Has long term bluetooth radiation been studied on VR headsets?

[tkitch]

11 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Chainmail?

[DelavorexIndustries]

On 3/1/2021 at 4:38 AM, Arika S said:

ok let's go through the wording for this

 

 

In English

"some people may possibly think there could be a possible link, maybe, that the potential to maybe increase (or not) the chance of developing something, maybe cancer, we don't know, in some people, maybe. We have no real proof of this maybe potentially being a real thing, but we need to maybe need to look into it more, just in case there is something that could, maybe, cause what we have hypothesized with no real proof. But we don't want to really confirm anything because we just do not know...but who know, maybe this is real? but maybe not in everyone all the time. Therefore we suggest the public freak out and start burning down potentially cancer causing 5g towers and also maybe destroying bluetooth items, maybe, at least until we can prove (or not) the link (if one exists) between RF radiation (or something else associated with bluetooth/wireless type signals) and health risks (if any exist)"

I don't expect everyone on the site to be a literary professor. If you understand what someone was trying to say let it be, if you need clarification ask tactfully.

[Arika]

12 minutes ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

I don't expect everyone on the site to be a literary professor. If you understand what someone was trying to say let it be, if you need clarification ask tactfully.

[Master Disaster]

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/wearable.html

[DelavorexIndustries]

21 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

To tinnitus by radiation? No. Radiation or radio frequencies are something thats already out of human ears effective area. Tinnitus is cause by continuous loud noise. Just the technology being wireless wouldn't cause that.

 

As for sleep cycle, there are already research done on the subject (as in I could find articles with simple google search). So from quick look, the effects are same as with reading or watching bright screen right before going to sleep.

 I understand there has already been research conducted into sleep cycles however as new research is conducted we will continue to learn more. As far as tinnitus goes, it is not caused by continuous loud noise; there is no known specific cause. Tinnitus is not actually an issue with the ear, it is an issue that occurs in the brain, possible neurologically. If you use google to conduct your research I would encourage using scholarly articles specifically. They are far more credible and citable than most "articles". Here are some links.

 

The New England Journal of Medicine - Tinnitus: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra013395

The Lancet - Tinnitus: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673613601427

Chronic Tinnitus: an Interdisciplinary Challenge: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3648891/

Tinnitus: Characteristics, Causes, Mechanisms, and Treatments: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686891/

Why Is There No Cure for Tinnitus?: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6691100/

Characterization of Tinnitus by Tinnitus Patients: https://pubs.asha.org/doi/abs/10.1044/jshd.5503.439

 

[Pixel5]

bluetooth is literally blocked by a few drops of water, if you lower any 2.4Ghz device into water you will immediately lose connection and guess what most of your body is made of?

 

this is precisely why the first generation bluetooth headsets had connection problems on one side, they were working like this that one side is connected to the phone and gets the stereo signal and then transmits a mono signal to the other ear piece.

 

This signal needs to go around the head because its immediately blocked by the water in the skin and this cause a bunch of connection issues.

[LogicalDrm]

1 minute ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

 I understand there has already been research conducted into sleep cycles however as new research is conducted we will continue to learn more. As far as tinnitus goes, it is not caused by continuous loud noise; there is no known specific cause. Tinnitus is not actually an issue with the ear, it is an issue that occurs in the brain, possible neurologically.

I'm not in medical field and since this isn't issue for me or anyone close to me, I haven't researched it more. However, I doubt radiation from weak source like BT headpiece will be noted as cause. Otherwise there would be more links with those who otherwise wouldn't have it.

 

The testing would need to be done by using headpiece without any sound to rule out the effect of sound waves.

 

1 minute ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

If you use google to conduct your research I would encourage using scholarly articles specifically. They are far more credible and citable than most "articles". Here are some links.

I do quick checks with Google. Its good tool overall. I do know about scholar, but at least for now when I have ability to read actual peer reviewed journals, just using basic Google to give me abstracts or ReasearchGate links is enough.

 

As for peer reviewed articles as a whole, they may be more citable, but not more correct. Being peer-reviewed really only means that its reviewed to be within standards for journal its published in. So just linking to article and saying its more correct than some other article because its peer-reviewed isn't quite how things go in scientific community.

 

(I do have MSc from Geology and Mineralogy and working for BA for Land Survey Engineering)

[DelavorexIndustries]

18 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

I'm not in medical field and since this isn't issue for me or anyone close to me, I haven't researched it more. However, I doubt radiation from weak source like BT headpiece will be noted as cause. Otherwise there would be more links with those who otherwise wouldn't have it.

 

The testing would need to be done by using headpiece without any sound to rule out the effect of sound waves.

 

I do quick checks with Google. Its good tool overall. I do know about scholar, but at least for now when I have ability to read actual peer reviewed journals, just using basic Google to give me abstracts or ReasearchGate links is enough.

