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Is JavaScript Worth it?

OK to be clear I had a very low opinion of JavaScript since it came out in the mid to late 90's. At the Time it was Way Overused, badly written, resulting in useless Popups, and more often then not Crashed your Browser.

 

While things have gotten better since then, it still seems that badly written Scripting is around... We all experienced our Browsers Slowing down because of overusing Scripts...

 

This from the Viewpoint of a User of the Web. Maybe I'm merely saying that just because a Method or Tech is the greatest thing since Sliced Bread. it doesn't mean it should always be used for all things.

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Well, you are opening a javascript driven website here. Most of popular site use some sort of js framework like facebook or twitter. It's essential.

Yeah you can make a website from pure html, but the user experience will not be as good.

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You do understand that many modern websites/web apps would not be possible in the form they are prevalent today without the use of JavaScript, including this forum?

Remember to quote or @mention others, so they are notified of your reply

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53 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

OK to be clear I had a very low opinion of JavaScript since it came out in the mid to late 90's. At the Time it was Way Overused, badly written, resulting in useless Popups, and more often then not Crashed your Browser.

 

While things have gotten better since then, it still seems that badly written Scripting is around... We all experienced our Browsers Slowing down because of overusing Scripts...

 

This from the Viewpoint of a User of the Web. Maybe I'm merely saying that just because a Method or Tech is the greatest thing since Sliced Bread. it doesn't mean it should always be used for all things.

You're pretty much spot on, Javascript is quite overused and is badly written in many cases.  Although, this has been helped significantly by the amount of Javascript frameworks out there which allow programmers to be able to more versatile code that doesn't crash your browser.

 

I've definitely seen some great Javascript apps, and Javascript is heavily used and does have some good use cases - but as a language I'm not a fan of it personally.

 

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The best use cases for it today (and something it excels at) is writing Cloud-Native applications that are able to be easily split up into multiple components, are really easy to containerize and can be easily tested using CI/CD.

 

CI/CD is a big reason why we see less rubbish code in production - things are tested at a much more effecient and automated rate.  Gone are the days of pushing code and having someone manually 'review' (A.K.A - I'm busy, I'll glance at it - ahhh actually, I trust you - approved.) and here are the days of using a CI server with many very specific tests and many spoke tests in the pipeline to confirm the API's respond as planned.

 

As you might tell, I love the prospect of devops - and will happily discuss it 🙂

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Yes I well aware of such Facts about JavaScript usages. But many Sites/Pages have badly written Scripts that slow your browser or even crash it.

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3 minutes ago, Akolyte said:

Gone are the days of pushing code and having someone manually 'review'

wut?

 

CI and manual code review solve different problems. You still should have manual review, you can write bad code that passes automated tests, or you may simply not write enough tests (or write them incorrectly).

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2 minutes ago, DriftMan said:

Tell me what programming languages aren't badly written, because the quality of the code depends 100% on the developers behind it, and not the language

While True, I'm not sure if JavaScript was all that well thought out when it was Developed.

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16 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Yes I well aware of such Facts about JavaScript usages. But many Sites/Pages have badly written Scripts that slow your browser or even crash it.

That is a fault of that particular site and its developers and not JavaScript in general. I'm certainly no fan of the language due to its many oddities and peculiar quirks. But modern frameworks help with that a lot. And bad developers can produce horrendous code in any language.

 

Can't say I've had my browser crash because of a bad script in a long time. Not because bad scripts no longer exist, but because modern browsers have taken a lot of steps to prevent stuff like this from happening. At most the tab the site is on will freeze and the browser will ask you to close it.

 

10 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

While True, I'm not sure if JavaScript was all that well thought out when it was Developed.

Sure. That's why stuff like TypeScript exists (which compiles to JS). But for backwards compatibility reasons it's not that easy to get rid of it. And nothing stops a bad developer from writing bad code in TypeScript or even WebAssembly.

Remember to quote or @mention others, so they are notified of your reply

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The reason Javascript's early adoption was so poor was because it was new language without a whole lot of new features, and also because of the lack of industry-accepted standardization meant that everyone was trying to their own things and push the envelope of what you can do in a web browser. When JS couldn't do it, they'd find something that could, build their own, roll their own, or use some other technology (see JScript, for instance).

 

This is what leads to browser incompatibilities and scripts crashing. Browsers weren't mature either and back then it used to be an all in one integrated stack. Really though imo the web in general was a complete mess for a good while since it originally took off in the 90's. But that's just because stable technology couldn't keep up with innovation.

 

The Javascript you knew is nothing like the Javascript of today, and while it may have the same syntax rules and quirks, actual web programming with it is far more complicated than you could have dreamed up in the 90's, but also much, much better with the rise of the MVC design pattern.  Most websites these days are being written using front-end frameworks like React or Vue. Modern web development requires a massive development stack and if you were interested in getting into it the learning curve is high. Not just because how so fundamentally different Javascript is than other programming languages, but because trying to solve the web problem is just that hard. People expect more and more out of web pages and developers will continue to keep delivering the content people crave. A web page that's just text and hyperlinks won't cut it anymore.

 

The question isn't really whether or not Javascript is worth it, you don't have a choice if you're developing web technology.

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You are complaining about bad developers and not bad languages. You can write bad code in every single language, be it unstable, buggy or all of it. The modern web and web apps as we know it would not be possible without JS. It's also the only language that can run both back- and frontend.

 

It took a while for JS to mature but the first iterations of JS have nothing to do with modern JS, heck, even the JS from the mid to late 2000s is very very different to what we have today. Modern JS is very powerful and many quirks are now a thing of the past but of course, some fundamentals will not change. 

