Why are there not any PGA latching "mechanisms" like intel has?

[Orian Pax]

no i am not talking about LGA vs PGA.
1) but instead i am furious at how many posts i have seen for the last 12 months about people ripping out CPU with cooler?
rant : i have read 100s of comments saying how much they fear if they got any PGA cpu and it's not in motherboard (we are talking about normal people now don't go and say let them but a cpu tray.) explaining there fear of dropping/falling of cpu accidentally and bending of pins for silly reason.   
rant end.

         

 

---------------------------------------------

 

actual question -
2) Why are there not any PGA latching "mechanisms" like intel has? damn it this is 2021

---------------------------------------------------------------------

3) and then there's this guy

 

who makes cpu cleaning look like this (the mom art of this video)

4) well i think the only two things which gives a LGA socket an extra point over PGA socket is that you can clean thermal paste easily even if u put thermal paste in cpu socket or CPUs golden on dots
the other thing is the cpu holding system/ latch LGA has!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

actual questions -
5) Why can't PGA socket have that kind of mechanism? or something similar?
what are your thoughts on this?

6) is there anyone who has created a mod to hold PGA cpu or latching system for PGA?

 

 

[Sakkura]

I don't see any reason you couldn't have a better latching system with PGA, just AMD has picked a pretty flimsy one for some reason.

 

Also, I completely disagree that it's easy to clean an LGA socket if you get thermal paste into it.

[freeagent]

There is this if you are scared of ripping your CPU out..

 

Thermalright SST AMD AMD AM4 Anti drop bracket cpu fixing bracket With TF7 silicone grease set|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress

 

 

[FeIIex]

I refurbish donated pc's where I work, and this exact mechanism saved a few systems where the thermal paste became an intense adhesive.

[Guest]

Oh no. The cpu pulled out....

Who gives a shit. Put it back in and use it.

 

What's the big deal with all the strong feelings about it?

[Orian Pax]

59 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Oh no. The cpu pulled out....

the bent pins,
cpu falling off from heat sink after it came up with sink (yep been there seen that),

even broken pins which are sometimes left in socket and one has to spend a while, even hours, to find em.
and warranty doesn't cover bent pins.

 

59 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Who gives a shit. Put it back in and use it.

 

What's the big deal with all the strong feelings about it?

bcuz it's so near... soooo close to be perfect/better what's with the hold up from companies?
(yes whenever there's a thing which can be perfect but a silly thing is stopping it from being that, i truly hate that feeling. that' my weakness and pisses me off so much.)

and temporary ways like this,

"Gotta warm that cpu up before pulling or gotta warm that thermal paste or make your pc thermal shut down,"

i don't like em. while the latching system like lga is much safer granted amd might have to change the shape of their cpu lid.

 

59 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

What's the big deal with all the strong feelings about it?

yeah..... like i mentioned 12 months of pga socket pulled out and then problem with cpu posts but that was just rant part.

i am just a bit disappointed that even after a decade there's not much innovation for pga latching mechanism.
so @ShrimpBrimeyou got something to say/contribute about the actual questions?


 

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

Also, I completely disagree that it's easy to clean an LGA socket if you get thermal paste into it.

he he but that's easy for both lga and pga sockets. i have done that too twice but not with my mobo, never happened with me.
time stamp - 07:33

 

[WhitetailAni]

2 minutes ago, Orian Pax said:

the bent pins,

I accidentally bent pins on my Ryzen 5 1600X because the cooler latching mechanism was weird.

It only pulled up on one side.

I then got an R5 3600, put that in, pulled the cooler off straight out and the CPU stayed in.

[Orian Pax]

8 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

I accidentally bent pins on my Ryzen 5 1600X because the cooler latching mechanism was weird.

It only pulled up on one side.

I then got an R5 3600, put that in, pulled the cooler off straight out and the CPU stayed in.

i see, sad to hear that, did it survive? if it did? good, if it didn't? RIP (i am in a hurry right now god darn this headache.)

but even pulling straight can pull out the cpu bcuz of the thermal paste and that's why i said pga needs better latching system?
and asked if there has anyone did some sort of mod too.

