Nvidia Unhackable RTX 3060 anti-miners driver has just been hacked (this time for real)

[Moonzy]

39 minutes ago, Rauten said:

I can imagine these words coming out of the mouth of the big pharma representatives for the companies that drove insulin prices up 10x in the U.S.A.
I mean, there are people that have the capabilities to for it that others don't, so why is it immoral? It's perfectly legal

Do you feel remorse when you buy food? Because there are people that can't afford food or shelter, that doesn't makes others who buy it less moral.

And food is essential, GPU is not.

 

I truly don't get it, should I not buy something just because other people can't afford it? I've asked this three times now.

 

41 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Well, yeah. 

But you like being able to go to the grocery to buy things like food and clothes, I suppose? Whether we like it or not, we need the transportation industry.

Yes we do

So what about mining makes it bad, again?

It's not doing nothing, it's not providing nothing.

Clearly people see value in it, that's why it's an industry now

[Rauten]

16 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

Do you feel remorse when you buy food? Because there are people that can't afford food or shelter, that doesn't makes others who buy it less moral.

And food is essential, GPU is not.

 

I truly don't get it, should I not buy something just because other people can't afford it? I've asked this three times now.

Like I said in my post, but you have for whatever reason decided to ignore:

1 hour ago, Rauten said:

Yes, it's hardly fair, because insulin is a life-saving medicine, but I'm just trying to prove that reducing everything to a mere "Entity A purchases product B" is going too far with the simplification, and also that morality can definitely be part of a commercial and legal transaction - just because they can and it's legal doesn't necessarily mean it's right.

 

I'm not necessarily saying that you are evil - I'm saying there's a lot more nuance to, well, anything really, than "it's legal therefore it's ok".

And by the way, no, I do not feel remorse when buying food because I need it. I do however feel remorse merely thinking about throwing food away.

 

Also, GPU is not essential? Even for gamers, it's debatable (You would be surprised at how many people have been able to recover from psychological trauma or depression thanks to videogames), but what about the small game devs / 3d artists / video editors? The ones that may actually NEED that GPU horsepower to conduct their businesses and stay afloat, but now can't afford it because the prices have skyrocketed due to the mining boom?

25 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

So what about mining makes it bad, again?

It's not doing nothing, it's not providing nothing.

Clearly people see value in it, that's why it's an industry now

 The thing about cryptomining, and crypto in general, is that it's a world-wide circle-jerking exercise. People believe in it therefore they give it a monetary value, therefore attracting more people, therefore raising the monetary value. Even though it has no real backing (gold standard or official government valuation).

 

It started as an idea of a decentralized currency, a kind of "for the people, by the people", but has devolved into sheer speculation and gigantic mining farms. 

There are still some small-time farmers, like you, making some money off it, but current day mining & crypto is basically Wall Street v2.0

 

There's also the fact that miners get money for doing, well, nothing. Yes, you "mine" data blocks, but what purpose does it serve? Do you provide any good or service? Do you fulfill a need for society? Create art? Provide entertainment? Again, it's all just a gigantic circle-jerk riding on pure speculation and a bubble that may or may not burst at any moment; or never, who knows.

 

Or maybe my perception is wrong - Can you tell me why we should accept crypto & mining, and let it simply be, despite the clear negative impact on the environment? Does it actually provide a service, or purpose, that we either need or could improve our lives?

[Moonzy]

9 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Even for gamers, it's debatable (You would be surprised at how many people have been able to recover from psychological trauma or depression thanks to videogames), but what about the small game devs / 3d artists / video editors? The ones that may actually NEED that GPU horsepower to conduct their businesses and stay afloat, but now can't afford it because the prices have skyrocketed due to the mining boom?

they should be able to justify the price if they truly needs it, just like how quadro makes no sense for that little bit more features to cost that much more, but companies are still buying them

 

9 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Do you provide any good or service?

yea, processing transactions of crypto from my understanding

 

honestly speaking, if someone said they'll pay me $10000 to dig a 1 cubic feet hole and they'll fill it back up later because they're bored, i would do it.

i don't really care what other people are doing as long as i know im getting benefits, so it's a black box to me

 

9 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Can you tell me why we should accept crypto & mining, and let it simply be, despite the clear negative impact on the environment?

i do agree that it does have a negative impact on the environment, but i have weighted the pros and cons and decided that it's worth it to me.

you may not agree with it, because you don't see a value in it, but clearly many people do

 

9 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Does it actually provide a service, or purpose, that we either need or could improve our lives?

perhaps not for you,but it did create an industry and revolves around crypto, people make and lose millions every day on it.

