Ubuntu 21.04 released! Active Directory Integration by default!

[RejZoR]

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Embrace extend extinguish

How exactly would they extinguish anything? It's not like Linux will bankrupt lol

[WolframaticAlpha]

1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

Why?

Most people use Ubuntu as a just-works distro which has a good community. But those advantages are enjoyed by Linux Mint, pop etc communities. Ubuntu has too much bloat. Stock Ubuntu has gnome which sucks. 

 

Kubuntu, xubuntu etc are fine

[WereCatf]

Just now, WolframaticAlpha said:

Most people use Ubuntu as a just-works distro which has a good community. But those advantages are enjoyed by Linux Mint, pop etc communities. Ubuntu has too much bloat. Stock Ubuntu has gnome which sucks.

So, your argument boils down to "I don't like GNOME, therefore no one should be using stock Ubuntu." That's not a particularly compelling argument.

[WolframaticAlpha]

Just now, RejZoR said:

How exactly would they extinguish anything? It's not like Linux will bankrupt lol

They managed to extinguish tons of open source tools in the past.

 

I just don't like the thought that a corporation like Microsoft, which considers Linux cancer, has such a huge say in the development of such a large distro. That's only because I am jaded. Maybe ms has changed and I am an ass. But I won't hold my breath for them.

[WereCatf]

4 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

How exactly would they extinguish anything? It's not like Linux will bankrupt lol

It's not even possible to "extinguish" open-source software. I mean, if they were to some day change the license of some of their open-source project, people could still use the source-code from before that license-change! That's the magic behind it being open-source -- just fork the code, continue the project on as long as you like and ignore the original one!

[WolframaticAlpha]

1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

So, your argument boils down to "I don't like GNOME, therefore no one should be using stock Ubuntu." That's not a particularly compelling argument.

Stock Ubuntu has adware and spyware. Ubuntu is maintained by a for-profit corpo. And in the recent years, has warmed up too much to MS. It s the primary reason the bloat called Snap exists.

 

And the list goes on

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

which considers Linux cancer

But they don't! They have fully embraced Linux, they are trying to make it exceedingly easy for developers to make use of Linux even without having to dual-boot or anything! You clearly ain't a developer or otherwise you'd know Microsoft has been pushing REALLY hard for Linux-support in the last few years and e.g. WSL2 is fucking fabulous.

[WolframaticAlpha]

2 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

But they don't! They have fully embraced Linux, they are trying to make it exceedingly easy for developers to make use of Linux even without having to dual-boot or anything! You clearly ain't a developer or otherwise you'd know Microsoft has been pushing REALLY hard for Linux-support in the last few years and e.g. WSL2 is fucking fabulous.

Ubuntu and rhel are the top distros and are mantained by corpos. MS can squeeze them. 

 

 

Its just hard for me to believe that MS can change so much. They have been an utter pain in the ass for so long, that I am not able to believe that they genuinely care for oss

 

 

[WereCatf]

Just now, WolframaticAlpha said:

Stock Ubuntu has adware and spyware.

Prove your claim, mate.

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Ubuntu is maintained by a for-profit corpo.

You are only projecting things here. That's not an argument, that's a strawman.

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

And in the recent years, has warmed up too much to MS

More projection without actual facts of anything.

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

It s the primary reason the bloat called Snap exists.

I want to see proof that Canonical and Microsoft working together is somehow the primary motivation for Snaps to exist.

[WolframaticAlpha]

1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

Prove your claim, mate.

You are only projecting things here. That's not an argument, that's a strawman.

More projection without actual facts of anything.

I want to see proof that Canonical and Microsoft working together is somehow the primary motivation for Snaps to exist.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-amazon-ads-and-data-leaks

Also I meant that Ubuntu and canonical are the primary reason for Snaps

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

MS can squeeze them.

...by doing...what? Sneezing at them? Both Canonical and Red Hat have their own revenue-streams entirely independent of Microsoft, so I'd really love to hear your explanation on how, exactly, can Microsoft "squeeze" them.

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ubuntu-spyware.en.html

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-amazon-ads-and-data-leaks

Neither of those links have been relevant for years now, so no. E.g. the Amazon affiliate-thing was removed from Ubuntu years ago and all you're doing now is peddling FUD.

3 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Also I meant that Ubuntu and canonical are the primary reason for Snaps

And? Ubuntu and Canonical are behind a lot of stuff. That doesn't mean the stuff is magically bad or something. Come up with an ACTUAL FUCKING ARGUMENT instead of projections.