 

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, Orian Pax said:

i see, sad to hear that, did it survive? if it did? good, if it didn't? RIP (i am in a hurry right now god darn this headache.)

The 1600X I kept and I think I bent the pins back, but I don't have another AM4 motherboard to test it in.

The 3600 is fine. I'm using it right now.

1 minute ago, Orian Pax said:

but even pulling straight can pull out the cpu bcuz of the thermal paste and that's why i said pga needs better latching system?
and asked if there has anyone did some sort of mod too.

This:

1 hour ago, freeagent said:

Thermalright SST AMD AMD AM4 Anti drop bracket cpu fixing bracket With TF7 silicone grease set|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Orian Pax said:

 

i am just a bit disappointed that even after a decade there's not much innovation for pga latching mechanism.
so @ShrimpBrimeyou got something to say/contribute about the actual questions?

Well not really because it's only a rant based on opinion and that is great!!

 

Bent pins in LGA is just as common as pent pins on PGA. 

 

What's the most common cure for LGA dropping a DIMM slot.... A reseat. 

What's the most common cause for LGA no post. Cooler mounting was too tight.

 

I mean we could lay out the pro's and con's to either fastening device I suppose. 

Really it's those whom have little to no experience have the most issues.

 

I've flipped 3 boards off my bench in the last 24 hours so far and about 5 different cpus.

One platform was socket 771 x2 cpu super mirco to s939 for a board shipped to me for testing to an X58 with i7 980.

 

Now I didn't have any issues removing my waterblock from either platform. Something I may do multiple times any given day I might be working on the bench playing with processors.

 

To the questions.

 

Why change something that has worked fine for 99% of users out there, 90% of all PCs pre-built and not custom built. That's why no extra innovation has been applied to making a new PGA socket clamp mechanism. 

[Orian Pax]

52 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Why change something that has worked fine for 99% of users out there, 90% of all PCs pre-built and not custom built. That's why no extra innovation has been applied to making a new PGA socket clamp mechanism. 

so u r going to stay true to your moto, " If it ain't broken, don't fix it!"
i see.

the rant part was only this btw -

 

" 1) but instead i am furious at how many posts i have seen for the last 12 months about people ripping out CPU with cooler?
rant : i have read 100s of comments saying how much they fear if they got any PGA cpu and it's not in motherboard (we are talking about normal people now don't go and say let them but a cpu tray.) explaining there fear of dropping/falling of cpu accidentally and bending of pins for silly reason."

 

52 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Bent pins in LGA is just as common as pent pins on PGA. 

 

What's the most common cure for LGA dropping a DIMM slot.... A reseat. 

What's the most common cause for LGA no post. Cooler mounting was too tight.

 

I mean we could lay out the pro's and con's to either fastening device I suppose. 

Really it's those whom have little to no experience have the most issues.

 

I've flipped 3 boards off my bench in the last 24 hours so far and about 5 different cpus.

One platform was socket 771 x2 cpu super mirco to s939 for a board shipped to me for testing to an X58 with i7 980.

 

Now I didn't have any issues removing my waterblock from either platform. Something I may do multiple times any given day I might be working on the bench playing with processors.

like i said it was not about lga vs pga. it's about improvement.
https://www.google.com/search?q=improvment+meant&client=firefox-b-d&ei=mhJyYIPRBqCQ4-EPrNqGkAY&oq=improvment+meant&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgAEAoyBAgAEAoyBAgAEAoyBwgAELEDEAoyBAgAEAoyBAgAEAoyBAgAEAoyBAgAEAoyBAgAEAoyBAgAEAo6BwgAEEcQsAM6BwgAELADEEM6BwgAELEDEENQmA5Y5xRgwRVoAXACeACAAcQBiAG7B5IBAzAuNpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQrAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiDhuDiyfTvAhUgyDgGHSytAWIQ4dUDCAw&uact=5

 

"a thing that makes something better or is better than something else"

 

 

 

52 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Bent pins in LGA is just as common as pent pins on PGA. 

yes but one can get new mobo i guess u don't know this,
https://pcpartpicker.com/forums/topic/267348-bent-pin-in-cpu-socket-not-covered-by-warranty

 

but just like kakarotto mentioned -
"That's funny because I've returned 2 defective boards to Fry's electronics and when they checked the socket they found nothing. I've swapped out processors hundreds of times for whatever reason and it's very, very difficult to bend 1 pin. It's one of those things where if pins get bent it's at least going to be several, not just one. Some of these motherboard companies take this excuse when a board is returned to them."

