UPDATE: Confirmed by LG - It's been nice knowing you, Quad DAC - Sources report that LG is leaving the smartphone market

[RoseLuck462]

RIP, too bad because they were quite good.

 

Had the LG V20 and V50, outstanding phones.

[Mr.Meerkat]

12 hours ago, IAmAndre said:

I guess Sony is next in line?

Was about to say how "Sony is in a better position than LG, in a specific way" but then finds out that LG shipped 30 million units in 2020 (leaves them at 9th place). Guess compared to Xperia's 3 million shipments, LG was probably in the better position... On the flip-side, revenue wise, Sony hit approx $3~ billion for their mobile division, which isn't that far off when compared to LG's $4.5 billion on their mobile arm (10x more units but only 1.5x the revenue). 

 

At least Sony was forecasting a profit for 2020 with their mobile division so maybe not all is lost for Sony! 

[captain_to_fire]

20 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

BAD software support, yeah...

Reminds me of the LG G3 I’ve owned before 

• muted and washed out color gamut 
• laser autofocus that works half the time 
• knock code that is frequently triggered when placed in pant pockets 
• easily overheats and throttles thanks to the 1440p display that the Snapdragon 801 has trouble powering.
• Eternal boot loops after a year and a half of normal use. The good side that it was a battery issue which is user replaceable. 

[Doobeedoo]

I mean they didn't really show competition for a while so.

Also I just wish we get longer Android updates with flagships though.

[IAmAndre]

3 hours ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

Was about to say how "Sony is in a better position than LG, in a specific way" but then finds out that LG shipped 30 million units in 2020 (leaves them at 9th place). Guess compared to Xperia's 3 million shipments, LG was probably in the better position... On the flip-side, revenue wise, Sony hit approx $3~ billion for their mobile division, which isn't that far off when compared to LG's $4.5 billion on their mobile arm (10x more units but only 1.5x the revenue). 

 

At least Sony was forecasting a profit for 2020 with their mobile division so maybe not all is lost for Sony! 

Could be that Sony isn't trying to make money out of their smartphone division. They know they are very niche category so they see their phones more as "proof of concepts."

[kakik09]

Ah the kings of Android, where are they now?: 

Samsung - Still kicking somehow

LG - exiting

HTC - Releasing 2018-era mid-range phones (wherever they still sell them anyway)

Google - as directionless as ever

Huawei - nerfed by politics

Sony - has the right ingredients but still can't put together a stand-out smartphone

 

 

 

[Blademaster91]

Its too bad, sad to see them gone because they were one of the few options if you wanted a 3.5mm jack. I've heard the G8X was a decent phone, but overpriced compared to other OEM's. IMO the dual screen was a nice feature, sure not as flashy as a folding phone but folding screens are too fragile.

LG could've been more successful if they had a better software update cycle, or even put more effort into some mid range phones. I think they could've been strong competition if they put their quad DAC into a midrange phone.

[Brooksie359]

23 hours ago, dizmo said:

Eh, no real loss. They've had some good phones over the past few years but it in no way makes up for the loads of mediocre devices they've launched. Not only that, their marketing strategy was almost non-existent. If you don't get phones out there into the hands of reviewers these days, it's real hard to gain any traction. Even MrWhosTheBoss pointed out how hard it was to get review units from them.

 

There's a reason Samsung is so popular. And that reason is marketing.

 

The V60 was pretty solid. It just didn't get nearly the amount of marketing it needed to be successful.

It'd be an excellent purchase. I can't wait to refresh mine.

To be fair it wasn't just marketing that made Samsung so popular. When the smartphones were fairly new Samsung consistently had one of the best smartphones you could get. Alot of people started using them because they had really good smartphones and then at some point they sorta continued that brand loyalty with decent smartphones and alot of marketing. Once you have a certain market share you get to the point where that is marketing. I mean I know less techy people who think that there is only Samsung and Apple that make smartphones. 

[D13H4RD]

2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

To be fair it wasn't just marketing that made Samsung so popular. When the smartphones were fairly new Samsung consistently had one of the best smartphones you could get. Alot of people started using them because they had really good smartphones and then at some point they sorta continued that brand loyalty with decent smartphones and alot of marketing. Once you have a certain market share you get to the point where that is marketing. I mean I know less techy people who think that there is only Samsung and Apple that make smartphones. 

Eh, I think that part's debatable.

 

Before the Galaxy S6 (and especially the S7), Samsung phones were decent, but nowhere near the best. They didn't really feel great in the hand (the hyperglaze plastic era especially as they felt cheap and chintzy) with the exception of the black-colored Note 3, S5 and Note 4 and their software was all kinds of questionable both in terms of aesthetics and performance, not to mention the bloatware. I've always felt competitors like HTC offered something more compelling in that era.

