Safety as DLC? Motorcycle Airbag vest will not deploy if you miss a payment

[rcmaehl]

Summary

Manufacturer Klim's airbag vest is designed not to deploy if a payment is missed. 

 

Media

 

 

Quotes

Quote

Motorcycling isn’t exactly the safest..., but modern technology has managed to make it far safer than ever before. Advancements like clothing with... airbags helping to make crashes... survivable. Modern technology has also given...a motorcycle airbag vest that only works if your monthly...subscription is up-to-date. The Klim Ai-1 airbag vest... uses an internet-connected component called the In&Box that does all of the complex sensing..needed to know when you... need some airbags deployed. The box is paired with the wearer’s phone... and works with Klim’s app that manages the vest and connects your vest to your In&Motion account. Klim is selling this: $399 for the basic vest, then if you want it to actually... work, you have to pay a $12/month subscription fee, or... $120 per year. Can you just pay the $399 and it just works and you don’t need the subscription, or does the $12/month mean you don’t pay up front? I asked one of their online reps,... Shelby.
 

Jason Torchinsky 01:48:34 pm: Hello! Can you please explain how the subscription model works for the airbag vest?

Shelby 01:49:46 pm: 3a. Choose from $12/month or $120/year subscription options, which include unlimited In&Box warranty, anytime cancellations, VIP support services, and a new In&Box after 3 years.

3b. Or choose the $399 one-time purchasing option which includes 2-year warranty and classic support services.These are the 2 subscriptions options.

Jason Torchinsky 01:50:13 pm so $399 and it always works, as long as I have it?

Shelby 01:51:23 pm You will pay the $399.99 and then the subscription fee of your choosing

Jason Torchinsky 01:51:32 pm oh I see. So, for the vest to be active and work, it’s $12/mo or $120/yr. What happens if I like lose my credit card and a bill cycle comes and it doesn’t go through? I guess then when I ride my bike the vest won’t work until I fix the CC issue?

Shelby 01:55:30 pm correct, you will need to update it with In&Motion they should notify you if that occurs

Jason Torchinsky 01:55:39 pm okay, is there any point where it’s “paid off” and just works? or always subscription?

Shelby 01:56:05 pm it is subscription based at this point

After paying $400 for the vest, you can “unlock” it by either paying another $399 or... 12/month. Either way you have to pay more to make it actually work. But the idea of important safety equipment potentially not working because...you lost your credit card and had to cancel it or you had a one-time financial demand that pushed you into overdraft or a card expires or any of the number of other reasons why... is a hard reality for me to like. If you’re not paid up, the vest won’t work, period. I get that if you don’t buy a helmet, you don’t get your head protected in a wreck, but at least you just buy that helmet once and there’s no question when you’re wearing it that it will do something if you wreck.

 

My thoughts

Dear god. Please do not make safety features freaking DLC. I can understand if you don't have the equipment already installed that you could sell the equipment for a one time cost, but to have the safety equipment already installed and just... refuse to let it work is just petty. A human life is worth more than a petty $12/month profit, especially when they're relying on your safety product. Just have it activate, and if the company is REALLY that petty, just take the debtor to collections. At the very least, if a lawsuit comes about this, it will dissuade other manufacturers from thinking about doing the same.

 

Sources

Vice (media source)

Jalopnik (quote source)

[Murasaki]

How is this legal? (please tell me it isn't)

[DobertRownySr]

I mean, if you don't agree to the service, then simply don't buy it.

[rcmaehl]

Just now, Murasaki said:

How is this legal? (please tell me it isn't)

I... honestly don't think it's been tried before

 

[givingtnt]

Yeah, it's been out for a while iirc. kinda dumb.

But either way.. the best models are by far the ones with the cord you attach to your bike. Sure, you might pull it on accident.. but it's less dumb than those things that *also* have to detect the crash accurately..

 

 

[FakeATF]

Jesus, is this real?

 

There should be no way that this should be allowed. Like, seriously, I should be able to use the product if I already paid for it. This honestly makes me sick

[WaggishOhio383]

Yet another case of modern technology allowing companies to sell you a product you don't actually own... Got to love living in the 21st century.

[Beerzerker]

Nah - Chances are if you are on a bike and something happens a little vest isn't going to help much anyway in most cases.
Not saying it isn't 100% ineffective but still.....

[WaggishOhio383]

Just now, Beerzerker said:

Nah - Chances are if you are on a bike and something happens a little vest isn't going to help much anyway in most cases.

Doesn't change the fact that the vest should do what you paid for it to do

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, Murasaki said:

How is this legal? (please tell me it isn't)

It's probably legal because you don't strictly need one of these with a functional airbag to ride a motorcycle and meet safety regulations. I'd never buy a piece of clothing tied to a subscription though, let alone one that is meant as a safety device. At least this seems to offer a straight up buying option...

 

Also from a technical standpoint the idea of critical security equipment requiring an internet connection to function rings all sorts of alarm bells. What if you pay but the activation servers are down or the activation system is bugged and doesn't work at any point?

[JuztBe]

I hope this flops hard, such things is really last thing we need. 

[FakeNSA]

3 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Nah - Chances are if you are on a bike and something happens a little vest isn't going to help much anyway in most cases.
Not saying it isn't 100% ineffective but still.....

Obviously not in the case of running into something, but if you end up in a slide, this can be really helpful!

 

I also saw the video that givingtnt posted, and it gave an interesting perspective on why they might be worth it (especially less expensive, tether-activated models).

12 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

 

 

 

[FakeATF]

5 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Nah - Chances are if you are on a bike and something happens a little vest isn't going to help much anyway in most cases.
Not saying it isn't 100% ineffective but still.....

True, but that's not the point. It's about "Oh yeah, we're going to sell you this product. but it doesn't even work as advertised unless you also purchase the monthly subscription. 

