Should I disable cool n quiet, and why? Also how do I set a clock or voltage offset with PBO enabled?

[Mark Kaine]

So yeah, it's been about two years I was in the BIOS of my motherboard... this is all pretty complicated and overwhelming...

 

I have an idea of what to do,  but totally not how,  there are soo many settings... I really hope there's a simple way to do what I want  - which I'm not sure what it is myself... i guess "more performance" but I would also settle with less heat and same or better performance... 

 

Also I definitely thought cool n quiet would be disabled but it was on the whole time,  which didn't seem to matter much, cpu has always been working as intended, up to 4200mhz as is written on the box. 

 

So what parameters do I need to change exactly if I want it to boost higher  - note I still want it to downclock normally while also getting higher boost clocks,  especially under load...

 

Specs in sig, motherboard is a msi b350m.

 

[Guest]

Put a Wraith Prism on it and it'll run cooler. 

Then you can just enable PBO and increase the EDC in Ryzen Master and it'll just automatically boost harder. Should give decent results actually. It's how I run my 2700x. Everything else on auto except memory configuration.

 

 

[svmlegacy]

25 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

cool n quiet

Cool N Quiet does nothing on a Zen system. presumably it's there for the piledriver based APU's

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

Cool N Quiet does nothing on a Zen system. presumably it's there for the piledriver based APU's

I don't even have this option in my bios.....

[Mark Kaine]

26 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Put a Wraith Prism on it and it'll run cooler. 

Then you can just enable PBO and increase the EDC in Ryzen Master and it'll just automatically boost harder. Should give decent results actually. It's how I run my 2700x. Everything else on auto except memory configuration.

 

 

EDC, ok, how do I do that in BIOS though?  This board does not work with Ryzen Master... not a chance lol, immediate shut down as soon it's opened... 

I would also really prefer not having to start up yet another program when I turn on my pc - but anyway,  RM is not an option. :thinking:

 

ps: also I have a noctua cooler...  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

EDC, ok, how do I do that in BIOS though?  This board does not work with Ryzen Master... not a chance lol, immediate shut down... 

I would also really prefer not having to start up yet another program when I turn on my pc - but anyway,  RM us not an option. :thinking:

 

ps: also I have a noctua cooler...  

Ah, nvm the cooler. Missed it in the sig.

 

What is in cTDP limit control?

Sry, not familiar with MSeye boards.

[Mark Kaine]

36 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Ah, nvm the cooler. Missed it in the sig.

 

What is in cTDP limit control?

Sry, not familiar with MSeye boards.

 

128w is max, 45w minimum, 128 seems a bit much?  

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

128w is max, 45w minimum, 128 seems a bit much?  

 

 

Chip is default advertised as 65w Maybe lower it to 60w and see if it runs a little cooler. It may lower the clocks though. Not sure. play with it in small increments.

[Mark Kaine]

28 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Chip is default advertised as 65w Maybe lower it to 60w and see if it runs a little cooler. It may lower the clocks though. Not sure. play with it in small increments.

Huh, ok but isn't this one of these power thingies here, it's using a lot more than 65w...?

Just curious 

 

 

Btw temps went up with PBO enabled (it was on automatic before)  previously it wouldn't go above 76C in prime95,  now it's 86C... of course I dunno if that's because it's boosting more now or something. 

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Huh, ok but isn't this one of these power thingies here, it's using a lot more than 65w...?

Just curious 

 

Btw temps went up with PBO enabled (it was on automatic before)  previously it wouldn't go above 76C in prime95,  now it's 86C... of course I dunno if that's because it's boosting more now or something. 

 

 

Well the Cpu auto boosts. Even at "defaults"

PBO auto = disabled. 

Enabled will run higher and more frequent boosts yes. You are spot on correct.

 

You want to set 36.25 multi in bios manually. That would be your default frequency.

1/4 multi higher, because if you use the default multiplier, it will act as normal and auto-boost.

[Mark Kaine]

14 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Well the Cpu auto boosts. Even at "defaults"

PBO auto = disabled. 