 

just because you don't benefit from something you're not a part of doesn't mean it should go, no?

or is everything that people do must benefit you for it to justify its existence somehow?

[Rauten]

14 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

they should be able to justify the price if they truly needs it, just like how quadro makes no sense for that little bit more features to cost that much more, but companies are still buying them.

Being able to justify the price =/= being able to afford it

21 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

yea, processing transactions of crypto from my understanding

So we go back to the circle-jerk.

22 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

honestly speaking, if someone said they'll pay me $10000 to dig a 1 cubic feet hole and they'll fill it back up later because they're bored, i would do it.

i don't really care what other people are doing as long as i know im getting benefits, so it's a black box to me

Uhm... Do you realize how morally bankrupt that makes you sound?

24 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

i do agree that it does have a negative impact on the environment, but i have weighted the pros and cons and decided that it's worth it to me.

you may not agree with it, because you don't see a value in it, but clearly many people do

Ok.

26 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

perhaps not for you,but it did create an industry and revolves around crypto, people make and lose millions every day on it.

 

just because you don't benefit from something you're not a part of doesn't mean it should go, no?

or is everything that people do must benefit you for it to justify its existence somehow?

Note I didn't talk about me, I talked about "we" and "our". I don't give 2 figs about theater and I've never set foot in an art museum, and that doesn't make me want to see them gone.

Again, does it actually provide a service, or purpose, that we either need or could improve our lives? Our, meaning humanity/society.

[LAwLz]

So the title is wrong?

Sounds like the driver wasn't hacked (more like they downloaded a driver from Nvidia that didn't have the limit) and so far people have only been able to get it working on a single card computer (and not the big mining farms where they got like 7 cards in a single computer).

 

Sounds to me like people really want this to fail for some reason, and are jumping on the "it's been beaten" train as soon as there is even a slight indication of it being true.

[Moonzy]

20 minutes ago, Rauten said:

So we go back to the circle-jerk.

Call it what you want, it's just another ecosystem

 

Need I remind you that the entire earth is technically a giant "circle jerk", people giving each other money for services among ourselves.

 

20 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Uhm... Do you realize how morally bankrupt that makes you sound?

Sure, I just say what I felt was true

People get paid to do stuffs, that's about it

 

I don't care if you're a criminal or a good samaritan, your money is as good as any others

 

20 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Again, does it actually provide a service, or purpose, that we either need or could improve our lives?

So miners aren't part of humanity? The crypto ecosystem isn't part of humanity?

I guess we're monsters in your book.

 

20 minutes ago, Rauten said:

Being able to justify the price =/= being able to afford it

Not being able to afford it =\= other people's fault, yes?

 

U may argue that miners raise the price by over-demanding and over-paying, but that's because their use case justify the pricing.

So in the end, the product pricing simply follows supply and demand.

[Kilrah]

6 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

I don't care if you're a criminal or a good samaritan, your money is as good as any others

So yeah, morally bankrupt and selfish... "I don't care about anyone as long as I make some cash".

 

No further discussion worth it then.

[Arika]

22 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Sounds to me like people really want this to fail for some reason, and are jumping on the "it's been beaten" train as soon as there is even a slight indication of it being true.

which is confusing, people should be crying in despair if it does get hacked because that means it's open season for miners once again and is no longer a gpu specifically for gamers.

[Moonzy]

Just now, Kilrah said:

So yeah, morally bankrupt and selfish... "I don't care about anyone as long as I make some cash".

 

No further discussion worth it then.

You still have yet to say why it's morally wrong to do mining, though

Making money =\= morally wrong

 

That statement is more of me being equalist, instead of discriminating against certain people, which I hate.

 

Just now, Arika S said:

which is confusing, people should be crying in despair if it does get hacked because that means it's open season for miners once again and is no longer a gpu specifically for gamers.

Nvidia bad

[Kilrah]

2 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

You still have yet to say why it's morally wrong to do mining, though

I've mentioned it, insanely poor efficiency for what it provides, that by design gets worse as volume grows and technology progresses to improve a given device's efficiency.

