The new Intel Core i7 11700K is being sold already in Germany and Denmark, list price of the 11900K leaked

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

It's not really nonsense, though.

 

The 5800X does not exist in a vacuum. It is a very good product but its existence is made cloudier by the existence of the 5600X, which isn't really behind in gaming performance, and is priced too close to the 5900X, in which those really want/need the cores would be better off spending the extra on that or saving some coin and getting the 3900X.

 

Not to mention the 10700K (and the 10700F) has been on sale lately and on its own, is a better deal, which is also ironic considering the verdict on the 10700K is almost exactly the same as the 5800X when it was new.

 

No one should feel bad for buying a 5800X. It's a good product, but we also have to acknowledge AMD's market positioning of the chip. If the $150 difference between the 5600X and 5800X allows you to get a better GPU, I'd say spring for the GPU instead and go with the 5600X.

It’s kind of odd.  When the 5600/5800/5900 came out the word was the 5800 was the worst of the lot for the exact reasons you describe.  The 2 more cores over the 5600 weren’t really needed, and if they were the 5900 should be bought instead.  It seems like it’s the only buyable AMD processor atm though. 

[Fasterthannothing]

Honestly after seeing the benchmark's and prices I'm glad I just went ahead and got the i9 when Newegg had it for $450 as a bundle with a $200 motherboard making the CPU basically $250.

[D13H4RD]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s kind of odd.  When the 5600/5800/5900 came out the word was the 5800 was the worst of the lot for the exact reasons you describe.  The 2 more cores over the 5600 weren’t really needed, and if they were the 5900 should be bought instead.  It seems like it’s the only buyable AMD processor atm though. 

If the 5800X is indeed the one Zen 3 processor that can still be purchased with relative ease, that doesn't come as a surprise given what's been said about it versus the 5600X and 5900X, in that demand would obviously be lower for it for the reasons described earlier. Likewise, demand for the 5600X and 5900X would be higher given that they satisfy the gaming and productivity crowd respectively to a greater degree.

 

Which leaves the 5800X as the option for either a very specific audience who wants/needs more cores than the 5600X but can't step up fully to a 5900X and/or people who want to build/upgrade a Ryzen rig now and the 5800X is their only option.

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes I am aware of that, I'm also aware that every single one of those (or almost every, but I do doubt any are actually buying direct) get their stock from the same distributor, hence why they all have stock. Once that distributor is out of stock then all of them will collectively have no stock as well. Here we don't buy through Amazon either, that information is largely not relevant up until location actually does need to enter in.

 

I am however commenting over global supply at large and the persistent issue of Ryzen 5000 CPUs actually being in stock. However I am willing to accept that this state is becoming no longer an issue as production of certain custom SoC's would be reducing by this point.

 

P.S. Are you aware that not every comment or conversation is specifically about you or where you live? If your situation is largely better than global average then just be happy that it is, it's not actually a counter to a comment not specifically about where you are.

I see this stance a lot.  It’s a primary argument against global warming and why the Texas disaster was so telling.  People say “holy heck the ice caps are gone!” And get the reply of “who cares, it’s fine where I live”

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

If the 5800X is indeed the one Zen 3 processor that can still be purchased with relative ease, that doesn't come as a surprise given what's been said about it versus the 5600X and 5900X, in that demand would obviously be lower for it for the reasons described earlier. Likewise, demand for the 5600X and 5900X would be higher given that they satisfy the gaming and productivity crowd respectively to a greater degree.

 

Which leaves the 5800X as the option for either a very specific audience who wants/needs more cores than the 5600X but can't step up fully to a 5900X and/or people who want to build/upgrade a Ryzen rig now and the 5800X is their only option.

It implies though that even supplies of 5800s won’t last.  

[D13H4RD]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It implies though that even supplies of 5800s won’t last.  

I don't think it will last but that depends on how the ongoing water shortage and rationing over at TSMC goes. Either way, expect a slight reduction in shipments.

[porina]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

And still 14nm. Come on Intel, at least release something at 10nm if you can't go any lower than that. It's weird given they already have 10nm CPU's but are only mobile iirc.

To recap, Intel's 10nm woes have been long discussed but it seems like they finally got it working well starting with "10nm superfin" as used in mobile Tiger Lake. It has the IPC and the clock, where earlier 10nm had trouble scaling to higher clocks. Intel does seem they have limited 10nm capacity, so they're pushing that towards higher profit lines, specifically mobile and they're ramping server now. Desktop is the least valuable market, as much as it may hurt us in the enthusiast area.

 

Rocket Lake was added as a gap filler, taking the design intended for 10nm but building it on 14nm. If you really want 10nm on desktop, that's supposed to be coming end of year, but don't be surprised if there are further delays. That's the bigger generation jump, with DDR5 and other stuff.