 

In contrast to other popular languages, JS is changing constantly and you can't just learn it once and be good. Every 1-2 years there will be changes you need to look into in order to stay on top. 

 

The web runs on Javascript no matter whether you like it or not. Web development is not feasibly possible without it. Deal with it or find a different field.

Use the quote function when answering! Mark people directly if you want an answer from them!

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You can try turning off Javascript in your browser for a week or even a day and see how many good and not "crash your browser"-like uses Javascript has.

Every programming language is a tool, which can be used badly.

 

That's actually what a lot of adblockers and privacy control extensions would do, block the bad online (including bad Javascript scripts) to stop tracking/slowdown/ads/etc.

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19 hours ago, bowrilla said:

The web runs on Javascript no matter whether you like it or not. Web development is not feasibly possible without it. Deal with it or find a different field.

I think that's the best summary despite hating the language myself.

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On 3/27/2021 at 6:36 AM, DriftMan said:

Tell me what programming languages aren't badly written, because the quality of the code depends 100% on the developers behind it, and not the language

That's not true at all otherwise there would only be one programming language. They all have their pros and cons and should be used accordingly 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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52 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

That's not true at all otherwise there would only be one programming language. They all have their pros and cons and should be used accordingly 

This one just happen to have a lot of cons 🤣

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1 hour ago, Franck said:

This one just happen to have a lot of cons 🤣

No no, it doesn't have cons, it has lots of features! 😄

 

I mean, show me a language other than Brainf**** in which this or something similar would be considered as valid by the interpreter/compiler:

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!+[]]]+[])[+!+[]+[+!+[]]]+(!![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]]](!+[]+!+[]+!+[]+[+!+[]])[+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]((!![]+[])[+[]])[([][(!![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+([][[]]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+(!![]+[])[+!+[]]+([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(!![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]]()+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+([][[]]+[])[+!+[]]](([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]][([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+([][[]]+[])[+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+(!![]+[])[+!+[]]+([][[]]+[])[+[]]+([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+(!![]+[][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(!![]+[])[+!+[]]]((!![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+([][[]]+[])[+[]]+(!![]+[])[+!+[]]+([][[]]+[])[+!+[]]+(![]+[+[]])[([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]]()[+!+[]+[+[]]]+![]+(![]+[+[]])[([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]]()[+!+[]+[+[]]])()[([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+([][[]]+[])[+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+(!![]+[])[+!+[]]+([][[]]+[])[+[]]+([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+(!![]+[][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(!![]+[])[+!+[]]]((![]+[+[]])[([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]]()[+!+[]+[+[]]])+[])[+!+[]])+([]+[])[(![]+[])[+[]]+(!![]+[][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+([][[]]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]+([][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]]+[])[!+[]+!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(!![]+[][(![]+[])[+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[+!+[]]+(!![]+[])[+[]]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(!![]+[])[+!+[]]]()[+!+[]+[!+[]+!+[]]])())

 

Okay, I'll let myself out ...

 

Edit:

Spoiler

 

Use the quote function when answering! Mark people directly if you want an answer from them!

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48 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

No no, it doesn't have cons, it has lots of features! 😄

 

I mean, show me a language other than Brainf**** in which this or something similar would be considered as valid by the interpreter/compiler:


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Okay, I'll let myself out ...

 

Edit:

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Off hand, I think that the Programmers capable of writing useful code in Brainfuck are the same people  who can easily think in Polish Reverse Notation...

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On 3/27/2021 at 11:33 AM, whm1974 said:

At the Time it was Way Overused

And it has become worse by 2021.

 

I warmly recommand to use as little JavaScript as possible. For menu animations and similar weirdness, CSS is enough; and AJAX can usually be replaced (or accompanied) by a good old HTTP POST.

Write in C.

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1 hour ago, Dat Guy said:

And it has become worse by 2021.

 

I warmly recommand to use as little JavaScript as possible. For menu animations and similar weirdness, CSS is enough; and AJAX can usually be replaced (or accompanied) by a good old HTTP POST.

Takes longer, certain kind of apps aren't possible and user experience can be worse.

I have the impression that you're thinking of JQuery or similar usages of JS, how about React? Angular? Vue? Ember? Svelte? Preact? And since it can run front- and backends, how about Next.js? Gatsby? Koa? Strapi? Meteor? Nest?

Heck, I'd rather do my backend manually via Express than using Wordpress. You think JS is chaotic? Go have fun with PHP.

 

Pure CSS effects can work in certain situations but browser support is often worse. Or try i.e. a hero image with a logo on top, that zooms on scroll and ends up sticky at the top. Ain't gonna happen with pure CSS.

 

I sincerely wonder how much experience you have with modern webdesign, web technologies, UI/UX design and so on. Taken from your post I guess not much.

Use the quote function when answering! Mark people directly if you want an answer from them!

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8 hours ago, bowrilla said:

certain kind of apps aren't possible

Certain kinds of “apps” don’t belong in a web browser. We already have something better: actual operating systems.

 

8 hours ago, bowrilla said:

You think JS is chaotic? Go have fun with PHP.

If only there were more than two languages!

 

8 hours ago, bowrilla said:

I sincerely wonder how much experience you have with modern webdesign, web technologies, UI/UX design and so on. Taken from your post I guess not much.

From what I understand, you think that everyone who dives into the world of JavaScript would absolutely adore enforcing a client-side runtime on their visitors. Let me assure you that, even although many people do it, it’s still horrible.

Write in C.

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