Apple April 20 event - New iMac and iPad Pro with M1 chips, 'AirTags' and a new iPhone color

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, hishnash said:

Tile are in a sticky situations, they just can't compete with apple when it comes to the raw number of tracking devices apple is offering and unlike other tracking vendors they do not want to join the tracking network apple has setup for third parties to join since that would break their lockin, they do not want to be competing with belkin. 
 

 

True, i think apple assume you have an apple watch for that  you can open the find my on there or ask siri ... 

I think tile can compete OK with airtags.  The big advantage of airtags includes “do you have an iPhone or not” if you don’t, TILE has no disadvantage, and it comes down to form factor and whether it is to your advantage to be able to ring your phone from a fob or not. They could lose some market share from people with iPhones switching for simplicity, but I suspect this move will also grow the market a lot because Apple is going to have to market so they may not lose much at all and may even gain.

[Bombastinator]

14 minutes ago, hishnash said:

Tile are in a sticky situations, they just can't compete with apple when it comes to the raw number of tracking devices apple is offering and unlike other tracking vendors they do not want to join the tracking network apple has setup for third parties to join since that would break their lockin, they do not want to be competing with belkin. 
 

 

True, i think apple assume you have an apple watch for that  you can open the find my on there or ask siri ... 

 

I’ll have to decide if that’s an advantage or disadvantage.  Would depend on whether you lose your keys more often or you phone.  An advantage if you only by one because some joker can’t ring your phone by stealing your keys.  Might be a disadvantage in my case some of the time.  I misplace my phone as often as I misplace my keys

[Kisai]

46 minutes ago, hishnash said:

These are low end consumer focused devices replacing the 21" iMac. Sold in large part to shops and hotels that need a front of house machine to how a calendar for manning bookings etc. That said 16GB of memory is not that bad when you consider this SoC has inline memory compression and that entire 16GB (well whatever is not being used by the os/other apps) is directly addressable by the GPU, no need to double buffer copy when displaying images etc CPU and GPU share the pointer to the same bytes so this does save memory footprint compared to other integrated GPU systems (intel) were photoshop will have a copy of the image in memory for the GPU and another identical copy for the CPU.

Nope nope nope. A typical minimum requirements PC for office today is a 16GB RAM with an iGPU for a non-gaming system and a 4GB GPU if it's intended for gaming/photoshop. So these really should be coming with 64GB if they are intended for photoshop or video editing.

 

So I'm not sure exactly who this iMac is targeted at other than people who don't want a laptop.

[hishnash]

7 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Nope nope nope. A typical minimum requirements PC for office today is a 16GB RAM with an iGPU for a non-gaming system and a 4GB GPU if it's intended for gaming/photoshop. So these really should be coming with 64GB if they are intended for photoshop or video editing.

 

So I'm not sure exactly who this iMac is targeted at other than people who don't want a laptop.

This is absolutely not intended for video editing or photoshop.  It is intended for front of house, machines in hotels hair dressers etc (running a calendar app), web browsing and doing homework as a family compute. You need to consider the machine it is replacing (the 21" mac that shipped with a shipping hardcover and a very very old i5) this machine is targeted at the people who purchased that machine not the people who purchased the 27". 

[TheSage79]

Thoughts on Apples new Products:

 

Apple Card Family: (Legit forgot about this one until I looked at a roundup list) 

-Another way to go into debt... yay? (Seriously, don't give a 13 year old a credit card! How many us could handle on of those at age 13?) I'll give Apple credit for making a credit card far less predatory than they normally are, but debt is still debt. 

 

Podcast Subscriptions (Legit forgot about this one too until I saw a roundup list)

-A way to show support to podcast producers (or at least 70% support). I am all for this.

-A new interface for the podcast app. I need to see the App myself before I make any judgements, but Apple's track record isn't so good here. 

 

Purple iPhone:

-Gimmicky... NEXT!

 

Air Tags:

-Outside of the controversy with tile, I personally see little use for airtags. I know they can help you find lost keys and whatnot, but looking at the size of those tags makes me think they are not that practical to actually put on something you would loose frequently. I am sure they are great location tags... but just not for me. 

