Apple Executive Wanted iMessage On Android; Shot down by other Executives

[Curufinwe_wins]

27 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

1. It's almost as if actually having an ecosystem matters. Would you look at that? Ecosystem is combination of software and hardware. Not just awesome specs on paper and Swiss cheese like software. Which is how everything Android is. All out specs on paper and very little substance beyond that. It's all about bigger numbers are better and its users are obsessed with it.

 

2. You can use Google Apps. You can't Netflix or pretty much any banking app from my country because they block them from running on just phones with unlocked bootloaders. Not even rooted phones. Having all finances managed online, I need the app even if I want to do it via browser because of 2FA part of the app. So, all phones with custom ROM's are just straight up useless.

 

3. Sideloading of apps is overrated. Very few vendors offer APK's directly and getting them from unverified sources is terrible way of doing things. I've seen modified legit apps posing as legit apps down to just straight up ripoffs that just use name to pretend they are something they are not. When I ran them it was something entirely different.

 

4. No, Apple is not mining user data. They don't really have to because people actually pay for their things. Where with Google, everything is "free" shit. There is a big difference when you have control over that and where it's solely used for purpose of making their own products better (which doesn't need such extensive data mining). Google just does it to appease advertisers better and goes into really creepy depths of analyzing your habits and you as a person. Apple just doesn't do that and from my knowledge never has. Google always has and it's toning down because people are slowly realizing their personal data matters. Why else do you think they (allegedly) stoppe dcombing through GMail? Or why they are introducing the FLoC thing instead of their good old data hoarding on personal level?

It is blatantly false to say apple isn't mining user data. It is even explicitly noted in the App Store disclaimers. Apple does targeted advertising, to claim otherwise is counter to reality. Apple made 2B last year on targeted ads, and it is a targeted growth channel where they are intentionally disadvantaging other ad users to increase their market with double standards (like allowed interaction times are 3 days for 3rd parties and nearly real time for Apple's own).

 

The biggest distinction (and this is a HUGE one, admittedly), is that Apple isn't known to SELL your data to others for their use. Apple keeps the data to itself so that it maximizes the competitive advantages that that data allows. Apple also seems to collect that data much less frequently overall, though it does add a few troublesome additional data streams IMO (other people's information is all fair game if it interacts with your phone for example).

 

Heck we even have a recent paper noting this. https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf

 

 

EDIT: An additional real benefit to Apple's particular methodology is that much (though exactly how much is not made clear by Apple and is subject to change without notice of course) of the data collected is only stored on device. Which means while Apple services can still interact with that telemetry and benefit from it, the ability for that information to be disseminated outside is severely curtailed. This is indeed good for privacy.

[RejZoR]

@Curufinwe_wins

It's also important to distingusih HOW data is collected. Just saying "location is collected". For what purposes? Remote collection or local collection?

 

Because if phone is logging location, but is for local purposes of displaying you weather at your location or controlling "Do not disturb" when you leave the location, it's very much different than "logging location, sending it to Google and procesing it there to log all the data about you around it on remote servers". Which is considered as "remote location".

 

In Apple's case, there is also feature called "Relevent locations" which tracks locations you are staying most often and there seems to be no explanation whether location is part of "Find My" or is just a generic location tracking. Document doesn't seem to go in such depth and quite frankly, I don't have any verified data on that. I do know there is a distinction between those.

 

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

@Curufinwe_wins

It's also important to distingusih HOW data is collected. Just saying "location is collected". For what purposes? Remote collection or local collection?

 

Because if phone is logging location, but is for local purposes of displaying you weather at your location or controlling "Do not disturb" when you leave the location, it's very much different than "logging location, sending it to Google and procesing it there to log all the data about you around it on remote servers". Which is considered as "remote location".

 

In Apple's case, there is also feature called "Relevent locations" which tracks locations you are staying most often and there seems to be no explanation whether location is part of "Find My" or is just a generic location tracking. Document doesn't seem to go in such depth and quite frankly, I don't have any verified data on that. I do know there is a distinction between those.

 

 

I did make a note about local collection in an edit. I do think it's less important than most claim as long as (huge caveat) you regulate the second-hand sale of that data, but it definitely is worth noting. That particular paper was only looking at data sent off of the device to google/apple, but that doesn't mean the same quality of data is being sent. Apple could store as often as Google does locally, but only send 1/10th as often back to their remote base for example. (arbitrary example) 

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

On android, I can use great FOSS apps like waistline that are not on the app store. And guess what? A forntite-like situation cannot happen.

