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Download a Faster GPU! - This Method REALLY Works!

AMD introduced Smart Access Memory with their Radeon 6000 series, and since then pressure has been on for Nvidia to respond. Now that they finally have, is it enough?

 

 

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I don't usually complain about video titles, but I just don't get this one. You aren't downloading a GPU, let alone a faster one. 

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The Floatplane title: "Time for a FREE upgrade - Nvidia Resizable BAR support" is much better but I don't like it that the word free is all capslocked. 

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9 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

I don't usually complain about video titles, but I just don't get this one. You aren't downloading a GPU, let alone a faster one. 

fight this by ignoring that video and wait for the next one

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Just now, MAXXPRO said:

fight this by ignoring that video and wait for the next one

I don't even watch all videos from LTT anymore, and I don't even have a modern Nvidia GPU, so this one doesn't apply to me. 

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Just now, BondiBlue said:

I don't even watch all videos from LTT anymore, and I don't even have a modern Nvidia GPU, so this one doesn't apply to me. 

sometimes it's interesting and informative enough to watch it anyway but this time resizable bar is well known topic 

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still trying to download my RAM, cant do GPU right now

 

also: rebar for 20 series pls

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Having already explained what Resizable bar is before and why it really isn't a worth while feature to even talk much about.

 

Resizable bar does allow us to change the size of the memory address field in the PCIe package header, a fairly minor thing in itself. Allowing us to reach a 38 bit address range or 512 GB of memory. (and yes 512 GB needs 39 bits, but PCIe addresses byte pairs.)

 

There is also "Expanded resizable BAR" that allows a 263 bit address range, or enough to give every single atom in all of the universe its own address, a bit overkill to say the least. (though, in HPC applications we can actually do some clever stuff here to use that extra address space for other features.)

 

But here is the real part about why resizable bar doesn't matter in the slightest for games.

 

A competently made graphics engine doesn't need to access most of the graphics memory, Ever. The CPU will instead buffer assets into the 256 MB shared memory and the GPU will shuffle it away behind the scenes. Our buffer will also handle all of our render calls, a fairly small amount of data to be fair. There is no need for our CPU to change what portions of VRAM it works with.

 

Resizable bar however is more interesting if we do tons of asset loading, like when we do direct asset streaming from storage. BUT, the PCIe package header does indicate who the sender is, IE, the GPU knows if it is the CPU or the storage device talking. And the feature to shift our address range to various portions of VRAM is a GPU BIOS/firmware feature, not a PCIe one, so the GPU can handle one offset for the CPU and another offset for the storage.

 

Also, we do have to look at where resizable bar even comes from.

 

Resizable bar is part of PCIe specs since 2008, yes that is over a decade ago. (even extended resizable bar is about that old as well.)

The feature were mainly developed for HPC applications where our co processors deals with larger datasets where we can need to access any asset within our dataset at any given point in time. Together with parallel access, then having a larger address space is easier than having to worry about keeping track of who is where in memory, especially when all calls comes from a similar source.

 

For games, resizable bar if anything shows that a graphics engine is poorly optimized and jumps about in memory like a maniac, something that isn't needed if one optimizes the code.

If you are using consumer grade GPUs for Computational Fluid Dynamics simulation, Neural Networks (AI), Weather Forecasting, or other project requiring tons of data and where lower average latency access is beneficial, then resizable bar is an advantage. But increasing the address size increases the package header size and associated overhead, and can in the worst case lead to a performance regression.

EDIT: The only real reason I see for nVidia to support resizable bar is due to AMD supporting it on their consumer products. It is the common, "But they do it! So we must do it too!" (Like Applie removing the headphone jack and everyone else following suit...) Why AMD started supporting it, my guess is that they simply looked at the fact that it will technically give a small performance boost for poorly optimized graphics engines, and when being the underdog with worse performance and a harder time selling stuff, one will tend to pull at any straw in reach that paints a pretty picture, even if it isn't all that applicable. BUT, it takes time doing research and rolling out features, so they might have set out on this adventure many months before they released it a few months ago, ie, Covid, work from home and crypto mining making the perfect GPU selling year Ever, were likely not even considered a realistic scenario at the time they made their work on the feature.

In the end.
I have full understanding for why nVidia didn't "implement" the feature on consumer products. It is a niche feature that mainly is useful in the HPC world.
And games that shows little to no improvement shows how well optimized they are. (unless they simply don't care about the feature. Something that can be the case, implementing new hardware features doesn't directly translate to programs instantly making use of it, especially older programs, but I suspect that the resizable bar in regards to GPUs are more on a driver level than direct software/game-engine interaction with the hardware.)

So why hype over resizable bar?
And yes, this is likely TL:DR.

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Borderlands 3 runs like dog shit with ReBAR enabled. Ryzen 5800X, 32GB RAM and RTX 3080. Framerate is high, but level loading is visibly slower as you get dropped on a map and you can see totally washed out textures getting replaced by higher quality ones (while game is lagging like it's loading from slow HDD into too little RAM) and as you're entering new segments of map game stutters and lags like fucking hell. Especially when you return to Sanctuary 3 to a point game is literally making half a second pauses. As soon as I disable ReBAR, framerate might feel slightly lower, but there is no stuttering and lag. So weird.

 

I've posted about it on Borderlands subreddit and only response I got was a downvote by someone. And that was that. I can't figure out what's the reason for such absurd behavior that makes no sense at all. One would expect wider highway for data between CPU and GPU should at worst make no difference. Not such massively negative effect.