 

As for peer reviewed articles as a whole, they may be more citable, but not more correct. Being peer-reviewed really only means that its reviewed to be within standards for journal its published in. So just linking to article and saying its more correct than some other article because its peer-reviewed isn't quite how things go in scientific community.

 

(I do have MSc from Geology and Mineralogy and working for BA for Land Survey Engineering)

They have conducted testing in that manner actually. I never said BT would be the cause, but the effects it has on the condition could be negative or positive. Some of those links discuss the issue. The reason I includes them however was to address that Tinnitus is specifically not caused by “continuous loud noise”.

 

Otherwise I’m not sure why you included your credentials as they are not associated with the topic unless you were just trying to say you have experience conducting research.

[LogicalDrm]

8 minutes ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

They have conducted testing in that manner actually. I never said BT would be the cause, but the effects it has on the condition could be negative or positive. Some of those links discuss the issue. The reason I includes them however was to address that Tinnitus is specifically not caused by “continuous loud noise”.

 

Otherwise I’m not sure why you included your credentials as they are not associated with the topic unless you were just trying to say you have experience conducting research.

Including credentials was to specifically to note that I'm well aware of how to do research. I've used that experience to debunk some more flammable threads/articles/videos posted here. It was direct response to you dissing my choice to use Google for quick checks on subjects. Like I had already in my original post:

Quote

as in I could find articles with simple google search

I didn't make any note about what kind of articles they were, you just made assumption that it was some mainstream news site article about the subject. // E: Also, that was particularly about sleep cycles, not about tinnitus. The tinnitus part was purely my assumption based on common/average knowledge.

 

As for the rest of your post, like I said, I'm not researched the thing more. And I probably wont. Easier for me to just stay out of that side of discussion.

Edited March 2, 2021 by LogicalDrm

[Master Disaster]

10 minutes ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

They have conducted testing in that manner actually. I never said BT would be the cause, but the effects it has on the condition could be negative or positive. Some of those links discuss the issue. The reason I includes them however was to address that Tinnitus is specifically not caused by “continuous loud noise”.

 

Otherwise I’m not sure why you included your credentials as they are not associated with the topic unless you were just trying to say you have experience conducting research.

Sorry but you are just plain wrong. Exposure to loud noise over long periods has been established as one of many causes of Tinnitus, any noise above 85dBA has the potential to cause NIHL (Noise Induced Hearing Loss) and the louder it gets from 85dBA the faster the damage will happen. While Tinnitus is not the only symptom of NIHL it is one of them.

 

https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/noise-induced-hearing-loss

 

I'm confused what point you're trying to make here. Are you saying using in ear devices doesn't cause Tinnitus but the radiation from BT specifically can?

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

The New England Journal of Medicine - Tinnitus: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra013395

Paywalled however even the intro mentions subjective and objective Tinnitus

1 hour ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

The Lancet - Tinnitus: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673613601427

 

Quote

The table shows known risk factors for developing tinnitus and associated conditions. The main risk factor is hearing loss,⁹ but this association is not simple or straightforward;³ some people with troublesome tinnitus have audiometrically normal hearing and, conversely, many people with hearing loss do not report tinnitus. People who report high levels of both occupational and recreational noise exposure are more likely to have tinnitus.⁹ Other factors such as obesity, smoking, alcohol consumption, previous head injuries, history of arthritis, and hypertension have been suggested as possible risk factors

1 hour ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

Chronic Tinnitus: an Interdisciplinary Challenge: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3648891/

Shows accute hearing loss can cause Tinnitus.

1 hour ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

Tinnitus: Characteristics, Causes, Mechanisms, and Treatments: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686891/

 

Quote

Natural course

Noise-induced tinnitus can be acute or chronic. Acute tinnitus can last from a few minutes to a few weeks after noise exposure.²⁴ In some cases, tinnitus has a gradual onset and several years can pass before an intermittent, low-intensity tinnitus becomes bothersome.²⁵ Spontaneous remission by natural habituation is experienced by more than three-quarters of sufferers. Habituation occurs within the CNS, whereas adaptation involves a peripheral sensory organ.⁸ For those in whom the condition worsens, the tinnitus intensity increases over time but its pitch tends to remain stable.²² If tinnitus persists for more than 2 years, it is considered permanent and irreversible.²⁶ However, chronicity is not associated with a favorable response to treatment.²⁷

1 hour ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

Why Is There No Cure for Tinnitus?: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6691100/

Doesn't go into causality at all.

1 hour ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

Characterization of Tinnitus by Tinnitus Patients: https://pubs.asha.org/doi/abs/10.1044/jshd.5503.439

 

Quote

(b) the prevalence of tinnitus in patients with noise-induced hearing loss (NIHL) was 30% for males and only 3% for females;

 

Did you even read the sources you cited?