"Free and open" while the vast majority of Android users will only see/download something if it's from the official Play Store, just like with iOS. Android has the ability to sideload apps, but the vast majority of average consumers will probably never know what sideloading is. This is why 3rd party app stores and sideloading apps are NOT a replacement for the Google Play store for most developers. You ever wonder why Facebook doesn't just make their own Android app store to shove their own apps in it and bypass Google's guidelines? This is why.

 

Remember the Epic store on Android when Epic didn't want to use the Google Play store? Remember how that turned out? Google has a "monopoly" on App marketplaces similar to Apple, except Google wants you to think sideloading is an option that the majority of people would be comfortable with doing, even though in recent years they've made it more cumbersome to achieve such a task. Not as terrible as the solution for sideloading on an iPhone, but it's not like Windows and macOS where you click an installer and it's automatically done.

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Lol. you think apple is not mining your data?

I feel like if Apple was mining user data in the same way/rate Facebook and Google were doing, it would've come out by now and it would've been one of the biggest scandals in the tech world in a while.

 

Why would Apple need to mine and sell user data? What service/product does Apple deliver that is 100% free, without any upgrade path or without purchase of a subsequent product (iMessage is free but you must buy an iPhone/iPod, iPad or Mac to use it)? Unlike Microsoft, who makes money through cloud services (Azure), and unlike Google and Facebook, who make money delivering ads and creating a digital fingerprint that follows you around and gathers more data about you, Apple doesn't have to mine data to turn a profit. They can just upcharge you upfront. 

54 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 

Like it's kinda funny how upside down this all is. You'd think that Google would have had everyone using a Google messenger service, but somehow utterly blew this, and instead directs people to use gmail. Hangouts was there, and they... keep rebranding and refactoring it... to what ends? Confuse the snot out of people that they have a messaging service?

Google Allo. Everyone thought that was gonna be really good, but it flopped, just like Duo pretty much has (I'm pretty sure they were released side by side). It just felt like they really didn't care. It was neither preloaded on Android phones nor was it tied into the default messaging app like iMessage is. They abandoned it for RCS, which also flopped because of a lack of carrier integration.

 

I feel like this is a repeat of so much of Google's pure failure to innovate correctly with Android, and it all ties back to how fragmented Android is. Android was rushed out the door to compete with iOS in time, and some decisions they made in the early days, such as letting the device OEM decide what version of android to use on their device, and when to update it, is really biting them in the butt. It's not like they couldn't regulate this. If a phone is running a certain Snapdragon X chip with Y amount of RAM, push an update to Android 12. Hell, this is something that Microsoft eventually solved with Windows 10 Mobile, in fact, if it wasn't for the blunders of early Windows Phone (especially with licensing), I feel like we would be having this conversation about "Apple doesn't want to port iMessage to Windows Phone" instead of Android, but that's not the topic for today. But I feel like this won't get solved until they move past Android and move onto a more modern OS, probably one that combines Android and Chrome OS into one unified core. One that is not dependent on the kernel of the phone itself to update. If they pushed Google Allo as an update to newAndroid (or whatever they call it), it would've gotten mass popularization almost immediately. Then it's up to Google to provide a compelling experience to get these people to stay.

[RejZoR]

@NotTheFirstDaniel

Allegedly, Google Fuchsia is suppose to address that, but I'll believe it when I see it. Google promised so many things about Android and it's still a complete trainwreck wrapped in fancy "it's all open and free" wrapping paper. Even RCS, the thing that's suppose to compete with iMessage was just dropped by everyone. And I wasn't a big fan of it either because for non supported providers, it would be routed through Google. And given I don't use anything from Google, I don't want anything being routed through them. Which is hard to do given so many 3rd parties use Google's crap. But if you can lower it to minimum, that counts too.

[Curufinwe_wins]

14 minutes ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

"Free and open" while the vast majority of Android users will only see/download something if it's from the official Play Store, just like with iOS. Android has the ability to sideload apps, but the vast majority of average consumers will probably never know what sideloading is. This is why 3rd party app stores and sideloading apps are NOT a replacement for the Google Play store for most developers. You ever wonder why Facebook doesn't just make their own Android app store to shove their own apps in it and bypass Google's guidelines? This is why.