[WolframaticAlpha]

Just now, WereCatf said:

...by doing...what? Sneezing at them? Both Canonical and Red Hat have their own revenue-streams entirely independent of Microsoft, so I'd really love to hear your explanation on how, exactly, can Microsoft "squeeze" them.

Release a new windows project, bundle it and sell it for free, with integrations to their azure ecosystem.

 

Then make those integrations more difficult for rhel and ubuntu.

 

People switch to that project despite being inferior. Why? Because integrations.

 

Pump and then Pull funding from foss foundations, thus creating a revenue squeeze.

 

 

And these are just off the top of my head. Creates them right now.

[WolframaticAlpha]

1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

Neither of those links have been relevant for years now, so no. E.g. the Amazon affiliate-thing was removed from Ubuntu years ago and all you're doing now is peddling FUD.

And? Ubuntu and Canonical are behind a lot of stuff. That doesn't mean the stuff is magically bad or something. Come up with an ACTUAL FUCKING ARGUMENT instead of projections.

 It is a major fucking corpo and will serve its own functions first. It was bought out earlier and can be bought out in the future. It has nothing but warmed up to major corpos to curry their favour. It has not improved the product in 5 years(check out arch and Mankato development in the past five years and compare)

 

It has created bloated products in the past. It has willingly put adware and spyware in its free and open source software.

 

 

I am sorry, but if you think that canonical has magically become a good company in 2-3 years and has entirely changed and is now a leader for goodness in the community, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Peace. Use Ubuntu if you like it. It's just my opinion(that is shared by a lot of people) that Ubuntu is not a force for good

 

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Release a new windows project, bundle it and sell it for free, with integrations to their azure ecosystem.

 

Then make those integrations more difficult for rhel and ubuntu.

So, your argument is that the Linux-users who didn't need such a project before would suddenly be switching away from RHEL or Ubuntu just because...magic? Also, Microsoft can't make those integrations any more difficult fro RHEL and Ubuntu than any other Linux-distro, so your argument doesn't work there, either.

4 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Pump and then Pull funding from foss foundations, thus creating a revenue squeeze.

Again, that wouldn't make any of the already-existing contributions disappear. All it would do is reduce the number of new contributions -- not a squeeze for either RHEL or Ubuntu, since they have their own devs already.

[WolframaticAlpha]

Just now, WereCatf said:

So, your argument is that the Linux-users who didn't need such a project before would suddenly be switching away from RHEL or Ubuntu just because...magic? Also, Microsoft can't make those integrations any more difficult fro RHEL and Ubuntu than any other Linux-distro, so your argument doesn't work there, either.

Again, that wouldn't make any of the already-existing contributions disappear. All it would do is reduce the number of new contributions -- not a squeeze for either RHEL or Ubuntu, since they have their own devs already.

!icrosoft has made stuff harder for others in the past(Netscape)

 

While I love ms the corp and many of their products, I still firmly believe that they should not be able to influence major decisions in our Linux community

 

[WolframaticAlpha]

2 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

So, your argument is that the Linux-users who didn't need such a project before would suddenly be switching away from RHEL or Ubuntu just because...magic? Also, Microsoft can't make those integrations any more difficult fro RHEL and Ubuntu than any other Linux-distro, so your argument doesn't work there, either.

Again, that wouldn't make any of the already-existing contributions disappear. All it would do is reduce the number of new contributions -- not a squeeze for either RHEL or Ubuntu, since they have their own devs already.

When you put funds, your spending will increase. And when you pull, you will have to decrease your spending drastically. No one know what parts will be affected

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

It has not improved the product in 5 years

As someone who has been using Ubuntu for well over a decade, yes, they have.

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

It has created bloated products in the past.

Literally no one else has ever made bloated products, mmmkay.

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

It has willingly put adware and spyware in its free and open source software.

Which it also removed promptly. Also, years ago already.

3 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

I am sorry, but if you think that canonical has magically become a good company in 2-3 years and has entirely changed and is now a leader for goodness in the community, then I don't know what to tell you.

I don't care about who is the "leader for goodness." I didn't even know there was such an idiotic concept around!

[WolframaticAlpha]

5 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

So, your argument is that the Linux-users who didn't need such a project before would suddenly be switching away from RHEL or Ubuntu just because...magic? Also, Microsoft can't make those integrations any more difficult fro RHEL and Ubuntu than any other Linux-distro, so your argument doesn't work there, either.