(another side note is you can fry your mobo to get a replacement.... yeah.... i got a friend who did it and managed to get new one.... he is a hoarder....)

 

but you don't get new cpu for bent pins, yes u can unbend or even reattach them but still there's this slight advantage lga ( it's very, very difficult to bend 1 pin) got and pga has got some room for improvement
there's no down side to it, is there?
and when there's global chip shortage i would say it's worth it would have been worth it for those who got the cpus and couldn't fix it or wasted time/mood bcuz missing or bent pins.

i would love to see a happier world, even if that change is tiny, at the cost of change of lid shape and a better holding system.

 

52 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Why change something that has worked fine for 99% of users out there, 90% of all PCs pre-built and not custom built.

hmm i didn't know this. and it also means - that many people don't tamper with their pcs? damn.
(tamper as in changing,upgrading,cleaning,reapplying things periodically).

 

52 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Why change something that has worked fine for 99% of users out there.

and many just got used to it, yes they pointed it out that's why i could remember it so clearly (getting their cpu ripped out even if they pulled it out straight).

i would still like to see improvement with the pda cpu socket holding/latch system, since there's no down side (unless i get to know some).

[Orian Pax]

58 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Really it's those whom have little to no experience have the most issues.

i doubt that but i understood what u were trying to imply.

this pic is a must see!

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6d7bc1bf84a84716b3f269f5cfc27c4b1.jpg

 

[Sakkura]

1 hour ago, Orian Pax said:

he he but that's easy for both lga and pga sockets. i have done that too twice but not with my mobo, never happened with me.

time stamp - 07:33

 

Not that realistic as it's dried. I'm thinking of a proper goopy thermal paste between the pins. That's gonna be really annoying to get out, just flooding the place with solvent isn't a good solution to that either.

[Letgomyleghoe]

54 minutes ago, Orian Pax said:

but you don't get new cpu for bent pins, yes u can unbend or even reattach them but still there's this slight advantage lga ( it's very, very difficult to bend 1 pin) got and pga has got some room for improvement

he's not saying there's no downside, there's downside to both sockets. It's very difficult to bend just one pin on both platforms, and bending a pin on a cpu is much, much easier to fix then bending a pin on a motherboard. I don't see how lga has the advantage, please enlighten me,.

 

56 minutes ago, Orian Pax said:

yes but one can get new mobo i guess u don't know this,

yes but people can bend the pins back, or buy a new cpu, guess u don't know this. 

From experience it's so, so much easier to bend pins back on a cpu, while being nearly impossible on a motherboard. 

56 minutes ago, Orian Pax said:

i doubt that but i understood what u were trying to imply.

this pic is a must see!

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6d7bc1bf84a84716b3f269f5cfc27c4b1.jpg

 

People who know what they're doing rarely have issues, how do you doubt that lmao? it's like driving a car, who's more likely to get in an accident, someone who's been driving for 20+ years with thousands of hours of experience, or someone who is just learning?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Orian Pax said:

i doubt that but i understood what u were trying to imply.

this pic is a must see!

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6d7bc1bf84a84716b3f269f5cfc27c4b1.jpg

 

As neat as this product is, it does Not change the design of the socket like you are inquiring about. That would come from the motherboard manufacturers based off of AMD's design specs. I imagine money may have something to do with it. The plastic is much cheaper to produce than the metal brackets of LGA and this helps keep consumer costs down. 

 

So no, that add on bracket is not your actual answer, nothing more than a temporary fix to the issue. And not a bad one either I don't think. 

 

Since I delid a lot of processors, most of the time the IHS plate just pops off the die and the plate is stuck to the cooler. I just twist the plate, and it comes right off. 