 

Remember the Epic store on Android when Epic didn't want to use the Google Play store? Remember how that turned out? Google has a "monopoly" on App marketplaces similar to Apple, except Google wants you to think sideloading is an option that the majority of people would be comfortable with doing, even though in recent years they've made it more cumbersome to achieve such a task. Not as terrible as the solution for sideloading on an iPhone, but it's not like Windows and macOS where you click an installer and it's automatically done.

I feel like if Apple was mining user data in the same way/rate Facebook and Google were doing, it would've come out by now and it would've been one of the biggest scandals in the tech world in a while.

 

Why would Apple need to mine and sell user data? What service/product does Apple deliver that is 100% free, without any upgrade path or without purchase of a subsequent product (iMessage is free but you must buy an iPhone/iPod, iPad or Mac to use it)? Unlike Microsoft, who makes money through cloud services (Azure), and unlike Google and Facebook, who make money delivering ads and creating a digital fingerprint that follows you around and gathers more data about you, Apple doesn't have to mine data to turn a profit. They can just upcharge you upfront. 

Google Allo. Everyone thought that was gonna be really good, but it flopped, just like Duo pretty much has (I'm pretty sure they were released side by side). It just felt like they really didn't care. It was neither preloaded on Android phones nor was it tied into the default messaging app like iMessage is. They abandoned it for RCS, which also flopped because of a lack of carrier integration.

 

I feel like this is a repeat of so much of Google's pure failure to innovate correctly with Android, and it all ties back to how fragmented Android is. Android was rushed out the door to compete with iOS in time, and some decisions they made in the early days, such as letting the device OEM decide what version of android to use on their device, and when to update it, is really biting them in the butt. It's not like they couldn't regulate this. If a phone is running a certain Snapdragon X chip with Y amount of RAM, push an update to Android 12. Hell, this is something that Microsoft eventually solved with Windows 10 Mobile, in fact, if it wasn't for the blunders of early Windows Phone (especially with licensing), I feel like we would be having this conversation about "Apple doesn't want to port iMessage to Windows Phone" instead of Android, but that's not the topic for today. But I feel like this won't get solved until they move past Android and move onto a more modern OS, probably one that combines Android and Chrome OS into one unified core. One that is not dependent on the kernel of the phone itself to update. If they pushed Google Allo as an update to newAndroid (or whatever they call it), it would've gotten mass popularization almost immediately. Then it's up to Google to provide a compelling experience to get these people to stay.

Just to clear up some misconceptions here.... Apple makes billions of dollars a year selling ads on its App Store and News Feeds. Less than 1/10th as much as Facebook (for now), but it is still a huge profit for them. They do in fact do ad targeting, they are aggressively trying to expand their market there, and they are using their walled garden to abuse their position for ads beyond even the 'we don't let you do stuff we wouldn't do' items.

 

Quote

 

In 2018 Apple sought to expand its digital-advertising business, and met with major apps including Snap Inc. and Pinterest Inc. about participating in an Apple network that would distribute ads across a network of participating apps.

 

When targeting users who have opted out of tracking, advertisers who buy ads through third-party platforms will have to wait three days for insights on their campaigns and will receive only aggregate information, such as the total number of users who took an action after an ad, people familiar with Apple’s ad products said.

 

Advertisers who buy Apple ad space can receive more data about user behavior. They can learn which version of their ads users saw and which search keywords ads appeared on, they said. Those advertisers will get results nearly in real time, the people said.

 

That could give Apple an edge in luring advertisers, especially if the tech company expands its ad business, ad-industry executives say. Right now, Apple sells search ads that appear in its App Store and display ads that appear in its News and Stocks apps.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/apples-privacy-changes-are-poised-to-boost-its-ad-products-11619485863

[Curufinwe_wins]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

@NotTheFirstDaniel

Allegedly, Google Fuchsia is suppose to address that, but I'll believe it when I see it. Google promised so many things about Android and it's still a complete trainwreck wrapped in fancy "it's all open and free" wrapping paper. Even RCS, the thing that's suppose to compete with iMessage was just dropped by everyone. And I wasn't a big fan of it either because for non supported providers, it would be routed through Google. And given I don't use anything from Google, I don't want anything being routed through them. Which is hard to do given so many 3rd parties use Google's crap. But if you can lower it to minimum, that counts too.