Again, that wouldn't make any of the already-existing contributions disappear. All it would do is reduce the number of new contributions -- not a squeeze for either RHEL or Ubuntu, since they have their own devs already.

A ton of Linux users use what they get, not what they like. If MS gives you something, that while technically inferior, fulfills your general needs, then will you still pay for rhel and ubuntu enterprise?

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

!icrosoft has made stuff harder for others in the past(Netscape)

And...that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING they do is bad. Also, I'd still like to highlight the keyphrase here: "in the past."

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

When you put funds, your spending will increase. And when you pull, you will have to decrease your spending drastically.

Yes, so, on the basis of your argument, anyone who contributes to any FOSS-foundation is bad because they can then "squeeze" the foundation.

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

A ton of Linux users use what they get, not what they like. If MS gives you something, that while technically inferior, fulfills your general needs, then will you still pay for rhel and ubuntu enterprise?

If it's technically inferior, then I'll be using the technically superior stuff.

[WolframaticAlpha]

5 hours ago, WereCatf said:

As someone who has been using Ubuntu for well over a decade, yes, they have.

Literally no one else has ever made bloated products, mmmkay.

Which it also removed promptly. Also, years ago already.

I don't care about who is the "leader for goodness." I didn't even know there was such an idiotic concept around!

1. Compare their improvements with what other projects have done

2. No they did not re!I've it promptly. It took them 4 whole releases to completely remove those adware components.

3. Anbox, snaps etc. All were bloated and poor products.

 

 

5 hours ago, WereCatf said:

And...that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING they do is bad. Also, I'd still like to highlight the keyphrase here: "in the past."

Yes, so, on the basis of your argument, anyone who contributes to any FOSS-foundation is bad because they can then "squeeze" the foundation.

How does Google stand to benefit from killing Linux.

 

MS does benefit though.

 

5 hours ago, WereCatf said:

If it's technically inferior, then I'll be using the technically superior stuff.

Well, that's you. I actually just gave my coworker the same scenario and he said 'the windows stuff'

 

 

PS: I am going away right now. Need to get back to work.

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

1. Compare their improvements with what other projects have done

Why? You claimed Ubuntu has done no improvements, which is factually false. I don't care if someone else has done some improvements to something that's not relevant to me and, besides, that wasn't the argument anyways. You're just trying to shift the goalposts.

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

MS does benefit though.

They actually don't, like I mentioned already.

[Arika]

13 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

!icrosoft has made stuff harder for others in the past(Netscape)

 

did you really just try to argue that something from 2001 (when the anti-trust lawsuit was finalized) means that they are still doing the same thing to this day?

 

Mr. Fantastic would be proud of that stretch

[WolframaticAlpha]

I just reread my argument and saw how unreasonable I was being. While, imo mint and pop are still superior to stock Ubuntu, I have downloaded a 21.04 iso and will play around with it.

 

@WereCatf You win.

 

Also if you are a newbie, don't trust people who don't use Systemd.

 

5 hours ago, WereCatf said:

Why? You claimed Ubuntu has done no improvements, which is factually false. I don't care if someone else has done some improvements to something that's not relevant to me and, besides, that wasn't the argument anyways. You're just trying to shift the goalposts.

They actually don't, like I mentioned already.

Well I did put compare that to arch in there, so....

 

 

 

5 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

I just reread my argument and saw how unreasonable I was being. While, imo mint and pop are still superior to stock Ubuntu, I have downloaded a 21.04 iso and will play around with it.

 

@WereCatf You win.

 

Also if you are a newbie, don't trust people who don't use Systemd.

Well, I keep my opinion, partially.

 

Adware and spyware wasn't there

Gnome is a pain in the arse

Ubuntu store is still meh

Heavy and laggy and ppa's still suck

Nearly everything worked ootb.(Huge boon for new users)

 

It picking up my AMD card was much appreciated (passthrough). Weird tearing with Nvidia (as usual). Manually switched back to Nvidia drivers.

Overall, pop and mint are much better. But Ubuntu is ok. A solid meh distro. I would wait for some time. With Wayland it autodefaulted to nouveau or some other Foss driver. No such problem on X11. I would wait for 22.10 for GNOME 40, matured nvidia drivers Wayland and LTS.

Current driver version 465 had some weird effects in some apps. Nothing too major though.

 

Also Ubuntu distro torrent was fast af.