the way it sounds, i just miss that forwardness and presence of the sound, if i can describe it that way. It's more laid back now, maybe i preffered faster pace of the previous source.

I understand that, but they way they were before, forward, was much more pleasnt sounding. I double checked the crossover on the speakers and drivers itself, all in great condition. Because some people say that capacitors deteriorate over time, i was lucky that i got 30yo speakers that were barely used (do caps deteriorate even if they aren't used?), and after they replaced caps on their speakers they sounded good again. I set wasapi exclusive event to aimp3 in best possible quality.

that's a odd one the d10 tends to be on the more neutral side of things but I have heard it described elsewhere where the reviewer percieved it to lacking some attack in the bass region and treble making it a more mid forward DAC. to me it just sounds neutral. so my theory is if you arent afraid to do a bit of eq I would play around with a bit of eq in the low and and treble to get some of the bite and attack back

 

[Viktor277]

2 hours ago, rice guru said:

that's a odd one the d10 tends to be on the more neutral side of things but I have heard it described elsewhere where the reviewer percieved it to lacking some attack in the bass region and treble making it a more mid forward DAC. to me it just sounds neutral. so my theory is if you arent afraid to do a bit of eq I would play around with a bit of eq in the low and and treble to get some of the bite and attack back

 

I've been using same eq for the last year or two, haven't really tried to tune it any further, i always left the bass side of the eq flat, and usually boosted treble, here's how it looks:

[mrbaritonefreak]

A little off topic, but I actually found that the OPA2134 included by Topping visually does not match the ones from mouser. 

 

Unfortunately my mouser 2134 was fried by a whammy build so I've only compared the topping one to SMD versions of the 2134 with a brown dog adapter.

I'm not the best at describing sound in all honesty, but I liked vocals on the SMD version better, but there wasn't much change to the overall midrange. The least I can say was there was more difference than I expected, but it was still quite minor. 

 

Op-amp rolling the d10 is pretty fun though. If your not happy with it now I'd recommend trying out some others, just don't go crazy with something like burson or dual opa627s. Both are over the top and don't sound all that great in the d10 imo.

 

(sorry for the dust in the pictures)

 

[rice guru]

9 hours ago, Viktor277 said:

I've been using same eq for the last year or two, haven't really tried to tune it any further, i always left the bass side of the eq flat, and usually boosted treble, here's how it looks:

I would try the DAc without the eq for a while. honestl what I interpreted from your sound impressions is soundstage got wider and overall presentation probably got more accurate than your motherboard. but ther eq which is pretty aggressive V could be contributing a bit to certain things sounding farther away. 

[OfficialTechSpace]

22 hours ago, Viktor277 said:

I've been using same eq for the last year or two, haven't really tried to tune it any further, i always left the bass side of the eq flat, and usually boosted treble, here's how it looks:

Why would you ever use an EQ? The only reason I didn't ask that in my original response was because I thought you knew better than that

Unless you're experiencing issues with the stock sound, you shouldn't ever need to touch one, nor should you.

 

The only time an EQ is acceptable is when you're trying to DSP tune out some flaws in your audio setup, or tune to match the Harmon curve IEF neutral taget.

 

That's definitely part of your sound issue, nothing should be boosted or drawn back unless (like I said) there are issues with leaving it stock.

[rice guru]

2 hours ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

The only time an EQ is acceptable is when you're trying to DSP tune out some flaws in your audio setup, or tune to match the Harmon curve.

I take issue with this part of the statement. eq can be great if you are stuck with headphones or speakers and like how they sound for the most part but want to adgjust it slightly. and harmon curve isn't 1. conventionally neutral,2. and is not something everybody likes. I say all that owning several harman tuned IEMS. but still eq have many applications.

[OfficialTechSpace]

1 hour ago, rice guru said:

I take issue with this part of the statement. eq can be great if you are stuck with headphones or speakers and like how they sound for the most part but want to adgjust it slightly.

That is true, I do take note of that, but for whatever reason my OCD doesn't enjoy knowing there's some sort of electronic filter over my audio, so that's where my bias comes from.

1 hour ago, rice guru said:

and harmon curve isn't 1. conventionally neutral,2. and is not something everybody likes.

Also true, tbh I think I meant to say the 'IEF neutral target', but I said 'Harmon Curve' because I got the two confused in the moment, but I agree.

[rice guru]

29 minutes ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

That is true, I do take note of that, but for whatever reason my OCD doesn't enjoy knowing there's some sort of electronic filter over my audio, so that's where my bias comes from.

Im in the same boat I dont like eq as a collector because I buy headphones for all of the headphones traits and eq changes that so I tend to avoid it. 

[Viktor277]

18 hours ago, rice guru said:

Im in the same boat I dont like eq as a collector because I buy headphones for all of the headphones traits and eq changes that so I tend to avoid it. 

 

19 hours ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

That is true, I do take note of that, but for whatever reason my OCD doesn't enjoy knowing there's some sort of electronic filter over my audio, so that's where my bias comes from.

Also true, tbh I think I meant to say the 'IEF neutral target', but I said 'Harmon Curve' because I got the two confused in the moment, but I agree.

I finally got it.. you said that room treatment is very important? Well i tried to remember my room setup and yeah, i removed big carpet from my room, leaving the floors naked. Immediately after putting it back sound was so much better.. Now when it comes to eq i listen to them sometimes without it, but in my room it kind of needs it.