RCS will never happen as long as mobile carriers in the US are the selfish assholes they are now. Just the way it is. Everyone wants to go alone, no one wants to put effort into it, and no one wants to let someone else do it for them. Apple literally only got into this position because they started off as a single carrier exclusive and that demonstrated how absolutely vital it was for other carriers to keep Apple, so Apple gets to do whatever it wants and the carriers just take it. (60% US market share and one of only two companies with over 5% market share in the US cell phone space).

 

Literally you can blame the US for causing these issues worldwide.

[pas008]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

1. It's almost as if actually having an ecosystem matters. Would you look at that? Ecosystem is combination of software and hardware. Not just awesome specs on paper and Swiss cheese like software. Which is how everything Android is. All out specs on paper and very little substance beyond that. It's all about bigger numbers are better and its users are obsessed with it.

 

2. You can use Google Apps. You can't Netflix or pretty much any banking app from my country because they block them from running on just phones with unlocked bootloaders. Not even rooted phones. Having all finances managed online, I need the app even if I want to do it via browser because of 2FA part of the app. So, all phones with custom ROM's are just straight up useless.

 

3. Sideloading of apps is overrated. Very few vendors offer APK's directly and getting them from unverified sources is terrible way of doing things. I've seen modified legit apps posing as legit apps down to just straight up ripoffs that just use name to pretend they are something they are not. When I ran them it was something entirely different.

 

4. No, Apple is not mining user data. They don't really have to because people actually pay for their things. Where with Google, everything is "free" shit. There is a big difference when you have control over that and where it's solely used for purpose of making their own products better (which doesn't need such extensive data mining). Google just does it to appease advertisers better and goes into really creepy depths of analyzing your habits and you as a person. Apple just doesn't do that and from my knowledge never has. Google always has and it's toning down because people are slowly realizing their personal data matters. Why else do you think they (allegedly) stoppe dcombing through GMail? Or why they are introducing the FLoC thing instead of their good old data hoarding on personal level?

yes they mine data by far

how do you think they steal everything

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/05/how-apple-uses-its-app-store-copy-best-ideas/

[WolframaticAlpha]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

1. It's almost as if actually having an ecosystem matters. Would you look at that? Ecosystem is combination of software and hardware. Not just awesome specs on paper and Swiss cheese like software. Which is how everything Android is. All out specs on paper and very little substance beyond that. It's all about bigger numbers are better and its users are obsessed with it.

 

2. You can use Google Apps. You can't Netflix or pretty much any banking app from my country because they block them from running on just phones with unlocked bootloaders. Not even rooted phones. Having all finances managed online, I need the app even if I want to do it via browser because of 2FA part of the app. So, all phones with custom ROM's are just straight up useless.

 

3. Sideloading of apps is overrated. Very few vendors offer APK's directly and getting them from unverified sources is terrible way of doing things. I've seen modified legit apps posing as legit apps down to just straight up ripoffs that just use name to pretend they are something they are not. When I ran them it was something entirely different.

 

4. No, Apple is not mining user data. They don't really have to because people actually pay for their things. Where with Google, everything is "free" shit. There is a big difference when you have control over that and where it's solely used for purpose of making their own products better (which doesn't need such extensive data mining). Google just does it to appease advertisers better and goes into really creepy depths of analyzing your habits and you as a person. Apple just doesn't do that and from my knowledge never has. Google always has and it's toning down because people are slowly realizing their personal data matters. Why else do you think they (allegedly) stoppe dcombing through GMail? Or why they are introducing the FLoC thing instead of their good old data hoarding on personal level?

If you actually believe apple is not mining;/selling your data, then apple marketing won.

[Zando_]

Just now, WolframaticAlpha said:

If you actually believe apple is not mining;/selling your data, then apple marketing won.

Eh. They don't have any motivation to. Apple makes bank off their expensive hardware + selling users their cloud and media services under a subscription model. There's little reason for them to tell users they privatize their data and then turn around and sell personally identifiable data under the table. The profit wouldn't be worth obliterating their reputation. That's why they push for privacy features, not because they care any more about the end user (they're a massive corporation after all), but because that's what works for their business model and keeps people on their platform. 