-Only Apple could come up with designer locator tags. $299 for an Hermez branded tag? Nope!

 

Apple TV:

-If there is one area where Apple has leapfrogged the competition its in it Apple TV offering. The Apple TV was already heads above Roku and Google (with a price to match) in what it could do - but does it really matter? I think the Apple TV is one of those things where Apple over-designed something that will never be fully taken advantage of. Other than better gaming, what will that A12 processor actually bring to the table? And how many of us have actually played games on the Apple TV? The real feature here is Apples new remote. They combined the click wheel, touch surface, and physical buttons to create what appears to be a much better remote. I happen to own an Apple TV 4K and am very tempted to get this new one if just for the new remote. 

 

New iMac:

-I love the physical design (except for the chin), but I HATE HATE HATE the color choices. Wow... these things are ugly (in my very subjective opinion). Yes, the bezels are smaller, but white bezels? yuck!

-I am also disappointed that there is no M1X chip, but I think those are still coming. These iMacs seem to be geared towards replacing the 21.5 inch 4K iMacs which are part of what I like to call the "Casual Desktop" computer market. Don't get me wrong, owning an M1 MacBook Pro myself, I can vouch for the fact that the M1 SOC has been more than up to the task of handling anything I have thrown at it so far - the damn thing hasn't even broken a sweat yet. However, when it comes to desktops, energy efficiency takes a back seat to raw performance, and the AMD 5000 series is still a thing. Yes, the M1 SOC can almost match AMD's single core performance, but the 5950X has 16 of those things, while the M1 only really has 4 (the other four efficiency cores wont really help). Add to that either AMD's or nVidia's GPU, and the ability to configure more than 16GB of RAM and the M1 SOC gets completely outclassed on the desktop. So while I wont ding Apple for using the M1 on its 24" iMacs... I will ding them big time if they don't seriously upgrade for whatever is going to replace the 27" iMacs. 

 

New iPad Pro:

-Apple isn't even playing fair at this point. I generally don't like to call any computer overpowered (Who doesn't like more power?)... but the new iPad Pro is overpowered. An M1 chip on a Tablet? MicroLed HDR 120 hz display? Thunderbolt port? Up to 2TB or storage? Ridiculous battery life? Whats not to lik... oh... they can cost upwards of $2,399.00 if you want all that. Now if you need it, you need it, but I just can't see myself ever buying a tablet over a laptop in that price range. I am sure there are people who will, but I am just not one of them. 

 

Overall, I am kind of disappointed in this Apple Event. It wasn't bad or anything... but it wasn't up to my expectations. 

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, TheSage79 said:

Thoughts on Apples new Products:

 

Apple Card Family: (Legit forgot about this one until I looked at a roundup list) 

-Another way to go into debt... yay? (Seriously, don't give a 13 year old a credit card! How many us could handle on of those at age 13?) I'll give Apple credit for making a credit card far less predatory than they normally are, but debt is still debt. 

 

Podcast Subscriptions (Legit forgot about this one too until I saw a roundup list)

-A way to show support to podcast producers (or at least 70% support). I am all for this.

-A new interface for the podcast app. I need to see the App myself before I make any judgements, but Apple's track record isn't so good here. 

 

Purple iPhone:

-Gimmicky... NEXT!

 

Air Tags:

-Outside of the controversy with tile, I personally see little use for airtags. I know they can help you find lost keys and whatnot, but looking at the size of those tags makes me think they are not that practical to actually put on something you would loose frequently. I am sure they are great location tags... but just not for me. 

-Only Apple could come up with designer locator tags. $299 for an Hermez branded tag? Nope!

 

Apple TV:

-If there is one area where Apple has leapfrogged the competition its in it Apple TV offering. The Apple TV was already heads above Roku and Google (with a price to match) in what it could do - but does it really matter? I think the Apple TV is one of those things where Apple over-designed something that will never be fully taken advantage of. Other than better gaming, what will that A12 processor actually bring to the table? And how many of us have actually played games on the Apple TV? The real feature here is Apples new remote. They combined the click wheel, touch surface, and physical buttons to create what appears to be a much better remote. I happen to own an Apple TV 4K and am very tempted to get this new one if just for the new remote. 