 

21 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Which leaves the 5800X as the option for either a very specific audience who wants/needs more cores than the 5600X but can't step up fully to a 5900X and/or people who want to build/upgrade a Ryzen rig now and the 5800X is their only option.

Of the launched Zen 3 models so far, the 5800X is by far the most attractive to me. It's the "biggest" you can go with a single CCX, so behaves most like monolithic CPUs and saving the pain from split core groups. I think the wider problem is that AMD also has a production constraint and are also not giving much priority to desktop for much the same reasons as Intel. Would be so nice to have lower (cheaper) options at each core count, but it is probably last on their priority list.

[SFFDesigns]

I hope this MSRP isn't real. Intel needs to fight AMD in terms of value. 11700K at $300 or $350 is what Intel should do to be dominant in my opinion. 

 

If Intel's 8-core i7 competes against the 5600X in terms of pricing and SC performance is similar or close, then it's the better buy in my opinion. If they price it too high though then AMD's platform is better thanks to the upgrade path to higher core count chips. 

 

 

[RejZoR]

58 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes I am aware of that, I'm also aware that every single one of those (or almost every, but I do doubt any are actually buying direct) get their stock from the same distributor, hence why they all have stock. Once that distributor is out of stock then all of them will collectively have no stock as well. Here we don't buy through Amazon either, that information is largely not relevant up until location actually does need to enter in.

 

I am however commenting over global supply at large and the persistent issue of Ryzen 5000 CPUs actually being in stock. However I am willing to accept that this state is becoming no longer an issue as production of certain custom SoC's would be reducing by this point.

 

P.S. Are you aware that not every comment or conversation is specifically about you or where you live? If your situation is largely better than global average then just be happy that it is, it's not actually a counter to a comment not specifically about where you are.

Well, I specifically said they are available in Europe and gave you examples when you said they just aren't available. Are you aware everything doesn't revolve around USA either? It seems like every discussion about hardware just always ends up defaulting to US this and US that, like rest of the world just doesn't exist. Europe is actually a bigger market than USA, but for some reason everyone just seems to think Europe only consists of Germany and UK. And maybe token France...

 

As for stock, some have them in their own warehouses and some get them directly from suppliers. MindFactory, Caseking and ComputerUniverse most certainly have them in their own stock as they are one of Europe's largest computer hardware shops. There is no reason they'd rely on external stock for things that sell like hotcakes and can be assured they'll easily sell them at any time.

 

You can use Geizhals webpage which is sort of shop aggregator for Europe and see all the shops with stock. I even checked them individually and they have several in stock.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

I don't think it will last but that depends on how the ongoing water shortage and rationing over at TSMC goes. Either way, expect a slight reduction in shipments.

The solution for that one might be desalinization plants.  Army core of engineers does those and has done them in other countries.  Possibly what that executive order was about. 

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Well, I specifically said they are available in Europe and gave you examples when you said they just aren't available. Are you aware everything doesn't revolve around USA either? It seems like every discussion about hardware just always ends up defaulting to US this and US that, like rest of the world just doesn't exist. Europe is actually a bigger market than USA, but for some reason everyone just seems to think Europe only consists of Germany and UK. And maybe token France...

 

As for stock, some have them in their own warehouses and some get them directly from suppliers. MindFactory, Caseking and ComputerUniverse most certainly have them in their own stock as they are one of Europe's largest computer hardware shops. There is no reason they'd rely on external stock for things that sell like hotcakes and can be assured they'll easily sell them at any time.

 

You can use Geizhals webpage which is sort of shop aggregator for Europe and see all the shops with stock. I even checked them individually and they have several in stock.

Stock has become a smaller thing over the years though.  Stock costs money to hold so a lot of companies have gone after just-in-time inventory stuff, which has bitten some people lately.  Also stock still comes from someplace else.  A company with a large stockpile of product might have a larger sink so to speak, but if the sink isn’t being refilled it doesn’t much matter in the long run.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Bombastinator

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Stock has become a smaller thing over the years though.  Stock costs money to hold so a lot of companies have gone after just-in-time inventory stuff, which has bitten some people lately.  Also stock still comes from someplace else.  A company with a large stockpile of product might have a larger sink so to speak, but if the sink isn’t being refilled it doesn’t much matter in the long run.

Well, it matters. If you have 1000 pieces of RTX 3080 in your warehouse, those 1000 are ALL yours to sell. And they sell like hotcakes with sweetest glazing and dusted by pure golden dust. If someone else is supplying them, you may get 1000 or you may get just 10. Or even none.

[Bombastinator]

36 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Well, it matters. If you have 1000 pieces of RTX 3080 in your warehouse, those 1000 are ALL yours to sell. And they sell like hotcakes with sweetest glazing and dusted by pure golden dust. If someone else is supplying them, you may get 1000 or you may get just 10. Or even none.