[pas008]

8 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Eh. They don't have any motivation to. Apple makes bank off their expensive hardware + selling users their cloud and media services under a subscription model. There's little reason for them to tell users they privatize their data and then turn around and sell personally identifiable data under the table. The profit wouldn't be worth obliterating their reputation. That's why they push for privacy features, not because they care any more about the end user (they're a massive corporation after all), but because that's what works for their business model and keeps people on their platform. 

But what makes Apple’s practice different is its access to a trove of data that nobody else has. The App Store, where the original apps were offered and competed for downloads, collects a vast amount of information on which kinds of apps are successful—even monitoring how much time users spend in them. That data is shared widely among leaders at the tech giant and could be used to make strategic decisions on product development, said Phillip Shoemaker, who served as Apple’s director of App Store review from 2009 to 2016.

 

“I think Apple gets a lot of inspiration from apps that are on the App Store,” he said.

hmmm

 

16 minutes ago, pas008 said:

yes they mine data by far

how do you think they steal everything

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/05/how-apple-uses-its-app-store-copy-best-ideas/

 

[WolframaticAlpha]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

1. It's almost as if actually having an ecosystem matters. Would you look at that? Ecosystem is combination of software and hardware. Not just awesome specs on paper and Swiss cheese like software. Which is how everything Android is. All out specs on paper and very little substance beyond that. It's all about bigger numbers are better and its users are obsessed with it.

 

2. You can use Google Apps. You can't Netflix or pretty much any banking app from my country because they block them from running on just phones with unlocked bootloaders. Not even rooted phones. Having all finances managed online, I need the app even if I want to do it via browser because of 2FA part of the app. So, all phones with custom ROM's are just straight up useless.

 

3. Sideloading of apps is overrated. Very few vendors offer APK's directly and getting them from unverified sources is terrible way of doing things. I've seen modified legit apps posing as legit apps down to just straight up ripoffs that just use name to pretend they are something they are not. When I ran them it was something entirely different.

 

4. No, Apple is not mining user data. They don't really have to because people actually pay for their things. Where with Google, everything is "free" shit. There is a big difference when you have control over that and where it's solely used for purpose of making their own products better (which doesn't need such extensive data mining). Google just does it to appease advertisers better and goes into really creepy depths of analyzing your habits and you as a person. Apple just doesn't do that and from my knowledge never has. Google always has and it's toning down because people are slowly realizing their personal data matters. Why else do you think they (allegedly) stoppe dcombing through GMail? Or why they are introducing the FLoC thing instead of their good old data hoarding on personal level?

1. Yes it is a fucking tech spec.  If apple used Java or if android used something performant like objective C, their software would consume less battery and give more perf than apple's. Also Apple has an undeniably good silicon department that can make bespoke and tightly tuned solutions to stuff.

 

2. It may be useless to you, because you don't use  have it on your apple utopia. It is very useful to others. I have the freedom to do anything. Use cheats in games, use modded apps, use non playstore apps etc. If the app store always worked, then why do you think that people still download .dmg packages on their mac for software?

 

3.  search for "Does apple care about privacy?". It will negate your hypothesis. T

 

Quote

There is no indication that Apple is anywhere near as bad as Google. And they have less motivation to be, because they still are a hardware company, not an advertising company like Google. But Apple certainly isn't entirely agnostic about your data, but they are probably interested in how their products are used for optimization. Hence, while there is a lack of motivation, it cannot be negated that apple doesn't collect user data at all.  And, there is a very high chance you will be using Google services on your iphone. Most of the data collection is done by third parties and not Google and apple, so that is something else to take care about

 

4. With your disregard and disrespect of free stuff, I am coming under the impression, that you like to pay for everything. In every case the customer is not the product. Use FOSS(that is free in all senses). It is free and doesn't steal your data. 

 

5. NSA Prism program taps in to user data of Apple, Google and others | US national security | The Guardian

Why the NSA is staying out of Apple's fight with the FBI - The Verge

NSA leaker Edward Snowden refuses to use Apple's iPhone over spying concerns - report | AppleInsider

 

 

Quote

Apple was one of the first companies accused of participation in the NSA's PRISM data mining initiative

 

Apple Is a Hypocrite on Data Privacy - The Atlantic

Exclusive: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained - sources | Reuters

 

These sources are from 2013 to 2020.

