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Why do alt video sites never take off?

Bitchute, Odysee and something called "Storyfire" are the 3 sites you can find looking for "youtube alternatives" on a search engine. But what all 3 of them have in common? well, they're plain terrible when compared to YouTube.

 

Bitchute is similar to an underground blog with most posts at its front page being about conspiracy theories or "waking up", same goes for odysee which I use from time to time, but all I found there was politics cringeposting, more wacko theories and extremely toxic comment sections, sometimes all 3 in a single video. I'm sure the same kind of stuff is on YouTube but you simply have to look for it instead of having it right at the front page.

Could this be why sites like these never succeed? I've read a ton of times that X site "will kill youtube" but it simply never happens, I mean, thinking as a normie user: if that's the first thing I see when loading up an alt I'd just close it and go back to YT in 2 clicks, pretty sure there are a few decent or interersting channels to follow on alts but I'd need to look hard for them.

 

The same happens with alternative social networks, read a lot about Mastodon, Ello or Parlor, but nobody I know uses them and that's one thing that discourages me from using them followed by sh*tposting I don't care about, it's always like entering a bar and finding everyone drunk and fighting each other. On a side note I don't use the "big" socials either, only a bunch of forums and chat rooms.

 

Why are all of these sites so BAD? of course they're not bad if you're actively looking for content like that but are to me or any internet regular.

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Google owns Youtube.

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Because the only reason to go to them is if you're looking for something that's not already well-served by YouTube.

 

It's certainly got flaws, but having spent the last few years funding the creation of a video platform, I can say with confidence that YouTube is an engineering marvel.

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2 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

It's certainly got flaws

Quite. Youtube's flaws seem to mostly stem from policy decisions and far less from technical issues these days. The occasional bug is one thing, sure, but by far the majority of complaints I come across have to deal with the pretty much nonexistent support -- especially for the smaller channels -- and the extremely inconsistent and unpredictable way the policies are applied.

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Because YouTube serves 90+% of its users perfectly well.  Creators might hate it, but YouTube is where the viewers are.  Some viewers might hate it, but that's where the creators are.  I hate YouTube for what it does to creators, but I legitimately cannot say that I personally have any complaints about it.  It serves me content I enjoy (yes, even the Super Scary Right Wing Rabbit Hole type content) and reminds me of creators I haven't watched in a while.  It may not be perfect, but it's damn good. 

If anything's going to change, creators will have to do it.  BitChute is apparently getting close to being able to monetize their content, so once that happens more youtube creators will cross post their stuff there.  Once that happens, I'll go to BitChute Premium and never look back.  But until then...why would I leave?  All that'd do is prevent me from watching a lot of the content I enjoy.  

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17 hours ago, bmx6454 said:

i think a lot of the people who get banned from youtube, and some of the social media sites go to the new platforms, and end up bringing there toxic communities with them, often attracting even more toxic people. just a theory though.

That's what I saw too but honestly it has to be really hard to get banned on youtube, unless you upload pr0n or illegal stuff, I doubt someone gets banned from YT for a troll comment.

 

It's a shame though as new platforms have good premises like better privacy management for users but the toxicity and circlejerk-like "content" creators just discourage me from using them.

1 hour ago, Rybo said:

But until then...why would I leave?  All that'd do is prevent me from watching a lot of the content I enjoy.  

Yup, I'm thinking of the same, there are a lot of complaints about YT and demonetization or guidelines but at the same time the content is still nice when you're subbed to the right channels, main downside of that is that a google account is needed if you want to sub or customise your homepage and honestly I'm not fond of using google's stuff due to X and Y that's not relevant right now, I know politics or controversial topics aren't allowed so I'll stick to the guidelines now.

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I think it's quite simple really; they fail because they don't bring anything new to the table. Why would I (as both a viewer and a creator) move over to a different site that does exactly the same thing but looks slightly different or is owned by someone else?