 

New iMac:

-I love the physical design (except for the chin), but I HATE HATE HATE the color choices. Wow... these things are ugly (in my very subjective opinion). Yes, the bezels are smaller, but white bezels? yuck!

-I am also disappointed that there is no M1X chip, but I think those are still coming. These iMacs seem to be geared towards replacing the 21.5 inch 4K iMacs which are part of what I like to call the "Casual Desktop" computer market. Don't get me wrong, owning an M1 MacBook Pro myself, I can vouch for the fact that the M1 SOC has been more than up to the task of handling anything I have thrown at it so far - the damn thing hasn't even broken a sweat yet. However, when it comes to desktops, energy efficiency takes a back seat to raw performance, and the AMD 5000 series is still a thing. Yes, the M1 SOC can almost match AMD's single core performance, but the 5950X has 16 of those things, while the M1 only really has 4 (the other four efficiency cores wont really help). Add to that either AMD's or nVidia's GPU, and the ability to configure more than 16GB of RAM and the M1 SOC gets completely outclassed on the desktop. So while I wont ding Apple for using the M1 on its 24" iMacs... I will ding them big time if they don't seriously upgrade for whatever is going to replace the 27" iMacs. 

 

New iPad Pro:

-Apple isn't even playing fair at this point. I generally don't like to call any computer overpowered (Who doesn't like more power?)... but the new iPad Pro is overpowered. An M1 chip on a Tablet? MicroLed HDR 120 hz display? Thunderbolt port? Up to 2TB or storage? Ridiculous battery life? Whats not to lik... oh... they can cost upwards of $2,399.00 if you want all that. Now if you need it, you need it, but I just can't see myself ever buying a tablet over a laptop in that price range. I am sure there are people who will, but I am just not one of them. 

 

Overall, I am kind of disappointed in this Apple Event. It wasn't bad or anything... but it wasn't up to my expectations. 

Whether airtags or TILE is any use to you would depend on how often you misplace things and how big a PITA it is for you.  They DO take up space.  They make keychains bigger and wallets thicker also they cost a decent amount of money.  It becomes a trade off as to how big a problem you are solving.  I learned about TILE from a friend of mine who had a mother with Alzheimer’s who was losing things and becoming incredibly distraught over it.  There was a good deal of weeping.  The things were a godsend in that case.  I probably would have agreed with you in my 20’s though. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Spindel]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Nope nope nope. A typical minimum requirements PC for office today is a 16GB RAM with an iGPU for a non-gaming system and a 4GB GPU if it's intended for gaming/photoshop. So these really should be coming with 64GB if they are intended for photoshop or video editing.

 

So I'm not sure exactly who this iMac is targeted at other than people who don't want a laptop.

After your claims of what specs AutoCAD needs I take this post with an sack of salt. 

[avg123]

4 hours ago, Kisai said:

Nope nope nope. A typical minimum requirements PC for office today is a 16GB RAM with an iGPU for a non-gaming system and a 4GB GPU if it's intended for gaming/photoshop. So these really should be coming with 64GB if they are intended for photoshop or video editing.

 

So I'm not sure exactly who this iMac is targeted at other than people who don't want a laptop.

i dont know what kind of office you are thinking of but 99% of office computers are only used for spreadsheet, word, email, and browsing and these imacs are actually overpowered for that rather than being underpowered.

 

Most enterprise software nowadays runs on the cloud and is accessed through browsers.

 

these imacs are also great for schools, front office, casual home use. etc

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, avg123 said:

Most enterprise software nowadays runs on the cloud and is accessed through browsers.

Or the client end application is not resource intensive at all, or is presented to the client computer/device via Application Publishing (RDS App/Citrix etc). Typical corporate software like a purchase order system software isn't hard to run, all the real work is done on the database end and batch application servers.

 

Edit:

Also the current M1 devices photo and video edit just fine so it's not going to not be able to do that when put in to an iMac.

[leadeater]

12 hours ago, BondiBlue said:

They have also moved the power supply to an external unit

Oh darn, that's actually really disappointing. One of the thing's I hate the most about other, Windows, All-in-One computers are the external power bricks.