That’s just it.  Over the years a lot of companies have been reducing that number from 1000 to more like 50.  Even 1000 though isn’t a lot of product even if there were 1000 companies all doing that.  A million cards is only something like a 5th of what got eaten online in a few seconds.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Well, I specifically said they are available in Europe and gave you examples when you said they just aren't available.

Yes in reply to me commenting on how generally impossible it is to actually buy the processor. General comment about availability which still seems to be true because I checked before commenting, you're reply "I am able to buy it". So I'll repeat that last part to what I said, just be happy you can.

 

Global supply still sucks, my local supply is even worse.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, RejZoR said:

As for stock, some have them in their own warehouses and some get them directly from suppliers. MindFactory, Caseking and ComputerUniverse most certainly have them in their own stock as they are one of Europe's largest computer hardware shops

Yes they have their own stock, sourced from a distributor. Once the distributor is out of stock their is no upstream supply and all of them will quickly have these products on backorder status. That's how supply chains work, I think you know this so I'm surprised you missed the point here on that one.

 

By direct that means buying directly from AMD, I'm sure none or almost none are doing that as that is very rare and would be for orders the sizes of Amazon or Newegg etc.

[Dabombinable]

7 hours ago, RejZoR said:

You do realize people in Europe buy things almost anywhere but on Amazon when it comes to such components? Caseking, ComputerUniverse, MindFactory, Cyberport and bunch of others. And they all have them in stock. Except Amazon which is allegedly getting them end of March.

Even in stock, the 5800X costs too much more than a 3700X, and whenn compared to a 3900X:

Spoiler

 

Seriously, the 3900X is a far better buy:

Spoiler

 

More of the same:

Spoiler

 

And even more:

Spoiler

 

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Yes in reply to me commenting on how generally impossible it is to actually buy the processor. General comment about availability which still seems to be true because I checked before commenting, you're reply "I am able to buy it". So I'll repeat that last part to what I said, just be happy you can.

 

Global supply still sucks, my local supply is even worse.

I guess entire Europe is just too "local"... :rolleyes:

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

I guess entire Europe is just too "local"... :rolleyes:

That was the whole point of the EU in the first place.  Common market.

[Brooksie359]

11 hours ago, RejZoR said:

People keep saying this nonsense. 5800X is superior to even 3900X except in all core scenario just because 3900X has more of them. Higher clock and higher IPC as well as more consistent higher clock boosting at same power consumption. If you're a gamer, 5800X is the shit and you have to be stupid not to opt for it. 5800X costs just 30€ more than 3900X. Again, if all core loads are not priority, 5800X is a better choice.

 

It's so strange still reading how everyone should pick Zen 2 even though Zen 3 is superior. Yet when Zen+ was released, everyone was rushing to upgrade even though tthat was the smallest difference of all evolutions. Bizarre...

If you are in situations that need amx fps like running high refreshrate 1080p games then yeah you would want a 5800x over the 3900x but if you are playing games that are going to be gpu bottlenecked with a 3900x then there is little point in get the 5800x. Honestly I would say the reason most people say the 5800x is a bad deal is because of the rest of the 5000 series lineup. If all you really want to do is run games really fast and you don't care much about multithreaded workloads then just say your money and get thr r5 5600x. If you need more cores then speed the extra 100 bucks and get 4 more cores than the 5800x with the 5900x. Granted I have a hard time finding the 5900x in stock but my point is that the pricing doesn't make a ton of sense when all cpus are in stock. 

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I guess entire Europe is just too "local"... :rolleyes:

Yes it is, just like mine is Oceania not New Zealand. Because we're talking supply chain not your local PC store or store chain. There's very few distributors in the world, most of them are global companies, so when I say if your distributors runs out then you're equally as screwed as everyone else is right now that means I'm talking about the Ingram Micro's and Westcon Group's of the world, the companies that actually matter here, not MindFactory (who are selling about 35k Ryzen CPUs a month).

 

https://be.ingrammicro.eu/ (not that I know how big they actually are operationally in the EU). My previous employment I was actually allowed to buy things through our account at cost which was a damn good deal, I can't anymore. But I've gotten things through Ingram Micro and Westcon Group directly at extremely good prices, wish I still could.

 

It doesn't take a lot of in-depth analysis to figure out what will happen to every single store/company you mentioned if the distributor of these runs out of stock, a very quick change from in stock to back order. You're also lucky they aren't pulling stock from the EU to satisfy other markets.

[RejZoR]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Yes it is, just like mine is Oceania not New Zealand. Because we're talking supply chain not your local PC store or store chain. There's very few distributors in the world, most of them are global companies, so when I say if your distributors runs out then you're equally as screwed as everyone else is right now that means I'm talking about the Ingram Micro's and Westcon Group's of the world, the companies that actually matter here, not MindFactory (who are selling about 35k Ryzen CPUs a month).

