Corsair RMx (2021)

[IIIIIIIIII]

24 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

Come on guys... Just look at the difference.

 

 

 

Also, exhaust is more important than intake.  A lot of intake means NADA if you can't exhaust the heat out:

 

Internally, the new RMx is no different than the old RMx except the new one supports the burst mode required to achieve 70% efficiency as low as 2% load.  The change is the ID and the fan and that's it.

I miss the old design

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

@jonnyGURU But what is the reason for the louder fan curve and is this fixeable in the near Future with a new revision?

[Guest]

10 hours ago, RAZ0RLIGHT said:

@jonnyGURU But what is the reason for the louder fan curve and is this fixeable in the near Future with a new revision?

 

ONE LAST TIME:

 

1. The fan blade design of the Sunon fan is not as efficient as the Hong Hua fan blades.

2. The triangles create a restriction that requires more air flow to push the heat out of the PSU.

 

If you reduce the fan RPM, the components in the PSU will get too hot.

 

Only the 850W is getting a corrected fan curve because there's enough thermal margin there.

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

And how will the corrected fan curve be like in comparison to the older 2018 RMx unit?

If it is quiet enough everything would be alright, was aiming for 750/850w anyway.

Kinda unbelieveable, that the fan blade design + those triangles make such a huge difference, thats why asked again.

Thanks for the clarification and i hope, the next PSU refresh won't suffer from the looks over function syndrome

[MashedPotatoes]

If you could spare a minute to help an ignoramus out in understanding how PSUs work, because after reading the reviews I'm thinking I should go with the 2018 version. I signed up to ask this specifically.

 

I'm doing a build with a Fractal case that I want to be fairly silent for various reasons. My current PC is loud by my standards, I measured the noise coming from 30 cm/1 ft at the side of it and it's hovering around 50 decibels normally, 60 as gets hotter - take out 5 to adjust it to the ears' position (1 meter direct distance, under the desk, to my right). I don't want this to repeat, so I set out on trying to understand the best PSU for my budget and I ended up with this Corsair... now "these Corsairs".

 

All I can say about the 2018 RM750x data is that it's a very quiet gold PSU, with good curves and reasonable temp/noise ceilings. Meanwhile, I understand this new 2021 curve would only benefit when I'm working with stuff that is just CPU intensive, because when I'm doing anything graphics-related it should be noticeably noisy due to the GPU properly kicking in and drawing power.

 

So I guess my question evolved from "should I go for the 2021 or the 2018 model" to "why should the 2021 model be better"? The revision just seems to look sexier - for a component you can't see, mind you - and be slightly more performing for a few bucks less, but it's far louder and hotter. Am I missing something good in this 2021 version, that will help it last longer or something? Are maglev fans a really big deal I mustn't miss on?

[Juular]

47 minutes ago, MashedPotatoes said:

Am I missing something good in this 2021 version, that will help it last longer or something? Are maglev fans a really big deal I mustn't miss on?

Not really, it's all about the new fan and a higher low-load efficiency (with a side of coil whine at that), and since hard data, at least by Aris tells us that it's somehow louder than RM-x 2018 despite having on paper, better fan, it's hard to recommend it over 2018 version.

[thievesarmy]

I've got one of these coming from BB although I'm not sure which version I'm getting. The website shows the older version (1000w) but maybe they just didn't update the photos on the listing.

 

I'm wondering though, between this and a Focus GX-1000, which would you go for? I guess that goes for each revision of the Corsair too. The tier list shows the 2021 as A+ tier and I imagine the guys that put that together know WAY more about this stuff than I ever could. 

[MashedPotatoes]

6 hours ago, Juular said:

Not really, it's all about the new fan and a higher low-load efficiency (with a side of coil whine at that), and since hard data, at least by Aris tells us that it's somehow louder than RM-x 2018 despite having on paper, better fan, it's hard to recommend it over 2018 version.