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, justpoet said:

I would be all over it.  I normally carry an iPad around with me and leave my laptop docked at home unless I need to do computing instead of referencing/updating/recording.

Mode switching would be cool, iOS by default and then can switch in to Mac OS mode on demand or when docked in to a TB dock that has a screen etc attached. Would be a unique and awesome feature for the iPad Pro that that iPad does not have.

 

Edit:

9 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

they should allow the iPad Pro to run either MacOS or iOS depending on user choice. I think Mac OS would be fitting on it for some people.

lol woops was already suggested, peril of reading a topic in reverse order.

[avg123]

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Oh darn, that's actually really disappointing. One of the thing's I hate the most about other, Windows, All-in-One computers are the external power bricks.

the imacs are too slim to have psu built in.

they would either need to make the whole imac a lot thicker or have a weitd ugly bulge to fit in a psu.

to put it into perspective how thin the new imac is, its barely thicker than a 3.5mm headphone jack.

 

Edit: Its only 5mm thick  Its thinner than an iPhone. The previous iMac was 17.5mm thick. The have made it more than 3x thinner

[Video Beagle]

12 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

Why did they bring MagSafe to the iMac and not the MacBook?

Rush to market. The M1 macbooks were old designs with the new chip in them, while this is, as touted "designed for the m1".  I think we'll see the new magsafe show up in other products as new hardware shows up.

 

EDIT: just remembered, the 2 in one cable for power and networking.. Steve Jobs' vision way back when was to get everything down to one cable. This is just more of that in action.

 

12 hours ago, Flannelist said:

So the rest of the internals are just empty space?

Isn't the rest "display stuff"? like, there's not that much space that isn't just monitor.

 

11 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

The iPad Pro is 100% going to be a paper launch.

 

Chip shortage + display panel shortage, and the new iPad Pro uses Mini LED displays. I would be surprised if these things don't sell out in minutes.

I guess it depends on your defintions....but this kind of logistics..having stuff on hand to sell etc...that was Tim Cook's whole deal before becoming CEO.

 

Also, Apple sets the time tables....they're not really competing against others the way intel vs amd is...they pretty much set a launch time when they're ready to launch, not because they need a product out to combat a rivals...I think they'll sell out, but it's going to be a "wow, we didn't anticipate this much demand >wink<" pr sell out, not a "we don't have the product" egg on face sell out.

 

4 hours ago, TheSage79 said:

Air Tags:

-Only Apple could come up with designer locator tags. $299 for an Hermez branded tag? Nope!

 

I mean... literally it isn't "only Apple" as it's Apple and Hermés.

 

Like, I don't know who thinks there's someone out there who wants a $300 or whatever luggage tag, but I don't think Hermés does this if they don't think it'll sell.

 

4 hours ago, TheSage79 said:

Apple TV:

-I happen to own an Apple TV 4K and am very tempted to get this new one if just for the new remote.

 

The new remote is the only thing announced today that I'm tempted by (it's sold separately for $60). BUT...not for $60.

 

Everything is pretty neat.. the new stuff in the Apple TV 4k are cool..but my current 4k (and ATV3 in the bedroom) handle my needs just fine as is. HDR is a young man's game, and my eyesight just doesn't let me care that much   (But MAN does that screen calibration thing it does sound cool...and you know that's a tech that's gonna show up in the Mac down the road).

 

The new iMac's are good, but I'm ok waiting longer to replace mine for the M1 to mature..or move to M2 or whatever.. We'll see what's what when WWDC rolls around.

 

I like the ideas of airtags, but other than for my plush beagle when traveling, I don't have the need...and I'm not sure it'll work with my iPhone SE2020...have to wait for more details on that.

 

The iPad Pro is amazing, but so far beyond anything I can even imagine as my needs it's ridiculous.

 

I am glad LMG has the new Apple Channel so they can justify getting some of these things and using them across the channels for content

----

The presentation was obviously a lot of marketing tat because of course it was.  And there was all kind of goofy stuff...the Mission Impossible bit where a vaguely young bill gates-ish looking theif pulls off the mask to become Tim Cook? Was equal parts cringey and just awesomely silly.