 

 

[freeagent]

After spending the last 10 years with Intel, my biggest fear moving back to AMD was those effing pins lol.. I ripped out CPU's in the past as was ok most of the time except one time. Its always that one time that sours your opinion lol.. I've had my cooler off four or five times now on my new AMD setup, and the CPU stayed where I put it.. there is a technique to getting the cooler off while leaving the CPU behind. Push down and twist and rock it just a little to break the seal and your set. Might have to sit there and twist back and forth a bit..

[Orian Pax]

2 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Not that realistic as it's dried. I'm thinking of a proper goopy thermal paste between the pins. That's gonna be really annoying to get out, just flooding the place with solvent isn't a good solution to that either.

Yes I am talking about the scenario u said here.

Yes in the end it becomes quite pain in the b*tt compared to beginning.

Old mobo from school.

Except we didn't have compressed air and we were.... Cough.....cough.....14 we had no idea and we didn't have anything better to do.....we cleaned it didn't work then gave to technician he did a very better job than us

and the thing posted/worked and that mobo went to friend's pc. (Well since he managed to get it from teach.)

[Orian Pax]

2 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

As neat as this product is, it does Not change the design of the socket like you are inquiring about. That would come from the motherboard manufacturers based off of AMD's design specs. I imagine money may have something to do with it. The plastic is much cheaper to produce than the metal brackets of LGA and this helps keep consumer costs down. 

 

So no, that add on bracket is not your actual answer, nothing more than a temporary fix to the issue. And not a bad one either I don't think. 

 

Since I delid a lot of processors, most of the time the IHS plate just pops off the die and the plate is stuck to the cooler. I just twist the plate, and it comes right off. 

 

 

Damn now that's scary.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Orian Pax said:

Damn now that's scary.

Not so much really, the cpu will never be ripped from the socket at least XD.

[Orian Pax]

1 minute ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Not so much really, the cpu will never be ripped from the socket at least XD.

Hold on I haven't done typing.

[Orian Pax]

2 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

he's not saying there's no downside, there's downside to both sockets.

I know that's why I said hold on this is not about LGA Vs PGA. It's about improvement.

2 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

It's very difficult to bend just one pin on both platforms,

Wheeze, No not on both, use a brush and pins will trickle down from CPU but on mobo heck u can clean using brush! (Don't forget 99% alcohol tho).

But I have only experience with 6th and above gen mobo (so can't say that for older gen.)

2 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

cpu is much much easier to fix then bending a pin on a motherboard.

Agreed.

 

2 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

I don't see how lga has the advantage, please enlighten me

It seems u didn't read it right

3 hours ago, Orian Pax said:

yes but one can get new mobo i guess u don't know this,
https://pcpartpicker.com/forums/topic/267348-bent-pin-in-cpu-socket-not-covered-by-warranty

 

but just like kakarotto mentioned -
"That's funny because I've returned 2 defective boards to Fry's electronics and when they checked the socket they found nothing. I've swapped out processors hundreds of times for whatever reason and it's very, very difficult to bend 1 pin. It's one of those things where if pins get bent it's at least going to be several, not just one. Some of these motherboard companies take this excuse when a board is returned to them."

(another side note is you can fry your mobo to get a replacement.... yeah.... i got a friend who did it and managed to get new one.... he is a hoarder....)

 

(U can get a free mobo aside from shipping cost if they ever asked you to ship it tho. If a shopowner is gonna ship for ya it then u r in luck!)

I should call him acquaintece than friend tho.

2 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

yes but people can bend the pins back, or buy a new cpu, guess u don't know this. 

From experience it's so, so much easier to bend pins back on a cpu, while being nearly impossible on a motherboard

This one confirms it u didn't read it right/didn't understood it.

2 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

People who know what they're doing rarely have issues, how do you doubt that lmao? it's like driving a car, who's more likely to get in an accident, someone who's been driving for 20+ years with thousands of hours of experience, or someone who is just learning?

Did u read what u quoted with this( )text?

" 

i doubt that but i understood what u were trying to imply.

this pic is a must see!