 

Apple, despite being the so-called 'paragon of security' has collaborated with the NSA. time and time again . Apple software has numerous backdoors, and as of today Android has half the number of documented CVE flaws(828) against Apple's iphone os(1655).

 

So, even if your data is not stolen by apple, third parties are equally as likely to, if not more, to harvest your data.

 

 

6. Your entire premise rests on the fact that android is bad and needs extraneous and difficult configuration to make it good. That couldn't be the further from truth. Android has a 95% satisfaction rate and 70% people have said that they will "stay on Android for the forseeable future". While the survey is old(2017), I do not think that most users would rather go to ios. Also Android can easily be configured to be privacy respecting and securing by using system settings. It can be done by following easy guides in just 5 minutes, like this: The ultimate guide to privacy on Android | Computerworld. So really, you don't want to work for 5 minutes and would rather pay close to double the price for your Apple device.

 

[PocketNerd]

6 hours ago, Laborant said:

If iMessage is THAT much better than WhatsApp, Signal, Threema or Telegram, why don't the other messenger just "git gud"? Get that awesome, that iMessage gets obsolete? Apple is not to blame for keeping something good for Apple users alone. 

Why don't they? Because software patents are bullshit.

[WolframaticAlpha]

4 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

Why don't they? Because software patents are bullshit.

Not software patents, but lockdown. iMessage is frankly not as great as it is touted to be. It is good, and certainly better than whatsapp, telegram rips it to the bone on most of the messenger stuff. The barrier is that imessage users do not have transfer tools and are locked into the exploitative and closed off apple ecosystem.

[Zando_]

29 minutes ago, pas008 said:

But what makes Apple’s practice different is its access to a trove of data that nobody else has. The App Store, where the original apps were offered and competed for downloads, collects a vast amount of information on which kinds of apps are successful—even monitoring how much time users spend in them. That data is shared widely among leaders at the tech giant and could be used to make strategic decisions on product development, said Phillip Shoemaker, who served as Apple’s director of App Store review from 2009 to 2016.

Yes. 

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

But what makes Apple’s practice different is its access to a trove of data that nobody else has. The App Store, where the original apps were offered and competed for downloads, collects a vast amount of information on which kinds of apps are successful—even monitoring how much time users spend in them. That data is shared widely among leaders at the tech giant and could be used to make strategic decisions on product development, said Phillip Shoemaker, who served as Apple’s director of App Store review from 2009 to 2016.

 

“I think Apple gets a lot of inspiration from apps that are on the App Store,” he said.

hmmm

 

 

So what Amazon and Walmart already do with their respective marketplaces? Amazon Basics? Great Value?

 

And while I don't think you're wrong, a random quote from the head of "App Store Review" (not even an executive position) shouldn't be what you're using to push this narrative...

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

If you actually believe apple is not mining;/selling your data, then apple marketing won.

You seriously believe they'd put their entire privacy shtick to risk by lying? Coz if they lied about it, NO ONE would buy anything from them ever again.

 

Also you can't compare PRISM to their "personal" data hoarding. PRISM is mandatory bullshit done by US of A itself. Not even Apple can refuse it.

[Brooksie359]

12 hours ago, RejZoR said:

And I'm sitting here, a former Android user with an iPhone hoping more users would prefer Signal over garbage ass WhatsApp and the likes, a neutral 3rd party so it doesn't matter what OS you're using and an app that has privacy in mind... Yet getting people to use it is incredibly difficult. So I just stick with SMS...

 

@Zongohihello

I keep reading these conspiracy theories about evil Apple wanting to lock people into their ecosystem and I can't get annoyed more by this bullshit. It's totally fabricated nonsense claim and I can't believe it's STILL being repeated like some sort of truth. As an AirPods 2 user who exclusively uses them on Windows 10 systems (I only have them paired with iPhone to see battery levels) I can tell you it's a big fat lie. Sure, AirPods 2 work amazing on iPhone with its magical connecting and proximity popup status display. But they work equally great on Windows 10. Connecting them with computer is another thing which is pretty buggy and not really Apple's fault because I'm experiencing same issues with SoundPEATS that I also have (situations when they refuse to pair, I'm suspecting BT chipsets in PC's or Windows itself is the reason). But once connected, they work great. I can even use touch gestures on them to control MPC HC video player or MusicBee music player. And I also bought Dolby Access for additional audio enhancements which work amazingly well for gaming and movies. In fact AirPods have ridiculously low latency to a point I can super comfortably game with them and I do so very often actually because they are more comfy than big over the ear headphones that I also have. Of all "locked" things, AirPods are the least locked to anything. They work like ANY other bluetooth earbuds with any device. And despite how people constantly whine how they sound terrible, they are actually really well balanced and sound great given they need to lossy compress audio to transmit it.