Enabled will run higher and more frequent boosts yes. You are spot on correct.

 

Ah, i see,  yeah that makes sense...

I thought maybe it's my fan settings  - I usually run a "silent" configuration, which means around 500rpm all fans and they only ramp up under load,  but I tried with "default" settings, so around 1000rpm for all 4 case fans, but it didn't make a difference at all (since under load rpm is largely unchanged to "silent" settings anyways)

 

And ok, good,  at least something i understood!  : D

 

14 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

You want to set 36.25 multi in bios manually. That would be your default frequency.

1/4 multi higher, because if you use the default multiplier, it will act as normal and auto-boost

UwU... ok, so PBO *on* and set multiplier 36.25... and nothing else...? 

 

What results should I expect with this then?  

 

Also I found this, it sounds like what I initially thought of doing  -  but I still don't really know how lol...

 

 

What throws me off is the "PBO advanced and 200mhz core gain"  is this something I need to set or does PBO advanced do this automatically? 

 

I do have an idea (at least) how to set the voltage off set.

 

Edit: it's this, right? Mind, I didn't apply this obviously,  just trying to figure out how the settings even work...

 

 

EDIT2:  OK I did it... was curious and I think I figured out what he meant with 200mhz "core gain" ...! Taking it slow though...

 

Do you think this looks like an improvement at all @ShrimpBrime?

 

 

It's using less max voltage, and boosting seems to be the same if not improved (not sure)

 

And it didn't crash...in my usual "to test 4" run...

 

Temps are definitely lower (with PBO "advanced" and voltage offset)

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Ah, i see,  yeah that makes sense...

I thought maybe it's my fan settings  - I usually run a "silent" configuration, which means around 500rpm all fans and they only ramp up under load,  but I tried with "default" settings, so around 1000rpm for all 4 case fans, but it didn't make a difference at all (since under load rpm is largely unchanged to "silent" settings anyways)

 

And ok, good,  at least something i understood!  : D

 

UwU... ok, so PBO *on* and set multiplier 36.25... and nothing else...? 

 

What results should I expect with this then?  

 

Also I found this, it sounds like what I initially thought of doing  -  but I still don't really know how lol...

 

 

What throws me off is the "PBO advanced and 200mhz core gain"  is this something I need to set or does PBO advanced do this automatically? 

 

I do have an idea (at least) how to set the voltage off set.

 

Edit: it's this, right? Mind, I didn't apply this obviously,  just trying to figure out how the settings even work...

 

 

EDIT2:  OK I did it... was curious and I think I figured out what he meant with 200mhz "core gain" ...! Taking it slow though...

 

Do you think this looks like an improvement at all @ShrimpBrime?

 

 

It's using less max voltage, and boosting seems to be the same if not improved (not sure)

 

And it didn't crash...in my usual "to test 4" run...

 

Temps are definitely lower (with PBO "advanced" and voltage offset)

 

Looks like good testing to me!!!

 

The improvement will depend on you satisfaction. 

 

Which settings seem to work best?

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The improvement will depend on you satisfaction. 

Yeah, that's true I guess, but I can't say I'm noticing a real difference yet... think I need get it around 200mhz "boost override" probably... but I first do voltage offset, or maybe I do both in small increments. 

 

3 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Which settings seem to work best?

Well, can't tell,  I haven't really tried much so far... 

 

But I have a good feeling with the undervolt and my cooler it won't run too hot, since I don't think this motherboard is really ideal for overclocking,  although there are probably worse...

 

I mean if I could actually get it to 4.2+ all (or most) core that would be a success,  otherwise I don't think this maybe slightly improved boost behavior is noticeable in real life applications (aka games lol)

 

 

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Yeah, that's true I guess, but I can't say I'm noticing a real difference yet... think I need get it around 200mhz "boost override" probably... but I first do voltage offset, or maybe I do both in small increments. 

 

Well, can't tell,  I haven't really tried much so far... 