I know it's data by just one person, but it seems pretty damning to me. I also watched a stress test on YT right now (Falco75) and yes, it's louder AF at higher loads.

 

I can also understand why it's hard to recommend, and with my need for silence, you have the case there. Gotta join who else was sad they have to skip on a technically superior version. Thinking about it: sure, ML fans are cool, but I doubt that rifle bearings are bad and that I will spend all my life on the PC before the heat kicks in to take advantage of those curves... hell, the warranty's 10 years on both, and there's so many other reasons your PSU could fail anyways. Unfortunately the noise really makes everything else a moot point for me, the 2018 rev seems to be good enough.

 

I guess it's goodbye Japanese maglev trains and Deus Ex triangle meshes, because I'm most likely going with pre-pandemic Corsair.

[Juular]

40 minutes ago, thievesarmy said:

I'm wondering though, between this and a Focus GX-1000, which would you go for?

Considering that Focus Gold isn't particularly quiet either i'd say it's a draw, but 2018 version is still quieter and it's not discontinued so why just not buy it.

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

The burst mode introduces cool whine on the PSU side as well? meh! 

 

@MashedPotatoes

If you only care for silence if the CPU is loaded, the 750w 2021 RMx should be silent since the CPU won't need over 500-600w.

Still sad, that the fan curve is so much worse because of the new design and the new/better fan.

[Quartz11]

Does anyone here own one of the 2021 units in their build?  Measured dB is a bit of an arbitrary number for practical purposes, because in an actual system lots of other factors will need to be considered for the audible noise profile.  Things like the case quality, material, dampening, PSU location within the case, other components, ambient temperature, temperature within the case, typical load levels, etc.  Also the frequency profile of the fan noise is super important: is it a quiet rush of air, is there low hum, are there any audible tonal components? It’s entirely possible your quiet case and CPU fans will be equal to the PSU’s, and you’ll never hear your PSU over them.  Presumably most people have case, CPU, and GPU fans turn up at load and becoming more noticeable too—not only the PSU fan ramps up. 

 

 All I see here is theoretical disappointment because the “numbers” are slightly higher, but it might be for naught in practice.

[Quartz11]

Here's an interesting in-depth review of an RM650x 2021 (and a parallel review of an XPG Core Reactor 650W):

https://www.computerbase.de/2021-05/650-watt-netzteile-test-corsair-rm650x-xpg-core-reactor-650w/4/

 

That page discusses some sound testing that goes beyond most other reviews I've seen.  Very low fan RPM until loads 75%+.  The top graph can show more curves--click on the colored squares to add other PSU curves to the graph.

 

"Thanks to the semi-passive operation of the Corsair RM650x, the fan remains switched off up to a load of around 290 W. The power supply works almost silently up to this load. For load 2, a deflection in the sound pressure level frequency spectrum can be measured just below 20 kilohertz, which the human hearing cannot or only very slightly can detect."

 

"With load 3, an extremely low speed of 365 RPM can be measured for the RM650x. This means that the power supply unit remains significantly quieter than the RM650 , which lets its fan rotate at a minimum speed of 765 RPM and thus generates a sound pressure level that is almost 3 dB higher. The fan bearing does not work completely without background noises, however, as a quiet, grinding-like noise can be heard when listening directly. In the sound recording, however, it almost completely disappears in the noise of the microphone amplifier, since the sound power recorded by the microphone 50 cm away is negligible."

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

There is just one issue, the 650w RMx 2021 has 20db noise output on average, according to Cybenetics which is a great result, but everything with more W is also alot louder while the previous 2018 versions with 750/850W aren't.

Now, why is the 650W version only a little bit louder, while the higher wattage ones are significantly louder while using the exact same PSU case/shroud and fan which are responsible for the louder fan curve?

 

It is not that the new 2021 models are bad or super loud but it is dissapointing to see that they are worse than their predecessor in this category at least the higher wattage models.

 

I once had a really loud Antec gold PSU and since then i kinda have a trauma lol.

