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YouTube to try not publicly displaying the number of dislikes on a video

5 minutes ago, willies leg said:

I always wonder if the numbers they show are the true numbers. After all, it's just an algorithm, they can put whatever numbers they want. There's no "official" auditor of those kinds of things on all platforms.

This is a perennial problem with anything electronic that purports to be random as well.  Indicators can be falsified and therefore are difficult to trust

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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2 hours ago, Kisai said:
Spoiler

 

I disagree, and anyone who produces animation or long-form content sees it as a good idea. Why the heck would you spend months on something, only for it to get bridaded into the ground because you're a popular punching bag because of "that one thing"
 

No, they aren't. They just realize that wokeness sells better than playing it completely safe.

That's political. Disliking the white house content is actively political, and nobody should ever give a care about official government media likes. As for China, it's pretty clear why a film has been scrubbed to appease China, because they want to actively sell it in China, and if they don't kiss the ring, it will never get in. You're free to not watch those films.

 

It happens, it happens at any scale and happens as a way to kick youtubers in the teeth. A corporation can weather it, individuals can not.

 

No, it's only useful if dislike brigading isn't a thing, and advertisement algorithm tuning isn't a thing.

 

For example, the youtube rewind video, was never recommended to me, I had to actually go find it. But it happens to be the video on the top if searched directly for it.

image.png.f16b28de4b2b776d49186f3ef0b97fa6.png

 

image.thumb.png.c2d0b5a032dc0b6767f09ca8ace689da.png

You can't tell me that it wasn't dislike brigaded, when it was viewed twice as much as 2014, and 2014's was around for 4 more years.

 

image.thumb.png.b8257ba26f8ae565972e36032dd5cb53.png

There are literately more likes on the 2018 video than there any likes at all on the 2014 video.

 

Then there is the 2017 video which was also brigaded.

image.thumb.png.4a0fa22f7bd9d3fe8adbe20574b097db.png

 

 

https://www.polygon.com/2019/12/6/20998648/2019-youtube-rewind-dislikes-2018

Right, so how was this communicated?

image.png.3045d55d75413399c6c3c34c0e53ba45.png

 

If you look at comments just from the last 2 days, you see it's still actively being dislike brigaded.

 

 

 

 

image.png.192de525e08e307e0ab0ba8f6f99a6b8.png

 

Youtube tends to have this problem of kowtowing to legal reasons (eg coppa and dmca) while doing absolutely nothing to prevent the same tools being weaponized by trolls on the internet. If they can't moderate their platform... they remove the comments. If they can't stop dislike brigading, they will remove the dislike button.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, willies leg said:

I always wonder if the numbers they show are the true numbers. After all, it's just an algorithm, they can put whatever numbers they want. There's no "official" auditor of those kinds of things on all platforms.

Not always. I think it was the Gangnam style video did something strange originally, like a personalized greeting in the description. It doesn't do it any more though.

image.thumb.png.724faa7fae78b5b2cede3dee06dc0da6.png

Oddly enough Korean music groups have been the only ones to actually embrace Youtube for their distribution.

 

image.thumb.png.35262799ee3a7112f570b618f4171be7.png

 

Only half their subs have liked the video.

 

Now go back to the dislike brigaded YT rewind 2018 and notice how the dislikes are equal to about 60% of it's subs.

 

Take note, the population of Korea is 51.7m. So there are more subs than there are residents of Korea, so it's not logical every second resident of Korea likes the BTS video either. So clearly those come from outside Korea. You know what BTS is also known for? It's fans. If all of them were on youtube there's no reason why the video shouldn't easily have 40 million likes.

 

In my opinion, Youtube almost certainly has some dislike-brigading/false-engagement prevention feature already in place for high value, brand-safe, channels. You can still dislike such videos, but they may delay the display until the release window closes so it doesn't gain media attention for being heavily disliked. 

 

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That clears things up why you think removing dislikes is a good thing Kisai, following the Dan Olsen line of thought. But consider this: dislikes aren't a measure of of the quality of a video, but rather how controversial something is, and YouTube comments are a worse form of feedback than a dislike. By looking at the most disliked videos by percentage, you can see that they mostly revolve around social or political subjects that generate some form of controversy. Since almost every video on YouTube has a >90% like/dislike ratio, the most relevant (controversial) videos on YouTube are those with a ratio below that. Since the percentage would still be visible to creators, I only see this as a net loss to viewers.

 

Secondly, I can scarce think of anyone who would rather read a comment on a YouTube video than look at the like/dislike ratio for proper feedback, (comment sections are the first thing to go if brigaded for a reason)

 

 

I think this video presents a good argument against a Facebook or Twitter style approach to likes on YouTube

 

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1 hour ago, Artikfal said:
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That clears things up why you think removing dislikes is a good thing Kisai, following the Dan Olsen line of thought. But consider this: dislikes aren't a measure of of the quality of a video, but rather how controversial something is, and YouTube comments are a worse form of feedback than a dislike. 