 

What made the whole thing work for Samsung wasn't just their massive resources and effective marketing strategy (The Next Big Thing and those ads mocking the iPhone) alongside them just being able to flood the damn market with a crap-ton of Galaxy phones.

 

Particularly after the S5 and its comparatively weak sales performance in the context of the Galaxy line, Samsung started to change direction for its entire Galaxy line, and despite the outcry from phone nerds, it's in a much better place now.

 

You really need effective marketing to survive in the current smartphone market, as many don't really have the same amount of brand recognition and loyalty a company like Apple has, and don't forget how long it took Apple to get to that level.

[realpetertdm]

It's official now, LG is exiting the smartphone market. They just announced it at a board meeting. 

 

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20210405001600320

 

Quote

 _{LG Electronics Inc. said Monday it will withdraw from the mobile business after years of money-losing performance amid intensifying competition with bigger rivals.}

_{The South Korean tech powerhouse said in a regulatory filing that its mobile communications (MC) unit will no longer produce and sell handsets, citing its long slump and fierce competition in the industry.}

 

[CommanderAlex]

On 4/3/2021 at 1:54 PM, flibberdipper said:

Good riddance. The last good phone they made in my eyes was the V20, everything since then (especially when it comes to anything that wasn't a flagship) has just been hot fucking garbage.

That was a great phone, although the battery in mine started to lose it's charge and the IPS screen was suffering from this ghosting effect if an app or image was open too long, although it would take a minute or two to go away. Software updates took forever to release from LG, which is why I'd never go back to LG smartphones and I'm happy to see them leave the market (hopefully with new companies enter).  

[Kisai]

12 hours ago, kakik09 said:

Ah the kings of Android, where are they now?: 

Samsung - Still kicking somehow

LG - exiting

HTC - Releasing 2018-era mid-range phones (wherever they still sell them anyway)

Google - as directionless as ever

Huawei - nerfed by politics

Sony - has the right ingredients but still can't put together a stand-out smartphone

 

 

 

All Android devices are terrible, and will never tick all the boxes needed to replace iOS phones. Android as a mobile OS needs to die first and be replaced with something that is easier to develop for and only has to deal with one or two phone profiles, not the current mess of variable performance, cpu, gpu and screen sizes that make it impossible to tune for. The irony is that the Nintendo Switch might actually be the best non-Android OS running on Android-capable hardware. Too bad Nintendo is always too inept to see a business opportunity and is content with selling game-only systems rather than turning the switch into a mobile entertainment device.

 

[Rauten]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Android as a mobile OS needs to die first and be replaced with something that is easier to develop for and only has to deal with one or two phone profiles, not the current mess of variable performance, cpu, gpu and screen sizes that make it impossible to tune for.

Please keep in mind I know absolutely nothing about app development but, wouldn't that affect PC development as well?

 

Also, I'd argue that the "mess" of variables is part of what may attract some people to an Android phone - you can, in a certain way, "pick and choose" the specs that suit your needs/wants.

[Brooksie359]

8 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

Eh, I think that part's debatable.

 

Before the Galaxy S6 (and especially the S7), Samsung phones were decent, but nowhere near the best. They didn't really feel great in the hand (the hyperglaze plastic era especially as they felt cheap and chintzy) with the exception of the black-colored Note 3, S5 and Note 4 and their software was all kinds of questionable both in terms of aesthetics and performance, not to mention the bloatware. I've always felt competitors like HTC offered something more compelling in that era.

 

What made the whole thing work for Samsung wasn't just their massive resources and effective marketing strategy (The Next Big Thing and those ads mocking the iPhone) alongside them just being able to flood the damn market with a crap-ton of Galaxy phones.

 

Particularly after the S5 and its comparatively weak sales performance in the context of the Galaxy line, Samsung started to change direction for its entire Galaxy line, and despite the outcry from phone nerds, it's in a much better place now.

 

You really need effective marketing to survive in the current smartphone market, as many don't really have the same amount of brand recognition and loyalty a company like Apple has, and don't forget how long it took Apple to get to that level.

I guess we will simply have to disagree then. My S4 lasted me all 4 years of college no problem and was a solid phone. Most of the Android phones my friends got around the same time that weren't Samsung were generally bad tbh. 

[Monkey Dust]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

All Android devices are terrible, and will never tick all the boxes needed to replace iOS phones. Android as a mobile OS needs to die first and be replaced with something that is easier to develop for and only has to deal with one or two phone profiles, not the current mess of variable performance, cpu, gpu and screen sizes that make it impossible to tune for. The irony is that the Nintendo Switch might actually be the best non-Android OS running on Android-capable hardware. Too bad Nintendo is always too inept to see a business opportunity and is content with selling game-only systems rather than turning the switch into a mobile entertainment device.