 

I found myself really focusing on what "side things" showed up on screen...nothing you saw was there by accident..  so like the Apple TV interface showing the Disney+ app prominetly...or the Apple TV+ programs showing the SNOOPY show, though they never mentioned it...And Snoopy showing up in the Ipad Pro ad...(I obviously ike Snoopy )

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, avg123 said:

the imacs are too slim to have psu built in.

Yes these ones are, the old ones no. That's one of the things I liked about iMacs. These new ones didn't have to be that thin or that shape, it's just a choice that was made and it's something I just don't like about it. It's a genuine positive about a product that is now gone for me.

 

I've had to install a couple of computer labs with 30 HP Elite AIO's and the power bricks were just awful to deal with, while on the other hand doing the exact same thing in labs with iMacs, boy what a dream.

 

Edit:

Also being thinner does not make something better. Thinness in laptops is directly making them worse, because they have been doing it at a rate faster than the technology can allow it to actually work optimally. It's just a factor to consider and analyze. 

[Jet_ski]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Oh darn, that's actually really disappointing. One of the thing's I hate the most about other, Windows, All-in-One computers are the external power bricks.

I mean the iMac is literally an iPad with a stand, and iPad chargers have always been external.

 

4 hours ago, hishnash said:

This is absolutely not intended for video editing or photoshop.  It is intended for front of house, machines in hotels hair dressers etc (running a calendar app), web browsing and doing homework as a family compute. You need to consider the machine it is replacing (the 21" mac that shipped with a shipping hardcover and a very very old i5) this machine is targeted at the people who purchased that machine not the people who purchased the 27". 

As someone with the M1 MacBook Pro with 8GB of RAM, I know the 16gb RAM variants can absolutely handle Photoshop and video editing. They handle 4K footage smoothly; haven’t tried 8K. (I say this because underneath the M1 devices have the same hardware). You should try an M1 Mac for yourself.

[avg123]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes these ones are, the old ones no. That's one of the things I liked about iMacs. These new ones didn't have to be that thin or that shape, it's just a choice that was made and it's something I just don't like about it. It's a genuine positive about a product that is now gone for me.

 

I've had to install a couple of computer labs with 30 HP Elite AIO's and the power bricks were just awful to deal with, while on the other hand doing the exact same thing in labs with iMacs, boy what a dream.

I dont know if you read my edit but its only 5mm thick!! 5mm. thats thinner than the thinnest phone ever made. thats incredible

 

the power bricks are pretty small though, if that helps. and has built in ethernet.

[Video Beagle]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I've had to install a couple of computer labs with 30 HP Elite AIO's and the power bricks were just awful to deal with, while on the other hand doing the exact same thing in labs with iMacs, boy what a dream.

 

From the looks, these new bricks don't look too big, and them combining the power and network I could see make set up in a lab actually easier...... The problem I see is it being easy for swinging legs to kick out the mag power cable.. that could be a problem.

[Jet_ski]

9 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

they should allow the iPad Pro to run either MacOS or iOS depending on user choice. I think Mac OS would be fitting on it for some people.

Mixing UI for different input devices is a disasters, I think the Windows 10 UI is a testament to that. Touchscreen UI need larger buttons which make the mouse+keyboard experience horrible.

 

The iPad is perfect for those who use it like a notebook:mobile device. Making it a PC would ruin the product.

[Video Beagle]

3 minutes ago, Jet_ski said:

As someone with the M1 MacBook Pro with 8GB of RAM, I know the 16gb RAM variants can absolutely handle Photoshop and video editing. They handle 4K footage smoothly; haven’t tried 8K.

So your 8gb has no problems with photoshop? How big of stuff do you do in it?

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

 

From the looks, these new bricks don't look too big, and them combining the power and network I could see make set up in a lab actually easier...... The problem I see is it being easy for swinging legs to kick out the mag power cable.. that could be a problem.

To be honest my comment was just a reaction, had a look at the picture of it and yea size wise not bad at all. The HP Elite AIO power bricks were about the same size as a Mac Mini, not even joking.