The youtuber has control over the comments and can delete or moderate them. They do not have control over the likes other than to hide them ALL completely.

 

Maybe the like/dislike feature and commenting needs to only be available after watching 75% of the video. That would put a damper on brigading the video, yet a better option is to just remove the dislike ability in the first place so that the "ratio" then becomes the views to likes instead. If you have 1m views, but 1000 likes... you've done something wrong.

 

There are also people like myself, who never use the like feature either, because I've always viewed it as a social bookmark, a way to come back and look at things. Like how it works on spotify.

 

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23 hours ago, Kisai said:

I disagree, and anyone who produces animation or long-form content sees it as a good idea. Why the heck would you spend months on something, only for it to get bridaded into the ground because you're a popular punching bag because of "that one thing"
 

No, they aren't. They just realize that wokeness sells better than playing it completely safe.

That's political. Disliking the white house content is actively political, and nobody should ever give a care about official government media likes. As for China, it's pretty clear why a film has been scrubbed to appease China, because they want to actively sell it in China, and if they don't kiss the ring, it will never get in. You're free to not watch those films.

 

It happens, it happens at any scale and happens as a way to kick youtubers in the teeth. A corporation can weather it, individuals can not.

 

No, it's only useful if dislike brigading isn't a thing, and advertisement algorithm tuning isn't a thing.

 

For example, the youtube rewind video, was never recommended to me, I had to actually go find it. But it happens to be the video on the top if searched directly for it.

 

If you look at comments just from the last 2 days, you see it's still actively being dislike brigaded.

 

image.png.192de525e08e307e0ab0ba8f6f99a6b8.png

 

Youtube tends to have this problem of kowtowing to legal reasons (eg coppa and dmca) while doing absolutely nothing to prevent the same tools being weaponized by trolls on the internet. If they can't moderate their platform... they remove the comments. If they can't stop dislike brigading, they will remove the dislike button.

 

 

 

Firstly, love that you use the whole "woke twitter post" in your argument : )

 

Quote

It happens, it happens at any scale and happens as a way to kick youtubers in the teeth. A corporation can weather it, individuals can not.

Okay, so why did you use Youtube rewind as your example? That literally proves nothing.

Quote

No, they aren't. They just realize that wokeness sells better than playing it completely safe.

That's political. Disliking the white house content is actively political, and nobody should ever give a care about official government media likes. As for China, it's pretty clear why a film has been scrubbed to appease China, because they want to actively sell it in China, and if they don't kiss the ring, it will never get in. You're free to not watch those films.

I can actively feel my brain melting after this. "Nobody should give a care about what official government media likes" What??? It's the damn government, I have a vested interest as a citizen in what they support. I have to hold them accountable! I need to hold them accountable if they are spreading "propaganda" (for lack of a better word), or they are engaging in new policies that I do not agree with. If they say that this current president is doing an amazing job and that everyone likes him, and people don't agree with it, they need to make that known. The source of power comes from the people, not the government.

Quote

No, it's only useful if dislike brigading isn't a thing, and advertisement algorithm tuning isn't a thing.

So you'd get rid of the option share your opinion because some people also use it? What?

 

People need the option to express their views, even on YouTube

 

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"Thanks bro, my inner grammarian just had a stroke."

-Yours truly, EjectedCasings

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1 minute ago, FakeATF said:

Firstly, love that you use the whole "woke twitter post" in your argument : )

Sometimes the most concise thing was already said. You say that like Woke is bad or something.

 

1 minute ago, FakeATF said:

 

I can actively feel my brain melting after this. "Nobody should give a care about what official government media likes" What??? It's the damn government, I have a vested interest as a citizen in what they support. I have to hold them accountable! I need to hold them if they are spreading "propaganda" (for lack of a better word). If they say that this current president is doing an amazing job and that everyone likes him, and people don't agree with it, they need to make that known. The source of power comes from the people, not the government.

 

Nobody cares about government propaganda, likes or dislikes on it mean nothing to the government, it's just another avenue for information already released to the press. The government seriously does not care if you like it's videos or not, and youtube has no incentive to monetize or increase visibility of it. It's more likely the government puts videos on youtube as a point of accessibility, not to monetize it like most other content.

 

That's something people readily forget, is that government media produced by federal workers in the US is copyright-free unless assigned a copyright. So things put out by the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branch are not incentivized to put things on youtube themselves, when a third party (eg CSPAN) already has the access to do so.

 

https://www.c-span.org/about/copyrightsAndLicensing/

Quote

Video coverage of the debates originating from the chambers of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate is in the public domain and as such, may be used without restriction or attribution.