 

https://be.ingrammicro.eu/ (not that I know how big they actually are operationally in the EU). My previous employment I was actually allowed to buy things through our account at cost which was a damn good deal, I can't anymore. But I've gotten things through Ingram Micro and Westcon Group directly at extremely good prices, wish I still could.

 

It doesn't take a lot of in-depth analysis to figure out what will happen to every single store/company you mentioned if the distributor of these runs out of stock, a very quick change from in stock to back order. You're also lucky they aren't pulling stock from the EU to satisfy other markets.

Population of Oceania, 43 million, population of Europe, 748 million. Yeah, totally the same... Also who gives a shit who's a distributor? Are you buying from them or from retailers? And if you look at retailers now, they have them in stock and you can buy them.  But I guess being able to buy them just isn't good enough for you. Just stop it, jesus.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Also who gives a shit who's a distributor? Are you buying from them or from retailers?

You do when they run out, then you can't buy. You are literally burying your head in the sand by ignoring distributors, where stock comes from.

 

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

And if you look at retailers now, they have them in stock and you can buy them. But I guess being able to buy them just isn't good enough for you

Really, can I now? Are you sure about that?

 

https://www.computerlounge.co.nz/shop/components/processors/amd#!categoryId=259&page=1&q=&scid=-1&isListMode=false&Filters[0].Key=Sort&Filters[0].Value=1

 

Tell me again how I'm able to buy these CPUs? That 5800X that is Direct ship was in stock 2 left yesterday, I'm willing to bet if I ring up and ask how many are left in total it'll be between 1 and 10, probably 1.

 

More retailers here:

https://www.ascent.co.nz/category/cpu?products_brand_asc[refinementList][Category][0]=CPU&products_brand_asc[refinementList][Socket][0]=Socket AM4

https://www.extremepc.co.nz/components/CPU-Processors?mfp=path[541]

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/category/components/cpus/amd-desktop-cpu

 

"It's fine for me stop complaining. My specific situation disproves that global supply is a problem". Counter to literally every single news article and industry source right now. You do you man, just don't come back to me when stock dry's up basically over night unless supply is actually improving and you get it before that happens.

 

And no I'm not going to buy a 5800X, it's the worst option of all of them. No not a bad CPU, but I'm not going to buy it.

 

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

population of Europe, 748 million

Proportional product allocation is a thing you know.

[Stahlmann]

On 2/28/2021 at 11:38 AM, Moonzy said:

Hope Intel go for best perf per dollar, and not continue to sit on their high horse

The initial pricing here might be higher because they're launching this without permission, don't think there's any official MSRP yet?

 

 

I'm thinking of buying one, but only if it's decent value and not a unicorn like ryzen 5000

Depending where you live they might not even be unicorns anymore. The 5600X and 5800X are available to buy here in germany, albeit for 20-50€ over MSRP. But with today's market that's not that bad imo.

[Moonzy]

24 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Depending where you live they might not even be unicorns anymore. The 5600X and 5800X are available to buy here in germany, albeit for 20-50€ over MSRP. But with today's market that's not that bad imo.

I went shopping for a desktop just two weeks ago, the only ryzen 5000 available is the 5700x at $500, which is stupid for a 8 core CPU

[Loote]

20 hours ago, RejZoR said:

You can use Geizhals webpage which is sort of shop aggregator for Europe and see all the shops with stock. I even checked them individually and they have several in stock.

Woah, this looks very useful!

 

17 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

I went shopping for a desktop just two weeks ago, the only ryzen 5000 available is the 5700x at $500, which is stupid for a 8 core CPU

I think you meant 5800X?

The argument whether it is or isn't available, which moved to if it's going to be unavailable in a moment, should end with something like:
1. Basically unavailable in USA and many other parts of the world.
2. Basically available in Europe, though things might change quickly. It's been a week or two though so I am hopeful.
Going back to judging prices, where the mention of 5800X's unavailability was just an addition to deciding between 3900X and 5800X, it just depends on the individual situation of the person buying, as well as their requirements. There were some tests of 6 core Zen parts in regards to fps and a Zen 2 CPU only limits fps in some 1080p with top of the line GPUs, though many may wish to upgrade GPU only later. Thread heavy tasks and playing games on current GPUs should work bes on 3900X, especially above 1080p, super-high fps or other tasks requiring single-core speeds will benefit from newest Intel CPUs and Zen 3, in the end we are getting a better choice, an alternative which should mean Zen3 availability is better too.

I think 5900 and 5950 are getting much smaller supplies, but when 5600X and 5800X went out of stock people started ordering them too just to get a piece of the newest hottest generation of CPUs, now AMD seems unable to fulfil those orders so far and I suspect many 12/16 core parts were ordered by people who don't need that many cores.