 

With basically any other subscription I can think of, either the product has added usability with the subscription, or the cost is just the subscription. This practice is disgusting, especially when you consider that it's an airbag that's supposed to save lives. It's like "Oh, sorry that you were severely injured while using our product, but you weren't paying the fees, so it's your fault." 

 

This is seriously a disgusting business practice

[Biohazard777]

19 minutes ago, Murasaki said:

How is this legal? (please tell me it isn't)

It isn't standard safety gear, like a helmet for example which must undergo certain certification (which is kinda crap, but that is another topic) in order to be approved for sale and use... Not saying the practice is of questionable morale, but still don't see it as illegal (yet).

Like @DobertRownySr said, simplest way to deal with this is to refuse buying/using the service.
I personally would go 1 step further, put the company on my personal blacklist, as in don't buy anything from them and don't recommend their products to anyone... For example I still haven't forgotten the 2014 controversy where Kingston and PNY were swapping SSD controllers after good reviews for cheaper and worse ones later without changing the name of the product or in any way disclosing what was done. I know that my actions alone have contributed to dozens, maybe hundreds of missed sales for those companies which  for companies of such size is just a drop in the bucket... but if others do the same, welp it stops being irrelevant, and heck even if it doesn't lead to anything at least I know I did what I could.

[Mark Kaine]

17 minutes ago, DobertRownySr said:

I mean, if you don't agree to the service, then simply don't buy it.

i... actually agree its the people buying stuff like this that comes with a subscription for something that should already be included (Tesla comes to mind) that are enabling this sort of thing. If no one were to  "buy" it ,it wouldn't be offered.

 

 

[Moonzy]

Can we have one time payment back??

 

Subscription is great when you get things that can be updated, not for an airbag that's supposed to be set and forget

[WaggishOhio383]

1 minute ago, Moonzy said:

Subscription is great when you get things that can be updated

It's also great for things like Spotify Premium where it would cost a crazy amount for a lifetime subscription or to just buy all the songs you listen to. But to have to pay a monthly subscription to be able to use a product I already purchased is just ridiculous (i.e. Linus's garage door opener conundrum).

[da na]

It's gotten so bad even life is pay-to-win

[Quackers101]

Most often than not, this is not legal. (could depend on country)

it would be an safety hazard, more so when safety equipment should work in it's use case or situation.

 

Also on that page (image), it says either or, are there two different payment systems?

[Murasaki]

9 minutes ago, JuztBe said:

I hope this flops hard, such things is really last thing we need. 

And when it flops, whoever bought one would be preeeetty screwed lol.

 

12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

It's probably legal because you don't strictly need one of these with a functional airbag to ride a motorcycle and meet safety regulations. I'd never buy a piece of clothing tied to a subscription though, let alone one that is meant as a safety device. At least this seems to offer a straight up buying option...

 

Also from a technical standpoint the idea of critical security equipment requiring an internet connection to function rings all sorts of alarm bells. What if you pay but the activation servers are down or the activation system is bugged and doesn't work at any point?

Now when you mention it... doesn't this thing need to be CHARGED too?! I didn't see anything saying it can be hooked up to anything, just sitting on the back as a standalone module.

 

14 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

Not saying the practice is of questionable morale, but still don't see it as illegal (yet).

They're definitely poking at it with this to see if it works out. I hope it doesn't.

[AMD A10-9600P]

This is a terrifying idea. I doubt it will catch on, or at least I hope it won't. False advertising and subscription fees should not be played with when it comes down to life or death.

 

I can't even begin to imagine what repercussions the company may face if someone buys this, then dies wearing it, thinking that it should save their life, yet they missed out on the subscription to life for the physical product that they already own. I can see families of people who owned the product and died in them taking a case somewhere.

 

Spoiler

Sorta reminds me of American healthcare; pay to win. Not really something I am a fan of, I much prefer accessible healthcare - the NHS is one of the few British things I feel I can be proud of.

 

[Murasaki]

7 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

Most often than not, this is not legal. (could depend on country)

it would be an safety hazard, more so when safety equipment should work in it's use case or situation.

 

Also on that page (image), it says either or, are there two different payment systems?

Theres plenty of points of failure in the chain. Their servers -> internet connection -> phone -> app -> bluetooth -> vest box thing -> canister thing to inflate vest.

I wouldn't trust this thing at all. Also I completely forgot this thing also needs an account so they're EVEN FARMING DATA WOW.

[Quackers101]

43 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

But either way.. the best models are by far the ones with the cord you attach to your bike. Sure, you might pull it on accident.. but it's less dumb than those things that *also* have to detect the crash accurately..

Spoiler

 

 

Thanks! Nice video, also how it covered some about spine injury as I was worried how it would support the neck and helmet.

Since there has been quite some cases about that, and how tight the helmets are, so when "innocent bystanders" try to take them off, often killing the driver.

Likely something that can be recommended to other drivers on bikes.

[Quackers101]

3 minutes ago, Murasaki said:

Theres plenty of points of failure in the chain. Their servers -> internet connection -> phone -> app -> bluetooth -> vest box thing -> canister thing to inflate vest.

I wouldn't trust this thing at all. Also I completely forgot this thing also needs an account so they're EVEN FARMING DATA WOW.

oh, yeah that is bad. Doubt all digitalized ones would need to be like that. Just enough storage on it, and updates when it needs with new information. depends on how well updating would work on their software and not breaking or disabling the hardware. But that it HAS to be enabled and connected and more, ouch... could maybe considered false advertising of a safety product as it wouldn't exactly keep you "safe". Also maybe a backup battery just in case, like on your motherboard for example.

[RejZoR]

Thanks Tesla for bringing us all this shit.