 

Which again, that is about access. Nobody gives a care if they are liked or not. The amount of people interested in government media is pretty low, and unless some event happens (eg Jan 6 2021) to the government, generally existing news media will have information on their own channels long before the government responds.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Kisai said:

Sometimes the most concise thing was already said. You say that like Woke is bad or something.

 

Nobody cares about government propaganda, likes or dislikes on it mean nothing to the government, it's just another avenue for information already released to the press. The government seriously does not care if you like it's videos or not, and youtube has no incentive to monetize or increase visibility of it. It's more likely the government puts videos on youtube as a point of accessibility, not to monetize it like most other content.

 

That's something people readily forget, is that government media produced by federal workers in the US is copyright-free unless assigned a copyright. So things put out by the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branch are not incentivized to put things on youtube themselves, when a third party (eg CSPAN) already has the access to do so.

 

https://www.c-span.org/about/copyrightsAndLicensing/

 

Which again, that is about access. Nobody gives a care if they are liked or not. The amount of people interested in government media is pretty low, and unless some event happens (eg Jan 6 2021) to the government, generally existing news media will have information on their own channels long before the government responds.

 

 

Here is what you said:

Quote

Disliking the white house content is actively political, and nobody should ever give a care about official government media likes.

Media, not social media.

 

Given your response though, I assume that you meant social media.

 

Given that Social Media is something that many people use to get easy, quick to absorb information, many people will see something that someone puts out. This includes the Federal government. Just because it's not a "formal" news site or communique, doesn't mean anything that the public says is to be ignored. Granted, I agree that the government doesn't really use its social media as an avenue of communication, nor do I really think that they should. However, my point was about Government media in general, so it's a moot point.

 

 

Quote

Sometimes the most concise thing was already said. You say that like Woke is bad or something.

Yes, I do say that like woke is bad, because the vast majority of "woke stuff" I see, I don't agree with. I like how people think that you have to agree with "wokeness", and if you don't you're some kind of far right, political extremist.

 

I'll stop though, because i'm definitely treading the line when it comes to politics on the forums, and I would not be surprised if this section gets removed.

 

"As I, a humble internet browser who frequents the forum of the well known internet tech YouTuber 'Linus Tech Tips', named after host Linus Sebastian, have trouble understanding the intent of the authors' post, I find solace in the fact, that I am indeed not alone in my confusion. While I stumble through the comments above, I am reminded of a quote which helps me to cut through ambiguous and unnecessary verbiage. The simple eloquence of the phrase often uttered on internet forums leaves any reading it in no doubt as to the true intent of the wording. I believe that I, and indeed all of us can take a lesson from the message left by it:"

 

(Formerly known as @EjectedCasings)

"Thanks bro, my inner grammarian just had a stroke."

-Yours truly, EjectedCasings

___________________________________________

"It's stupid, but it works"

"AAAAAAHHH WHY AM I SPEEENING!"

 

 Enthusiast web surfer, 'epic' gamer.

#muricaparrotgang

 

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22 minutes ago, FakeATF said:

 

Yes, I do say that like woke is bad, because the vast majority of "woke stuff" I see, I don't agree with. I like how people think that you have to agree with "wokeness", and if you don't you're some kind of far right, political extremist.

 

I'll stop though, because i'm definitely treading the line when it comes to politics on the forums, and I would not be surprised if this section gets removed.

Woke isn't bad, woke is typically correct, to be otherwise is to agree with oppressive hateful forces. What's bad is performative wokeness, which is what happens when Disney or Coca-cola do things in reaction to an event, but it's still business as usual. eg Coca Cola in Georgia. None of these brands seriously stick their neck out or they would put be withdrawing their entire business from the "issue". I do not see Coca-cola moving it's entire business out states any more than I see Disney ever abandoning the Chinese market. There is too much money to be made to take a political stand, so at best you get woke platitudes from their social media platforms, but the company has done exactly nothing.

 

Maybe I will give a care about what Coca Cola or Disney say on social media if they actually put their business on the line, but they won't. We all know they won't. All they've done is belatedly try to take a stand via PR. That costs them nothing but maybe a few politicians banning coke products from their offices.

 

Which, going back to youtube and dislikes... disliking their existing commercials on youtube... wow, that will sure show them /s

 

Dislike brigading does nothing to a corporate brand, like I've said already. They care about their PR, but corporations have no feelings to hurt.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ran into this graphic:

Not sure in what way it applies but it seemed germaine

 

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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10 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Ran into this graphic:

Not sure in what way it applies but it seemed germaine

 

 

Seems to illustrate just how fast and hard something gets dislike brigaded, but also note how seemingly a lot of it was bot traffic because two of the videos completely stopped getting dislikes at some point which tells me either they turned off likes, or privated the video at that point.

 

Anyway, I thought it might interest y'all what the dislike switch looks like:

image.thumb.png.aafb1ffdf27ab02e6237736f122cbf7a.png

This was the default on this channel. At a point in time, this used to be something that had to be manually unselected.

 

 

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