 

The biggest problem with Android, IMO, is that it's a very fragmented ecosystem. Some phones get upgraded to the latest version of Android, some just get updates for the previous version, and plenty don't get the security updates for anywhere near as long as they should do. If Google implemented a compulsory 5-year support, including upgrade to new versions of Android, for all phones, to match Apple, they'd be a much better option.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, Rauten said:

Please keep in mind I know absolutely nothing about app development but, wouldn't that affect PC development as well?

 

Also, I'd argue that the "mess" of variables is part of what may attract some people to an Android phone - you can, in a certain way, "pick and choose" the specs that suit your needs/wants.

 

The difference is quite profound. The difference between the worst Android phone and the best Android phone can literately be worst than the spread between a celeron and a i9.

https://www.androidbenchmark.net/passmark_chart.html

 

The local wireless carriers carry the following devices:

Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G

Samsung Galaxy S21+ 5G

Samsung Galaxy S21 5G

(18364) iPhone 12 Pro Max

(17480) iPhone 12 mini

(17779) iPhone 12 Pro

(17855) iPhone 12

(13004) iPhone 11

(13536) Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G

(13120) Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G

(11033) iPhone XR

(13291) Samsung Galaxy Note20 Ultra 5G

( 7158) Google Pixel 4a (5G)

( 7277) Google Pixel 5

Samsung Galaxy Z Flip 5G

(12851) iPhone SE

(12878*)LG Velvet 5G

( 7412) Samsung Galaxy A71

( 7133) Samsung Galaxy A51

(12880) Samsung Galaxy Z Fold2 5G

( 4486) moto g stylus

( 4523) moto g fast

(  826)Samsung Galaxy A11

( 338) moto e

Sonim XP8

Sonim XP5S

 

The number to the left is the passmark number. Anything without a number, wasn't listed. * the LG phone is the V60 which shares the same hardware, but otherwise I couldn't find it in the list either.

 

Note that spread from the moto e to the Samsung devices is nearly 40 times (2.5% of the samsung Sg20 Ultra G5). By comparison the weakest iOS device is still 70% of the top-end model.

 

Now in the moto's defense, it's probably being sold as a feature phone and not a smartphone, but it still runs Android.

 

The spread for the Apple A14 and A12x is 26% single threading. A14 vs A13 is 40%. (which is the iPhone 11)

Samsung's S21 with the SM8350 and S20 SM8250 is -13% (therefor the S21 is slower by benchmark)

The Moto is only 35% the single threading performance of the S21.

 

Now let's use the same scale but include laptops and desktops. The top end i9/Ryzen 9 part is the Ryzen 9 5950X (16 core) at 98935, and the Intel i9-10900K (10 core) at 51,093. The highest end laptop is Core i7-10875H (33818).

 

The lowest end, on dell's website, being sold is the Intel® Pentium® Gold Processor 7505, but that's not in the list, so let's go with the i3-10100 (quad core) which has a passmark of 16119, and for laptops i3-1005G1 (dual core) 8822 .

So the spread between the slowest intel part and the fastest intel part here is 5.7 (17%). Likewise, if you compare only the thread performance, 2289 (i3-1005G1) vs 3168 (i9-10900K) is 72%, or only 1.38 times.

 

So realistically, that "worst" 10th gen laptop cpu is still as better than most 7 year old desktops running i7-4xxx parts at single thread performance. 

 

What did we learn here? Apple's spread is 30% at most, Intel's is 83%, and Androids are 97.5% between the strongest and weakest part. Only when you look at the single-thread performance does it not look as awful. When looking at only the single-thread performance Apple and Intel are closer to 25% where as Android is 65%... 

 

And that assumes that is the correct model device. Which again, going back to your question and my earlier statement about the differences between devices, developers simply don't know what possible chip a "new" phone might have, let alone the screen size, dpi, if it has a keypad, or is a touch screen, etc.

 

If Google isn't going to step up raise the system requirements (and since it's open source, any software locks will be defeated) to have a stable platform, then Android will continue to fragment and play second fiddle to iOS devices.

 

Now, the alternative, especially looking at Samsung's completely meaningless device names, is that some of these phone models get culled. Apple doesn't need a SE and an Ultra Pro model, Neither does Samsung. Just sell the previous device with the current OS. Get rid of all these half-step configurations and flash-storage sizes.