 

ps. watched that italien review from Falco75 on YouTube but didn't understand anything.

However i don't think at 100% load that it was particurarly loud, BUT we don't know the ambient temp, it wasn't installed  in a case (higher temps) and the guy was pretty much alwaya talking.

 

[electropical]

15 hours ago, Quartz11 said:

 All I see here is theoretical disappointment because the “numbers” are slightly higher, but it might be for naught in practice.

I agree with you that there's some overreacting going on, but one can rightfully be disappointed by the poor decision-making going on with the aforementioned company.

When the head of R&D is firmly opposing counterproductive changes only to be told to go kick rocks, frustration is to be expected.
The 2018 RMx wasn't just the best bang-for-the-buck PSU out there, it almost was an irreproachable unit : high-end performance, highly durable, compact, good pricing and ultra-quiet. Yes, the in-line caps are a pain, but you can resleeve the cables individually and get rid of the caps, and one can live without multirail OCP.

The RMx lineup was super popular because of how outstandingly quiet it was, it basically was the gold standard for ≤1000w units.
By taking away that quietness for no good reason, they basically took away a unique option at that price range, hence the complaints.
Now*, if you want a similarly quiet unit, you have to go for much higher wattages, and that ain't cheap.

*the 2018 version still is in production

[Quartz11]

 

6 hours ago, RAZ0RLIGHT said:

There is just one issue, the 650w RMx 2021 has 20db noise output on average, according to Cybenetics which is a great result, but everything with more W is also alot louder while the previous 2018 versions with 750/850W aren't.

Now, why is the 650W version only a little bit louder, while the higher wattage ones are significantly louder while using the exact same PSU case/shroud and fan which are responsible for the louder fan curve?

Have you looked at the review I linked above yours? Looking at "average" noise output includes the last bit of the fan curve at maximum or near-maximum power draw.  Do you plan on operating your power supply at such high power draw percentage?  If so, most will be noisy.  Otherwise for normal, the new RM650x 2021 seems inaudible to very quiet to me based on that review for normal usage range between 0 and like 60% load.

 

5 hours ago, electropical said:

I agree with you that there's some overreacting going on, but one can rightfully be disappointed by the poor decision-making going on with the aforementioned company.

When the head of R&D is firmly opposing counterproductive changes only to be told to go kick rocks, frustration is to be expected.
The 2018 RMx wasn't just the best bang-for-the-buck PSU out there, it almost was an irreproachable unit : high-end performance, highly durable, compact, good pricing and ultra-quiet. Yes, the in-line caps are a pain, but you can resleeve the cables individually and get rid of the caps, and one can live without multirail OCP.

The RMx lineup was super popular because of how outstandingly quiet it was, it basically was the gold standard for ≤1000w units.
By taking away that quietness for no good reason, they basically took away a unique option at that price range, hence the complaints.
Now*, if you want a similarly quiet unit, you have to go for much higher wattages, and that ain't cheap.

*the 2018 version still is in production

Again the review above seems to indicate that the 650W version is ultra-quiet until high loads with respect to its maximum load rating.

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

1 hour ago, Quartz11 said:

Have you looked at the review I linked above yours? Looking at "average" noise output includes the last bit of the fan curve at maximum or near-maximum power draw.  Do you plan on operating your power supply at such high power draw percentage?  If so, most will be noisy.  Otherwise for normal, the new RM650x 2021 seems inaudible to very quiet to me based on that review for normal usage range between 0 and like 60% load.

I read that review when it was released, because i am from Germany and check that website on a daily basis, but the 550/650W models aren't the problem as i wrote.

Sure, i won't operate a 750/850W PSU at full load for a longer time but as you can see in Aris review they are louder even at higher loads with ambient temps at ~30°.