I would say its less of wanting to lock people into their ecosystem as much as it is making an ecosystem that works so well with each other that it makes people want to be apart of it. There are alot of benefits if you use the apple ecosystem as all the devices work super well together and it is pretty seemless but I would hardly say that makes Apple evil as much as it makes them a smart business. They are essentially adding value to having multiple of their products incentivising people to be apart of the ecosystem. 

[RejZoR]

Just now, Brooksie359 said:

I would say its less of wanting to lock people into their ecosystem as much as it is making an ecosystem that works so well with each other that it makes people want to be apart of it. There are alot of benefits if you use the apple ecosystem as all the devices work super well together and it is pretty seemless but I would hardly say that makes Apple evil as much as it makes them a smart business. They are essentially adding value to having multiple of their products incentivising people to be apart of the ecosystem. 

But you can opt not to be. You can have an iPhone and use Xiaomi Mi Band bracelet with it. And SoundPEATS earbuds. It won't be the same, but it'll work.

[WolframaticAlpha]

10 hours ago, RejZoR said:

You seriously believe they'd put their entire privacy shtick to risk by lying? Coz if they lied about it, NO ONE would buy anything from them ever again.

 

Also you can't compare PRISM to their "personal" data hoarding. PRISM is mandatory bullshit done by US of A itself. Not even Apple can refuse it.

It doesn't matter! In a best case scenario, Apple not taking your data doesn't mean third parties won't! Google has FLoC, NSA has backdoors, and Facebook runs web analytics. All of these things will run regardless of what apple does. And then saying that Apple doesn't collect your data doesn't mean shit, because you've already been profiled. At least on Android, you can pretty easily ungoogle+un other corporations your phone. Good Luck doing that on apple.

 

 

And yes, I can. Apple can refuse to participate in the prism thing and create a big stink. But they were the first ones to agree to the whole thing. Your data Is being collected and buying an apple product for the illusion of security is delusional.

 

[lostcattears]

There is no point.... there is already plently of cross platform messaging apps keeping imessage on just apple is just better

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

It doesn't matter! In a best case scenario, Apple not taking your data doesn't mean third parties won't! Google has FLoC, NSA has backdoors, and Facebook runs web analytics. All of these things will run regardless of what apple does. And then saying that Apple doesn't collect your data doesn't mean shit, because you've already been profiled. At least on Android, you can pretty easily ungoogle+un other corporations your phone. Good Luck doing that on apple.

 

 

And yes, I can. Apple can refuse to participate in the prism thing and create a big stink. But they were the first ones to agree to the whole thing. Your data Is being collected and buying an apple product for the illusion of security is delusional.

 

And buy what? The alternative that's Android? Or degoogle the phone and essentially make it a very high spec useless brick because bunch of shit doesn't work on just unlocked bootloader. Riiiight.

[Sauron]

On 4/28/2021 at 3:45 AM, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

Steve Jobs's "vision" was to have iMessage and Facetime an open API for all devices to use, not just iPhones.

No, his vision was to make money and sue other companies for making devices with round edges.

 

I don't get why any of this is relevant to the lawsuit or why anyone should care... there is no shortage of cross platform messaging apps.

[WolframaticAlpha]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

And buy what? The alternative that's Android? Or degoogle the phone and essentially make it a very high spec useless brick because bunch of shit doesn't work on just unlocked bootloader. Riiiight.

no point in arguing with you.

[Heliian]

Of course he was shot down, apple stays apple or you're outside the walls like some kind of digital hunger games. 

 

My family has been trying to push an iPhone on me just for iMessage and tells me "I'm missing out".  No, I'm not missing out, it's my choice.

 

Nobody should lock themselves into one service.  I'm able to use multiple services on my android based phone without overpaying for hardware and apps.

 

I've said this with previous Apple gimmicks, that until they start losing money or market share they will never relinquish control.  The following is just too big.