 

The entire world gets shafted with energy regulations, taxes, minimal efficiency requirements etc in their daily lives to reduce energy consumption, and a group counteracts all of that by consuming as much energy as a whole country mostly from dirty sources just for a bit of speculation-based personal enrichment. 

 

8 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

That statement is more of me being equalist, instead of discriminating against certain people, which I hate.

More of you only looking at what you want to see, if you're "equalist" with a criminal you definitely aren't with the people they are hurting. 

 

 

 

[LAwLz]

12 minutes ago, Arika S said:

which is confusing, people should be crying in despair if it does get hacked because that means it's open season for miners once again and is no longer a gpu specifically for gamers.

My guess is that peoples' hatred for Nvidia to fail at anything and everything they do is stronger than peoples' hatred for miners.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

I've mentioned it, insanely poor efficiency for what it provides, that by design gets worse as volume grows and technology progresses to improve a given device's efficiency.

 

The entire world gets shafted with energy regulations, taxes, minimal efficiency requirements etc in their daily lives to reduce energy consumption, and a group counteracts all of that by consuming as much energy as a whole country mostly from dirty sources just for a bit of speculation-based personal enrichment. 

The same argument can be used for gaming.

Gaming uses a ton of power and doesn't really provide anything but entertainment, and even then new games seems to have poor energy:entertainment ratios as well.

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

More of you only looking at what you want to see, if you're "equalist" with a criminal you definitely aren't with the people they are hurting. 

It's less of a hurting than just being incapable of doing what they want to do

 

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

I've mentioned it, insanely poor efficiency for what it provides, that by design gets worse as volume grows and technology progresses to improve a given device's efficiency.

Does... Visa give me money for processing their transactions for them? No? Then it's not equivalent, not to me.

 

Mining provides an opportunity to me to finance my hobby, that's about it for me.

So tell me why it's morally wrong to mine.

 

Or if there's another way I can use my PC to do similar things, do let me know.

Back in 2017 there was a service to rent your PC as gaming servers to allow people to remote in, that's the closest I've seen.

 

8 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

The entire world gets shafted with energy regulations, taxes, minimal efficiency requirements etc in their daily lives to reduce energy consumption, and a group counteracts all of that by consuming as much energy as a whole country mostly from dirty sources just for a bit of speculation-based personal enrichment. 

And it's worth it if I get to finance my hobbies

 

Mining provides services just like many other stuffs. Again, just because you don't benefit from it doesn't mean it's not doing anything for anyone else. Me getting financial boost from processing the transaction is one aspect of it.

 

I don't benefit from a random game studio making a game for certain community, doesn't mean I should consider them wasting energy that I would otherwise benefit from.

It's really just from a point of view if you ask me. Perhaps you're the one only looking at what you want to see.

 

Just swap mining with something else you don't care about that consumes a lot of energy, such as space exploration for example, then see if your argument makes sense.

[Kilrah]

14 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The same argument can be used for gaming.

Gaming uses a ton of power and doesn't really provide anything but entertainment, and even then new games seems to have poor energy:entertainment ratios as well.

 

Still WAY less than mining... and entertainment is kinda essential for humans anyway.

 

Supposing you want 2 hours of entertainment, you can run a 3080 for 2 hours, or you can run it for about 100 hours to pay for going to watch a 2-hour movie at the cinema...

 

  

6 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

Does... Visa give me money for processing their transactions for them? No? Then it's not equivalent, not to me.

 

6 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

It's less of a hurting than just being incapable of doing what they want to do

Again you looking only at your own self and not giving a shit about anyone else. 

[Moonzy]

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Still WAY less than mining...

More energy =\= bad

We're going in circles here

 

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

entertainment is kinda essential for humans anyway

Ooo... You gonna get roasted for saying this

 

"Kinda" meaning you're in doubt of your own justification, very flimsy

 

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Again you looking only at your own self and not giving a shit about anyone else. 

Again, why should I?

Do I owe anyone anything or something? Jesus stop trying to benefit from something you're not a part of

[Kilrah]

1 minute ago, Moonzy said:

Again, why should I?

Guess my neighbor doesn't care about your life so there's nothing wrong in him taking a random guy's money to kill you?