 

But I have a good feeling with the undervolt and my cooler it won't run too hot, since I don't think this motherboard is really ideal for overclocking,  although there are probably worse...

 

I mean if I could actually get it to 4.2+ all (or most) core that would be a success,  otherwise I don't think this maybe slightly improved boost behavior is noticeable in real life applications (aka games lol)

 

 

Give or take a couple percent gains or losses depending on the settings isnt much to concern over.

 

For most gamers, the best approach would be XMP and CPB or PBO or PH enabled and just let it fly.

[Mark Kaine]

56 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Give or take a couple percent gains or losses depending on the settings isnt much to concern over.

 

For most gamers, the best approach would be XMP and CPB or PBO or PH enabled and just let it fly.

I mean I probably just think if it'd boost over 4ghz in games there should be maybe some improvements, but then I'm barely cpu bottlenecked so I'm not sure, I can play ROTTR at 4k and the only thing holding me back is the gpu, that game is crazy as far as options go lol,  can almost max it out too,  but not quite...

 

If anything I'd save some electricity?  : P

 

56 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

XMP and CPB or PBO or PH enabled and just let it fly.

It does fly... directly to 3.85ghz or so and then it doesn't fly anymore because it hits a seemingly hard wall... which I think is mostly a voltage thing,  it's not that it couldn't boost higher but the voltage controls or whatever don't allow it.  As I understand it. 

 

 

BTW, funny... timespy says cpu clocks are exactly 50mhz more, which is precisely what I set as override in PBO 

 

Or in other words,  +1.7% in the cpu benchmark,  which isn't even good for 1 full fps

 

 

 

But this is only the start! I'm confident there are at least 2 FPS in it lmao xD

 

PS: yes, driver and windows versions are regressing,  I have no idea how this could happen!

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

It does fly... directly to 3.85ghz or so and then it doesn't fly anymore because it hits a seemingly hard wall... which I think is mostly a voltage thing, 

 

Well it's a current thing (Amps drawn) more so than voltage, but they are hand in hand obviously.

 

Ryzen Master, PBO (game tab is what I use) and increase the EDC with the same current settings and see if it boosts higher.

[Mark Kaine]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:55 PM, ShrimpBrime said:

Well it's a current thing (Amps drawn) more so than voltage, but they are hand in hand obviously.

 

Ryzen Master, PBO (game tab is what I use) and increase the EDC with the same current settings and see if it boosts higher.

Oh, ok I see,  so almost got it right. 

 

Well, I set it to 500mv negative offset and 200mhz boost now... I got ever so slightly better cpu scores in 3DMark but if I'm honest I'm not noticing anything really besides that. 

It also automatically changed back to 1600/1800 for the infinity fabric thing,  I'm trying that now if there are any changes with 1600/1600.

 

Also,  and that's mysterious,  i get tons of "correctable WHEA errors" now, I always did,  but it changed... 

Usually it was *only* on boot before I changed anything in BIOS, but now it's *not* on boot,  but instead when I open Afterburner,  or CPUZ, or run 3DMark benchmark, etc, weirdly not while running games...

 

Point is it objectively got worse... maybe something dodgy with the mobo,  but ultimately I don't know. 

 

Hmm, ok, so another approach would be to simply increase EDC a bit,  but not sure how much?

 

 

Edit: here's after opening CPUZ 

And here after opening Afterburner...

 

 

This isn't unusual per say, for this board,  but the difference is it's accumulating these errors a lot more now, it really used to be only on boot and then never again until next boot... I also tried with previous "default" BIOS settings,  but no change, it's doing this always now - I didn't however try to  load "optimized default settings" yet,  and I'm unsure that would change anything tbh lol.

 

But, it's mysterious,  to me?

 

PS: I'm aware these are GPU errors,  but obviously they are caused by the motherboard itself and not the GPU,  i know because it happens with *any* GPU, but doesn't happen at all with a Tomahawk Max mobo I tried some time ago (the issue with that mobo was that it frequently crashed while idling so I returned it )

 

[Guest]

The resolve for whea errors seems to have been suggested in the past to replace the hardware. Cpu whea errors, then replace or warranty the cpu. 