 

 

51 minutes ago, Monkey Dust said:

The biggest problem with Android, IMO, is that it's a very fragmented ecosystem. Some phones get upgraded to the latest version of Android, some just get updates for the previous version, and plenty don't get the security updates for anywhere near as long as they should do. If Google implemented a compulsory 5-year support, including upgrade to new versions of Android, for all phones, to match Apple, they'd be a much better option.

 

Android is fragmented, where as iOS is only fragmented by iPad/iPhone, and even then, not in a terribly awful manner (iphone software will still run on an iPad, just the UI will be the phone screen dimensions.) What this results in is an awful, inconsistent user experience.

 

When phone brands like LG and Motorola can no longer produce devices that are even competitive at the high end, they should just exit the market. Chinese/India-market phones will dominate the low-end, and these are the completely disposable after 18 months devices, get in those markets they're considered fairly high end, where as iOS and Samsung devices are completely priced out of the market.

 

It's too bad that we can't choose what to install on these devices. Sure, you can work-around Android phones, but you can't really do anything with a two year old Android phone. If all the Android choices were reduced to just two models per brand, with user-installable storage and batteries, we'd be in a better place, but that's just not where the market is going.

 

I'm just surprised LG didn't just sell their mobile phone business to Samsung since they're both Korean brands, and that would free up chip production capacity that would otherwise have gone into the LG equipment.

 

[Donut417]

So who’s going to exit next? Sony? Lenovo? Or is Google going to kill off the pixel devices? 
 

 

 

[Commodus]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

So who’s going to exit next? Sony? Lenovo? Or is Google going to kill off the pixel devices? 
 

 

 

I don't see them bowing out. Sony appears to have a fairly successful if modest business. Lenovo has Motorola, and that's doing well enough. Google reinvigorated itself to a degree with the Pixel 4a/4a 5G/5, and might just raise some eyebrows if the Pixel 6 really does have a custom CPU.

[Commodus]

19 hours ago, kakik09 said:

Ah the kings of Android, where are they now?: 

Samsung - Still kicking somehow

LG - exiting

HTC - Releasing 2018-era mid-range phones (wherever they still sell them anyway)

Google - as directionless as ever

Huawei - nerfed by politics

Sony - has the right ingredients but still can't put together a stand-out smartphone

Keep in mind that there are new rulers! Samsung is still high up, but most of the big Android brands are Chinese vendors like Oppo and Xiaomi. It's more like a changing of the guard where the companies that couldn't hack it (or have been forced out, like Huawei) are making way for a newer generation.

[poochyena]

This is unfortunate. I thought they were a solid competitor. They had a 10% market share in NA, so that will be a noticable loss in competition. I absolutely love my LG G6, i think its just perfect.

[Justmoe]

Quad DAC has been picked up by Asus. Is in the new ROG phone 5. Waiting to see if they use in the Zenphone 8.

[Donut417]

5 hours ago, poochyena said:

This is unfortunate. I thought they were a solid competitor. They had a 10% market share in NA, so that will be a noticable loss in competition. I absolutely love my LG G6, i think its just perfect.

I had an LGG3 and I probably used it for about 3 years. Its probably the longest I have used a single Android phone. I liked it for the most part. The reason I stopped using it was due to software issues. To me LG's issue is that they really didnt compete at the high end. They never really pushed their phones. And the large phone carriers at least in the US always seem to push Samsung (High end and low end) or Apple. I think part of the issue is we had too many Android device makers, that drove down the prices. They really couldn't make a profit, especially at the lower end. Then you have up and coming brands like OnePlus who is legit doing some cool things,  the Oneplus 3T was a great value for the price, it was the first phone that I had with a Finger Print reader and it was relatively affordable. 

 

The biggest issue with Android however its the lack of long term support. I ended up with an iPhone XR and really dont feel the need to upgrade. Ive probably had the phone a little over 2 years at this point, and it still does what I need it to do. My goal is to ride it out till Apple stops supporting it or until the battery gives up the ghost. Most Android devices your lucky to get 3 years worth a updates. Considering Samsung devices cost as much as Apple devices, you can see how an iPhone might seem like a better value. On the lower end and cheap POS Android device is probably not going to survive more than 3 years, so you really dont care about long term support. 

[D13H4RD]

So apparently, some phones will get "up to 3 iterations of the Android OS upgrade from the year of purchase"

 

http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2021/04/lg-announces-three-year-pledge-for-os-updates/

[Dabombinable]

5 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

So apparently, some phones will get "up to 3 iterations of the Android OS upgrade from the year of purchase"

 

http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2021/04/lg-announces-three-year-pledge-for-os-updates/

I hope it is 2 updates after the announcement...because the update to Android 10 on my phone was a while ago.