[Video Beagle]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

To be honest my comment was just a reaction, had a look at the picture of it and yea size wise not bad at all. The HP Elite AIO power bricks were about the same size as a Mac Mini, not even joking.

My comment though has me wondering... what happens if the plug gets kicked out?  My Macbook Pro (on right now) is 14 years old..and it has the original mag safe... if the cord gets kicked out..well no problem, it's on battery..it's a laptop.  A lock on the power plug on the new imac defeats the point on the mag safe..but no lock, and a kick you lose network and worse, power. Is there a battery backup? It wasn't mentioned,.. Like, I'm sure this potential design prblem occured to someone other than an insomniac beagle addict at 2am...

[Laborant]

For me the disappointing thing about the iPad Pro is the lack of a Touch-ID fingerprint reader. 

 

Regarding the new iMacs, I expect them to be the computer of choice for (elementary) Schools in Switzerland in the future. In addition, with work-from-home regimes seemingly staying for longer than "just" COVID, with this low profile (but the ergonomic position of the monitor) I can see many people or even businesses buying such things for working from home.

The iMac is still (and was always) the "do simple work"-Mac. People complaining about 8GB not being enough have not seen any review of the M1-Macbooks/Mac Mini and still expect the "do simple work"-Mac to replace a fully fledged workstation.

When I look up on Switzerland's tech-onlineshop of choice, most business oriented desktop-PCs are still shipped with 8GB of RAM. 

[Jet_ski]

14 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

So your 8gb has no problems with photoshop? How big of stuff do you do in it?

I did a few designs roughly 1200x1000 cm and the psd file ended up 200mb.
 

Still, Adobe’s code isn’t well optimized. I had some large 500mb-5gb tiff images. For those I had to switch to Affinity which is better optimized. For those kinds of files, it struggles a bit as they take up lots of RAM and SWAP. The OS and device remain responsive but the RAM+SWAP usages increases.

[Jet_ski]

1 minute ago, Laborant said:

For me the disappointing thing about the iPad Pro is the lack of a Touch-ID fingerprint reader. 

 

Regarding the new iMacs, I expect them to be the computer of choice for (elementary) Schools in Switzerland in the future. In addition, with work-from-home regimes seemingly staying for longer than "just" COVID, with this low profile (but the ergonomic position of the monitor) I can see many people or even businesses buying such things for working from home.

The iMac is still (and was always) the "do simple work"-Mac. People complaining about 8GB not being enough have not seen any review of the M1-Macbooks/Mac Mini and still expect the "do simple work"-Mac to replace a fully fledged workstation.

When I look up on Switzerland's tech-onlineshop of choice, most business oriented desktop-PCs are still shipped with 8GB of RAM. 

I have the 8GB M1 MacBook Pro. I’ve opened some really large files that require more than 8GB of RAM, the system can handle about up to 30GB of SWAP memory. And since the storage is really fast, it’s functional. But I’d definitely go for the 16gb for serious workloads.

[Kisai]

39 minutes ago, avg123 said:

i dont know what kind of office you are thinking of but 99% of office computers are only used for spreadsheet, word, email, and browsing and these imacs are actually overpowered for that rather than being underpowered.

Because you're not thinking of data entry, you're thinking of offices that write two page emails and not 600 page project documents. I've seen 8GB machines meltdown over opening spreadsheets and exchange inboxes.

 

39 minutes ago, avg123 said:

Most enterprise software nowadays runs on the cloud and is accessed through browsers.

Nope, and where do you think the browser stores that data when you access it via the cloud? It's not sending updates after every key stroke. It's more like every 10 minutes, and if you're accessing 30,000 row documents, that is literately pushing multi-hundred-MB updates.

 

39 minutes ago, avg123 said:

these imacs are also great for schools, front office, casual home use. etc

I didn't say they weren't. I said these are unsuitable for the software advertised. If you are just using a Citrix client, you clearly don't need anything more complicated than something that "just works". But if you're going to web-client everything, that's going to be a short-lived device. Like we are already disposing of the laptops with 8GB/iGPU laptops because they are not sufficient to run Office365.