 

edit: several reviews with sometimes very different noise measurements 

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/netzteile/55802-corsair-rm850x-im-test-version-2021-nun-mit-neuem-luefter-und-alten-staerken.html?start=2 If the noise would be this low at ~30° and full load RPM around 1000-1200 i wouldn't complain at all BUT there are other reviews with different RPM/db meassured.

https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/corsair_rmx_2021_550_750_1000/s08.php

https://m.hexus.net/tech/reviews/psu/147620-corsair-rm850x-psu-2021/

Those are the reviews with "good" RPM/DB readings.

Now the ones which worry me:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/corsair-rmx-series-850-w-2021/

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-rm750x-2021-power-supply-review

 

I have to say, i really trust Aris and his tests, maybe the difference is just the ambient temps but 30°C even in a good ventilated case is nothing unusal during summer even central europe.

 

The Corsair RMx 750/850, 2021 is still my most favourited PSU for my new build so far, i might probably still reuse my 6 year old Be Quiet! straight Power 10 CM 600w for a few more months If it isn't an issue to use such an "old" PSU which only has 5 years of warranty and see how the new fan curve of the 850w model will be.

[Quartz11]

This is what I meant about the measured dBm being “arbitrary”—it’s always different from reviewer to reviewer, for any reviews that include any fan noise measurements.  Their equiplent sensitivity, quality of measurements, and subjective evaluation will differ.  Comparative reviews are helpful to some extent, but individual perception and other factors like other components in the system and ambient noise level will be highly important in the end.  If your PSU is as quiet or is quieter than your overall ambient or system noise, then it’s not relevant that there are others even quieter than that.
 

 I’ve been reading reviews for noise measurements for years, including frequenting SilentPCReview a few years back, and what I’ve learned is to always take the reviews with a large grain of salt.  They rarely tell you the whole story. (For example, I recently got a 14cm case fan as a trial that had excellent comparative reviewed noise to performance ratio and overall performance, high accolades about how great that fan should be.  Unfortunately in my tests there is highly audible low frequency hum, easily heard at anything but the lowest RPM—my other fans have no audible hum.  Subjective airflow is not really better than no-hum fans it was going to replace (Fractal Design Dynamic X2).  I’m sticking with FD Dynamic X2 now.)

 

Regarding Aris’ reviews, he said nothing about the quiet electrical noise of Be Quiet DP12 (‘I have a 750W).  Normal for the DP12 series, I’ve tried two units.  It’s significantly more audible than the fan.  But not once inside a mid tower case and 4 feet away.  4 low rpm quiet case fans and low RPM quiet Scythe Fuma 2 fans are more audible than that, even at idle.  I can’t hear the PSU over them at all.  Another noise contributor: the storage hard drive.  I’ve just switched to a Seagate Exos X10, which is helium-filled and super quiet with almost no vibration, sitting on rubber dampeners in addition.  I can barely hear that too, but still it adds to the overall noise level.  The rest of the system always matters as a whole.

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

Yes, it is hard to compare db numbers from different sources, however thanks to Aris alot of PSUs are compareable.

Especially the RMx models, 2018 and 2021.

 

Like i said before, maybe i have a trauma about noisy PSUs thanks to that Antec unit i had, but the noise increase between the RMx revisions of the higher capacity models is rather dissapointing.

Feels like 2 steps forward but one step backwards.

Now i hope, that Aris will update his review sooner than later

[electropical]

16 hours ago, Quartz11 said:

Otherwise for normal, the new RM650x 2021 seems inaudible to very quiet to me based on that review for normal usage range between 0 and like 60% load.

 

Again the review above seems to indicate that the 650W version is ultra-quiet until high loads with respect to its maximum load rating.

Again, we're not saying "the 2021 RMxs are unbearably loud", we're saying "they don't need to be louder than the older model".
(the computerbase review is comparing the 2021 RM650x to the RM650, not the 2018/2015 RM650x).