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H6d7bc1bf84a84716b3f269f5cfc27c4b1.jpg "

 

I got what he wanted to say his feelings reached me but his wording was different.

That wording is below

4 hours ago, Orian Pax said:

Really it's those whom have little to no experience have the most issues

this wording, it's meaning, without or with context has more elements (scenarios) than the one u said

3 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

People who know what they're doing rarely have issues,

Yes that's the one I got what he wanted to say. Except with the word ' less likely to have ' instead 'rarely'  And that's why the

"I understood what u were trying to imply."

 

And I was typing all this 3:30 am in the morning it's 7am now.

 

Extra -

3 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

it's like driving a car, who's more likely to get in an accident, someone who's been driving for 20+ years with thousands of hours of experience, or someone who is just learning?

Depends on their background btw .

[Orian Pax]

2 hours ago, freeagent said:

After spending the last 10 years with Intel, my biggest fear moving back to AMD was those effing pins lol..

Oh.

 

2 hours ago, freeagent said:

Its always that one time that sours your opinion lol.. I've had my cooler off four or five times now on my new AMD setup, and the CPU stayed where I put it.. there is a technique to getting the cooler off while leaving the CPU behind. Push down and twist and rock it just a little to break the seal and your set. Might have to sit there and twist back and forth a bit...

Ouch. I hear that everytime under Reddit posts.....

I am not saying ur technique is wrong or something like that but over past 12 months these sentences u wrote were one of the reasons why people got their CPU ripped out and a reason for many to get their CPUs damaged.

Have u checked my topmost see that spider man one the guy.... yes that guy managed do it even will all the techniques you mentioned.... bcuz of thermal paste.

Now I don't remember the same guy said it in his post or someone else in the comments

5 hours ago, Orian Pax said:

 

"Gotta warm that cpu up before pulling or gotta warm that thermal paste or make your pc thermal shut down,"

i don't like em. while the latching system like lga is much safer granted amd might have to change the shape of their cpu lid.

All of em all of those methodology are temporary.

And I came here to know if anyone knows if anyone has created a mod for it?

(Turns out yes but not what I was expecting it's the same thing, I don't remember where I saw it, but I am darn sure, I saw it before either on ltt forums or Reddit or Tom's hardware before too. But this time.... I got inspired. last time I was just kid with no authority not this time. I just maybe able to mod it as per my need.)

 

And why there's no better latching mechanism PGA to begin with?

 

And seems like no one knows exactly the answer for the second question.

 

One more thing thanks for mentioning those techniques now I can "un-bookmark"

Reddit posts.

 

Yosha!

[freeagent]

17 minutes ago, Orian Pax said:

Ouch. I hear that everytime under Reddit posts.....

I am not saying ur technique is wrong or something like that but over past 12 months these sentences u wrote were one of the reasons why people got their CPU ripped out and a reason for many to get their CPUs damaged.

Have u checked my topmost see that spider man one the guy.... yes that guy managed do it even will all the techniques you mentioned.... bcuz of thermal paste.

Now I don't remember the same guy said it in his post or someone else in the comments

Dunno what to say hombre.. I considered myself an AMD noob with this system, its been a lot of fun. Haven't ripped the chip out yet but it could happen. Even though I considered myself a noob, I'm not really a noob. For me the only way to learn is the hard way. Its the best teacher

[Orian Pax]

1 minute ago, freeagent said:

Dunno what to say hombre.. I considered myself an AMD noob with this system, its been a lot of fun. Haven't ripped the chip out yet but it could happen. Even though I considered myself a noob, I'm not really a noob. For me the only way to learn is the hard way. Its the best teacher

Indeed.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Orian Pax said:

 

And seems like no one knows exactly the answer for the second question.

 

I've already answered this twice now.

 

Money. plastic socket cheaper. Re-design costs ect.

Has worked fine for decades, 1% of all people rip cpu out. 

 

#1 posted issue in this forum is, My rig won't run XMP.

#2 my system only gives black screen.

#3 just about everything else 

#4 finally might see a post like this a couple few times a year in the most popular tech forums (here)

 

Lastly, no, it's probably not going to change when AM5 comes around, but you never know.