 

Another example; say I created a site that's basically the same thing as Twitter, but with a different name. Why'd anyone go through the effort of switching over? What is there to gain? And then I haven't even mentioned all your friends haven't moved over either.

 

 

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17 hours ago, LinusTech said:

Because the only reason to go to them is if you're looking for something that's not already well-served by YouTube.

 

It's certainly got flaws, but having spent the last few years funding the creation of a video platform, I can say with confidence that YouTube is an engineering marvel.

Floatplane is very successful, just like youtube, which, linus uses every day, but why? simply put it that the video sites never take off because 1, people are more used to youtube, 2, these sites are not nearly as funded as though floatplane and youtube are, and 3, because people dont put a whole bunch of effort into making the site easy to use, fun to use, and free to use. People do not use these sites because they commonly require you to register, or they require payment. Floatplane has made millions because it was made by someone successful,(which is not always true, remember microsoft's mixer?) and it was made with effort and the users in mind, nobody wants to register for a video site to be able to have access. btw linus, if u do end up seeing this, i want to know, why does all of your content look so perfect, i have been trying to analyze your vids frame by frame for mistakes so i can download and try to fix, yet there is nothing 98% of the time, please tell the editors that they are the best, they do so much that not even i will be able to surpass them, despite only being 14 and an expert in computers, language arts, and astrophysics. i love the vids, and normally all i notice normally is minor frame buffers and cut frames.

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There are always racist, bigots, theory nuts and the such all over. The only reason they are less common and have to be searched for on youtube is simply social pressure. Youtube lets you post pretty much anything. almost any genre, content, video length, whatever you want. So you end up with a large variety of things naturally representative of the general public. In any situation representing the general public, the majority obviously outweighs the minority for opinions and so these types of content with opinions and viewpoints well outside the social norm are either reported by the moral majority or squashed by the algorithm to the point of being practically invisible. Same for other things in the market. Smoking is becoming less socially acceptable over time, and as such less people are smoking year to year. So in the case of videos they find a different platform that represents their minority, basically an echo chamber for their views. So you get all these side platforms filled with terrible things that wouldn't be accepted or would be ignored by youtube and the general public. With the infallible dominancy of youtube and google in the content market, it's very hard to justify creating a whole new platform for content that would normally be accepted by the public majority. It takes someone really caring about what makes the platform great for the viewer and creator to go and make a platform that will undoubtedly not be able to get the same kind of audience as youtube due to simple market share. So @LinusTech cares enough to create a platform worthy of rivaling youtube, but also acknowledging that the market will not allow Floatplane to truly rival it, so he stays on youtube as well. Id say one of the reasons floatplane is doing so well is it's not trying to necessarily take away youtube viewers by making the content exclusive to the new platform. Sure there's some content there as an incentive to supporting the channel more, but the core of the channel is still available for those not able to pay a subscription. So it hasn't fundamentally tried to compete with youtube's market. It's just offered another option for those who care and are in the position to offer more support for the same content they love. Many other platforms it's just on there. They couldn't make it on YT so they moved all the way to this new platform, so any of the general public who doesn't want to move to another platform will just not have that content. Simple choice and convenience.

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On 5/6/2021 at 9:55 AM, Jtalk4456 said:

There are always racist, bigots, theory nuts and the such all over. The only reason they are less common and have to be searched for on youtube is simply social pressure. Youtube lets you post pretty much anything. almost any genre, content, video length, whatever you want. So you end up with a large variety of things naturally representative of the general public. In any situation representing the general public, the majority obviously outweighs the minority for opinions and so these types of content with opinions and viewpoints well outside the social norm are either reported by the moral majority or squashed by the algorithm to the point of being practically invisible. Same for other things in the market. Smoking is becoming less socially acceptable over time, and as such less people are smoking year to year. So in the case of videos they find a different platform that represents their minority, basically an echo chamber for their views. So you get all these side platforms filled with terrible things that wouldn't be accepted or would be ignored by youtube and the general public. With the infallible dominancy of youtube and google in the content market, it's very hard to justify creating a whole new platform for content that would normally be accepted by the public majority. It takes someone really caring about what makes the platform great for the viewer and creator to go and make a platform that will undoubtedly not be able to get the same kind of audience as youtube due to simple market share. So @LinusTech cares enough to create a platform worthy of rivaling youtube, but also acknowledging that the market will not allow Floatplane to truly rival it, so he stays on youtube as well. Id say one of the reasons floatplane is doing so well is it's not trying to necessarily take away youtube viewers by making the content exclusive to the new platform. Sure there's some content there as an incentive to supporting the channel more, but the core of the channel is still available for those not able to pay a subscription. So it hasn't fundamentally tried to compete with youtube's market. It's just offered another option for those who care and are in the position to offer more support for the same content they love. Many other platforms it's just on there. They couldn't make it on YT so they moved all the way to this new platform, so any of the general public who doesn't want to move to another platform will just not have that content. Simple choice and convenience.

Honestly I don't mind "bigots", but 90% of X platform being about politics or A vs B debates is just boring, I am interested in politics and debates but not enough to constantly watch stuff like that or participate on threads that only bash one side (echo chamber stuff) without the guys from another side being able to say anything (because they also have their own echo chambers?) and sort of starting flame wars, a heated debate without a ton of insults or at least comments that aren't nonsense spam.

About FP it seems like a good idea for Linus, I can't afford to pay a monthly fee to anything but still agree with the exclusive content platform as it's a way of giving something back that's unique to people who do pay.

 

btw RIP Liveleak.

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On 5/4/2021 at 5:47 PM, LinusTech said:

It's certainly got flaws, but having spent the last few years funding the creation of a video platform, I can say with confidence that YouTube is an engineering marvel.

If only Alphabet/Google understood this. Their 'premium' service might be worth the cost if they actually worked on basic features, like being able to easily sort your subscriptions, or having comments function properly. Or a support staff that actually exists for more than just the top 1,000 channels, or whatever.

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I don't see myself ever using any of these alternative video-sites or social platforms or the likes. I am not only not interested, but I actively don't want to see any conspiracy-theorists, racists, *phobes, religinuts, assholes spewing hate-speech, any kind of extremists, pro-lifers, scammers or anything like that, and literally all of these alt-sites are chock-full of just that kind of content. It's horrible, hateful crap from side-to-side, just dripping with toxicity.

 

I am of the opinion that content-moderation is a good thing. The aforementioned kinds of people should not be coddled and the kind of hate and toxicity should not be given a platform on which to fester and I really do not want to have anything to do with them, and since all these alt-sites deliberately focus on drawing this kind of content.....

 

Also, many of these sites, like e.g. Odysee, are more-or-less decentralized and use your Internet-connection to share the content with other people around the world and I don't want to use my bandwidth for that. I am perfectly fine with centralized services, since that means my bandwidth will only be used for me consuming content, not for also spreading it to others.

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$$$$
video hosting isn't cheap so any free platform isn't likely to last

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20 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

$$$$
video hosting isn't cheap so any free platform isn't likely to last

Well, it's not like most of these are actually free, anyways. E.g. Odysee has this disgusting cryptothingy going that they use to fleece naive people and monetize their platform.

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10 hours ago, Caroline said:

Honestly I don't mind "bigots", but 90% of X platform being about politics or A vs B debates is just boring, I am interested in politics and debates but not enough to constantly watch stuff like that or participate on threads that only bash one side (echo chamber stuff) without the guys from another side being able to say anything (because they also have their own echo chambers?) and sort of starting flame wars, a heated debate without a ton of insults or at least comments that aren't nonsense spam.

About FP it seems like a good idea for Linus, I can't afford to pay a monthly fee to anything but still agree with the exclusive content platform as it's a way of giving something back that's unique to people who do pay.

 

btw RIP Liveleak.

not sure why bigots is in quotations, but the senseless debates without reasoning and just stubborn arguing and insulting is exactly what bigotry is, so you do seem to mind them...

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