As for the whole "your hard drive, your GPU and your case fans are going to be louder anyways", I respectfully disagree.
The minority of people that's willing to pay more for a PC that you won't notice in a silent room (in a calm neighborhood) can achieve that by :

• using fans with NO motor noise (NF-A12x25, or Arctic P12 PWM below 1000 RPM)*
• watercooling the GPU
• not using HDDs.

Stahlman was already complaining about his 2018 RM850x being the loudest part of his sytem, isn't that a good indication that there are people that can actually hear the PSU fan?

 

13 hours ago, Quartz11 said:

(For example, I recently got a 14cm case fan as a trial that had excellent comparative reviewed noise to performance ratio and overall performance, high accolades about how great that fan should be.  Unfortunately in my tests there is highly audible low frequency hum, easily heard at anything but the lowest RPM—my other fans have no audible hum.  Subjective airflow is not really better than no-hum fans it was going to replace (Fractal Design Dynamic X2).  I’m sticking with FD Dynamic X2 now.)

What was the fan that you were testing? ML140? EK Vardar EVO? They are known to make motor noise.
Or was it the Silent Wings 3?
(If that was the Arctic P14 PWM CO, that's not surprising, they use a dual ball bearing, not the fluid dynamic bearing of the regular fan)

*this guy reviewed several 120mm fans, the audio testing shows that the Arctic P12 PWM makes motor noise at 1000 RPM, while the Noctua NF-A12x25 never does : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwftVMGPOiI&t=322s

 

[Quartz11]

This argument could go on forever--I was just making points about the importance of analyzing the rest of the system with respect to your target noise level and the caveats of taking review numbers at their face value.  You might have a silent PSU, but still other components raising the noise floor. 

 

(And in regards to the reply above this one: water cooling pumps make noise too--I've had those in the past as well, both AIO and custom loops.  Frequently they make more noticeable noise due to certain more tonal frequencies.  Also I've had dozens of different fans over the years, including 7 Arctic P12--way too noisy even limited to low RPM for me, Silent Wings 3--two currently in my second desktop--etc.  My room has an extremely low noise floor with high sound isolation double pane windows and a quiet street.  Quiet computers have always been important to me, but I have yet to encounter one I cannot hear AT ALL, even with the highest quality components and all fans at low RPM.  If one wants a truly silent system, then they will use a fanless PSU or one with fan set to be off until loads higher than they will need, a passive CPU cooler, passive GPU cooler (or integrated graphics), only SSDs.  Maybe like 1 super quiet case fan. Then there's still the risk of coil/capacitor whine from various components.)

[Guest]

Good lord... we're still talking about this?

 

Who do I need to send a sample to so they can make a subjective conclusion that all of this has little to do with nothing?

 

[electropical]

32 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

Who do I need to send a sample to so they can make a subjective conclusion that all of this has little to do with nothing?

You can send me one, I'm not saying no to a free RMx !

[Guest]

U.S. only.  I'm not paying an arm and a leg for freight! 

 

[RAZ0RLIGHT]

1 hour ago, jonnyGURU said:

U.S. only.  I'm not paying an arm and a leg for freight! 

 

Damn, that sucks

Tbh. I'm just waiting for Aris updated review.

ps. have a nice weekend.

[Juular]

1 hour ago, jonnyGURU said:

all of this has little to do with nothing?

I mean, it is. Any level of noticeable noise would start at about 60-70% load judging by Aris review. I guess people just overreact because numbers are higher. Still, given that it has on paper, a better fan it's weird to see that it's actually has worse noise profile. I guess Sunon had to limited time frame to optimize the impeller design for it given that you seem to be aware that it's worse than Hong Hua's ?

Edit: it doesn't help that Aris has only published 850W/1000W reviews yet, according to Cybenetics reviews 550/650W versions are just as quiet as 2018 models, so there wouldn't been much less fuss if they were published first ...

1 hour ago, jonnyGURU said:

Who do I need to send a sample

R.I.P. your inbox lol. But if you're serious, i do have an US address if no one else would claim it, and i have a RM750x to compare it with.