[Moonzy]

Just now, Kilrah said:

Guess my neighbor doesn't care about your life so there's nothing wrong in him taking a random guy's money to kill you?

I'd have no complaints, to be honest

What would me saying no do? Waste my breath?

 

End my suffering

[Arika]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

Guess my neighbor doesn't care about your life so there's nothing wrong in him taking a random guy's money to kill you?

now, i don't agree with most of what has been said in this thread, but i think comparing murder in the first degree to mining (and it's side effects) is disingenuous to the point you're trying to make.

[Blademaster91]

33 minutes ago, Arika S said:

which is confusing, people should be crying in despair if it does get hacked because that means it's open season for miners once again and is no longer a gpu specifically for gamers.

Except the 3060 was never specifically for gamers, the mining nerf only applies to ETH, the 3060 still makes up to $7 a day with other coins. And why should Nvidia decide what a person can do with the card they paid for? The same company is selling directly to miners yet tells consumers they care with the CMP card nonsense, which takes up silicon during a shortage and could be instead used to be used to make more consumer level cards.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rtx-3060-still-profitable-mining

30 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

You still have yet to say why it's morally wrong to do mining, though

Making money =\= morally wrong

So you're totally ignoring the environmental impact because other things have an environmental impact so mining must be just fine, even though mining produces nothing, unless you're a crypto investor or miner.

34 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

That statement is more of me being equalist, instead of discriminating against certain people, which I hate.

Thats ironic considering you're saying gaming is worse, yet gaming provides business for developers, reviewers, streamers, and gaming hardware companies.

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

 

Still WAY less than mining... and entertainment is kinda essential for humans anyway.

 

Supposing you want 2 hours of entertainment, you can run a 3080 for 2 hours, or you can run it for about 100 hours to pay for going to watch a movie at the cinema...

I still don't understand why miners bring the weak whataboutism argument of "but gaming bad" into the argument, most people play a game for 2-4 hours at a time, using a 200-300w as opposed to someone with a mining business running a 1500W PSU and 10 GPUs.

[Moonzy]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

So you're totally ignoring the environmental impact because other things have an environmental impact so mining must be just fine, even though mining produces nothing, unless you're a crypto investor or miner.

I'm not, I'm agreeing that mining consumes absurd amount of energy

But clearly there's value in it, and you said so in the last sentence.

 

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

Thats ironic considering you're saying gaming is worse, yet gaming provides business for developers, reviewers, streamers, and gaming hardware companies.

That's my opinion, I stand firm that I'm not against gaming and would probably never vouch for its death

I just leave it alone, unless it bothers me (thus why the probably)

To put it simply, I don't have any strong feelings about it one way or the other, but it being a waste of resources and time is my opinion, in the context of comparing it with mining.

 

4 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

still don't understand why miners bring the weak whataboutism argument of "but gaming bad" into the argument

Because hypocrisy behind their justification for why mining should "die"

 

They support a cause but only if it's convenient for them, so we pointed out their hypocrisy and then they jump to another reason, and another reason...

[lewdicrous]

Mining is in the eyes of the beholder. Same goes for entertainment.

[Beerzerker]

And you'd think Nvidia would be screaming "The more you buy, the more you'll earn"!
You'd at least think Nvidia is shooting themselves in the foot with all this going on - Because in many ways they are.

[Kilrah]

24 minutes ago, Arika S said:

now, i don't agree with most of what has been said in this thread, but i think comparing murder in the first degree to mining (and it's side effects) is disingenuous to the point you're trying to make.

My comment was in response to "I have no problem taking money from criminals" and "why should I care about anone else", not mining.

But now it's clear they're depressed so no wonder they don't care about anything, it's not even related to the topic.

 

Although deaths from pollution and climate are a thing, and the whole "wasting energy takes lives" discourse there is today is kinda relevant. 

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

Although deaths from pollution and climate are a thing, and the whole "wasting energy takes lives" discourse there is today is kinda relevant. 

Speaking of murdering

Let's not make this too personal anyways, never leave a good taste in my mouth.

[Spotty]

There's been enough threads lately that have gone down the rabbit hole of "is cryptocurrency ethical?". Let's give it a rest, alright?

[RejZoR]

I hate ppl who multi-quote every fucking sentence. Learn to fuicking reply in paragraphs, jesus.