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I used to watch every upload but with the new thumbnails and titles, I read the description before making any commitment

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12 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Borderlands 3 runs like dog shit with ReBAR enabled. Ryzen 5800X, 32GB RAM and RTX 3080. Framerate is high, but level loading is visibly slower as you get dropped on a map and you can see totally washed out textures getting replaced by higher quality ones (while game is lagging like it's loading from slow HDD into too little RAM) and as you're entering new segments of map game stutters and lags like fucking hell. Especially when you return to Sanctuary 3 to a point game is literally making half a second pauses. As soon as I disable ReBAR, framerate might feel slightly lower, but there is no stuttering and lag. So weird.

 

I've posted about it on Borderlands subreddit and only response I got was a downvote by someone. And that was that. I can't figure out what's the reason for such absurd behavior that makes no sense at all. One would expect wider highway for data between CPU and GPU should at worst make no difference. Not such massively negative effect.

Resizable bar doesn't increase the width of our bus.

All that it does is allow the system to increase the memory address field in the PCIe package header. If increased, it also increases the package header size and the overhead associated with it. This in fact reduces our peak bandwidth slightly. And this could theoretically decrease performance.

But the problem you describe sounds more like the graphics engine and GPU driver having a fight.

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This title is so absolutely horrible it makes me want to unsubscribe. Seriously. Stop.

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2 hours ago, BondiBlue said:

I don't usually complain about video titles, but I just don't get this one. You aren't downloading a GPU, let alone a faster one. 

The title is super clickbait 

2 hours ago, soldier_ph said:

The Floatplane title: "Time for a FREE upgrade - Nvidia Resizable BAR support" is much better but I don't like it that the word free is all capslocked. 

Didn't know that they use different titles for Floatplane

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Quick question, if I understand correctly, the Resizable BAR of Nvidia only works for the 3000 series? No other GPUs?

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Just now, mr_itu said:

Quick question, if I understand correctly, the Resizable BAR of Nvidia only works for the 3000 series? No other GPUs?

So far, just 3000-series, yes.

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1 hour ago, Nystemy said:

Resizable bar doesn't increase the width of our bus.

All that it does is allow the system to increase the memory address field in the PCIe package header. If increased, it also increases the package header size and the overhead associated with it. This in fact reduces our peak bandwidth slightly. And this could theoretically decrease performance.

But the problem you describe sounds more like the graphics engine and GPU driver having a fight.

I didn't even say that... And neither does explain why giving it more freedom result in such horrific performance penalty. It literally feels like I've thrown my SSD out of the system and I'm running Borderlands 3 from HDD now. Except it still loads quickly into the game, but runs like crap when its in it.

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21 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I didn't even say that... And neither does explain why giving it more freedom result in such horrific performance penalty. It literally feels like I've thrown my SSD out of the system and I'm running Borderlands 3 from HDD now. Except it still loads quickly into the game, but runs like crap when its in it.

My guess would be that it might resize the bar too often, resizing the bar is having a performance penalty each time one does it, and likely requires a quiet bus since one redefines the package header format itself.
And resizable bar changes a property of the whole PCIe fabric itself, so it could potentially interfere with NVMe storage and other PCIe connected storage controllers among other things depending on how the fabric is divided, but with direct storage becomming a thing, then this is just another can of worms sprinkled on top, but I haven't read into this all that much.

Resizable bar comes from the HPC world, where a given system is tailor made to a specific application, so there is a lot more tight control over ensuring compatibility. In comparison, the general PC is just a lawless wild west, I personally am surprised that people don't complain about more buggy behavior to be fair.

Though, I have already written a lengthy comment above as to why resizable bar is a gimmick in gaming applications regardless.

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The only people who would look at this title and think it's anymore more than dishonest bullshit, is probably the people you don't really want watching your videos anyway.

 

ANY video with "....this method really works" is ALWAYS 100% crap. Stop hiding behind "the algorithm makes us do it" and the fans saying "they have to make money".

 

Your audience isn't stupid, but you sure as hell do treat them like they are.

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Judge the product by its own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

Don't dilute <good thing> by always trying to focus on, and drag conversation back to, <bad thing>.

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5 hours ago, FakeKGB said:

So far, just 3000-series, yes.

Which puts this video into the "99% of us don't care, because we don't have a 3000-series GPU" category.

Sadly..

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And that band aid on the forehead is from getting hit in the face with the eggplant, zucchini and banana :old-tongue:

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11 hours ago, Nystemy said:

My guess would be that it might resize the bar too often, resizing the bar is having a performance penalty each time one does it, and likely requires a quiet bus since one redefines the package header format itself.
And resizable bar changes a property of the whole PCIe fabric itself, so it could potentially interfere with NVMe storage and other PCIe connected storage controllers among other things depending on how the fabric is divided, but with direct storage becomming a thing, then this is just another can of worms sprinkled on top, but I haven't read into this all that much.

Resizable bar comes from the HPC world, where a given system is tailor made to a specific application, so there is a lot more tight control over ensuring compatibility. In comparison, the general PC is just a lawless wild west, I personally am surprised that people don't complain about more buggy behavior to be fair.

Though, I have already written a lengthy comment above as to why resizable bar is a gimmick in gaming applications regardless.

Which is even weirder since storage is SATA which means it's totally separate from PCIe.

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14 hours ago, DankDoodles said:

What is the difference between 100% and 100%?
Did they round decimals to the nearest whole number, displayed it as that number, but show the actual unrounded information through the graph size?

I'm confused

its not just the 100%... drives me nuts 😭

allignffs.png.1231379bb124c7bdf0c4d620bddf284b.png

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1 hour ago, Dujith said:

its not just the 100%... drives me nuts 😭

allignffs.png.1231379bb124c7bdf0c4d620bddf284b.png

LTT is trialing resizable BAR graphs, and i have to say, this method REALLY doesn't work

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