 

I am not confident the board is causing the errors. But without other hardware to test with, we'd only be guessing.

[Mark Kaine]

7 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The resolve for whea errors seems to have been suggested in the past to replace the hardware. Cpu whea errors, then replace or warranty the cpu. 

 

I am not confident the board is causing the errors. But without other hardware to test with, we'd only be guessing.

But I did test it.  Excacty the same parts,  except the mobo... no WHEA errors. 

 

And with my board it simply doesn't matter which GPU the errors are always present in some way. AMD or Nvidia,  doesn't matter and the errors specifically point to the GPU/PCIE device,  therefore it's the motherboard... imo.

 

It's not a huge issue,  except when it happens a lot it could become noticeable... I had that in the past,  but not entirely sure how I resolved it.  It's just weird that it changed now, none on boot, but apparently things like afterburner,  CPUZ... trigger it.

[Guest]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

But I did test it.  Excacty the same parts,  except the mobo... no WHEA errors. 

 

And with my board it simply doesn't matter which GPU the errors are always present in some way. AMD or Nvidia,  doesn't matter and the errors specifically point to the GPU/PCIE slot,  therefore it's the motherboard... imo.

 

It's not a huge issue,  except when it happens a lot it could become noticeable... I had that in the past,  but not entirely sure how I resolved it.  It's just weird that it changed now, none on boot, but apparently things like afterburner,  CPUZ... trigger it.

Well why not warranty the board then. I believe you diagnosed it well imo.

[Mark Kaine]

1 minute ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Well why not warranty the board then. I believe you diagnosed it well imo.

when I found out about this,  by using another mobo and reading a lot about it too, the warranty simple wasn't applicable anymore (2 years) And thanks lol, i always suspected the mobo,  but it's been working quite well despite these errors, and I had no way to actually test it since I didn't have a second mobo (Btw exact same behavior with a ryzen 2200G,  the mobo is just quite buggy from the looks of it ...  it also used to randomly throw Chinese error messages in bios lol... tldr MSI don't give a hoot about QA ...)

[Guest]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

when I found out about this,  by using another mobo and reading a lot about it too, the warranty simple wasn't applicable anymore (2 years) And thanks lol, i always suspected the mobo,  but it's been working quite well despite these errors, and I had no way to actually test it since I didn't have a second mobo (Btw exact same behavior with a ryzen 2200G,  the mobo is just quite buggy from the looks of it ...  it also used to randomly throw Chinese error messages in bios lol... tldr MSI don't give a hoot about QA ...)

Asus has a 3 years manufacturer warranty...... 5 years on TUF (non-gaming) boards.

I believe MSI is also 3 years manufacturer warranty. 

[Mark Kaine]

4 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Asus has a 3 years manufacturer warranty...... 5 years on TUF (non-gaming) boards.

I believe MSI is also 3 years manufacturer warranty. 

Oh, darn, I didn't know that... thanks...

 

I'll have to check when I bought it. 

 

BTW, new record! @ShrimpBrime 

 

 

I don't think I've seen this yet,  2 cores at 4.2 one at 4.22 ... they used to max out right before 4.2 (typically)

 

Should I just give it a bit more "boost" maybe... i mean it should less voltage with the offset anyway, what could happen!?  

[OCMaster-Veach09]

It's fine to disable it. 

 

For me, I get the precise voltage from the Ryzen Master PBO, then you will need to configure your clock in the bios manually according to the PBO voltage, it's the same effect when you restart without setting it manually in the bios, but you can only see the difference on the task manager, your base clock in default or the one you changed manually on bios. Say, my R7 3700X PBO is 4.4GHz 1.46v, AIO 360 6 PWM, now I use the PBO voltage as a guide to configuring manually in bios. I could reach 4.6GHz by increasing the voltage a little bit and configuring my DDR4 RAM from a default 3600MHz to 4400MHz.

 

My settings are stable and still improving based on safety procedures.

 

 Cheers!

Mor