[DelavorexIndustries]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Sorry but you are just plain wrong. Exposure to loud noise over long periods has been established as one of many causes of Tinnitus, any noise above 85dBA has the potential to cause NIHL (Noise Induced Hearing Loss) and the louder it gets from 85dBA the faster the damage will happen. While Tinnitus is not the only symptom of NIHL it is one of them.

 

https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/noise-induced-hearing-loss

 

I'm confused what point you're trying to make here. Are you saying using in ear devices doesn't cause Tinnitus but the radiation from BT specifically can?

Please include your source for that. Hearing loss may be associated with Tinnitus but is not a cause of Tinnitus. Tinnitus is a problem that does not occur in the ear, it occurs in the brain. Hearing loss is a problem that occurs in the ear when associated with loud noises. Hearing loss can also occur due to neurological issues like exposure to JP-8 which is often associated with Tinnitus as well. In fact, when diagnosing Tinnitus one of the key factors is to first ensure that it is not actually hearing loss instead. Hearing loss has been incorrectly associated with causing Tinnitus due to the occurrences of hearing loss related TBI's. TBI's have been directly correlated to Tinnitus.

[Master Disaster]

17 minutes ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

Please include your source for that. Hearing loss may be associated with Tinnitus but is not a cause of Tinnitus. Tinnitus is a problem that does not occur in the ear, it occurs in the brain. Hearing loss is a problem that occurs in the ear when associated with loud noises. Hearing loss can also occur due to neurological issues like exposure to JP-8 which is often associated with Tinnitus as well. In fact, when diagnosing Tinnitus one of the key factors is to first ensure that it is not actually hearing loss instead. Hearing loss has been incorrectly associated with causing Tinnitus due to the occurrences of hearing loss related TBI's. TBI's have been directly correlated to Tinnitus.

We're not talking about hearing loss, you specifically said that exposure to loud noise does not cause Tinnitus. I've literally posted quotes from the articles you provided (including cited sources) that disagree with you.

 

NIHL is called NIHL because its noise induced and Tinnitus is a known and very well documented symptom of NIHL.

 

Fun fact: its entirely possible for something to have more than one cause. If you had said "exposure to loud noise is not the only cause of Tinnitus" then we wouldn't be having this discussion but you didn't, you made a categorical statement that loud noise does not cause Tinnitus.

 

Also I'll just throw this here as well - https://www.msdmanuals.com/en-gb/professional/ear,-nose,-and-throat-disorders/approach-to-the-patient-with-ear-problems/tinnitus

Quote

Subjective tinnitus is caused by an abnormality somewhere in the auditory pathway. Objective tinnitus is caused by an actual noise produced in a vascular structure near the ear. Loud noise, aging, Meniere disease, and drugs are the most common causes of subjective tinnitus

 

[DelavorexIndustries]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Paywalled however even the intro mentions subjective and objective Tinnitus

 

Shows accute hearing loss can cause Tinnitus.

It does not show hearing loss can CAUSE Tinnitus. It shows treatment options of Tinnitus when acute hearing loss/hearing impairments are present with Tinnitus. The keyword being CAUSE, Tinnitus for years was improperly labeled as being caused due to hearing loss or noise exposure. That is false, and we see it when the statistics of those experiencing Tinnitus are largely unaffected by hearing loss. I worked with both the CHARM study as well as service members. Most patients experience Tinnitus at a younger age. Even service members not exposed to extended periods of loud noises (we class them based off their profession in the service) often experience Tinnitus. 

 

Hearing loss is however most definitely a RISK FACTOR (not cause) of Tinnitus. Those who experience hearing loss are often placed in situations that affect the brain adversely. Commonly TBI's and exposure to harmful chemicals over periods of time seem to increase the chances of one experiencing Tinnitus. Handling JP-8 - a type of fuel used in military vehicles - is a cause of hearing loss for many of those in the service. It does not affect ones ability to hear sounds however, it affects the brains ability to interpret the sounds its hears. This results in acute hearing loss, where one can not make sense of speech. All of these are risk factors, however they are not causes. The cause is still not entirely understood, however it occurs in the brain. A treatment for Tinnitus may include treating hearing loss, this does not mean the hearing loss is a cause of Tinnitus. When we do treat hearing loss successfully, it does not always positivity affect Tinnitus.

 

I understand the links I used vary in information, and address a wide span of topics when speaking of Tinnitus. I do not have first hand experience with every single detail contained within these articles, we conduct our own studies. I included those articles because they were not written from a journalists perspective created for casual readers interested in the topic. I did not mean to bash on your use of google either as it is a search engine, not inherently wrong. The content found on it may be wrong, I just would not set my eyes on the first article written by VICE by a teenager that uses outdated or incorrect information.

[DelavorexIndustries]

10 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

We're not talking about hearing loss, you specifically said that exposure to loud noise does not cause Tinnitus. I've literally posted quotes from the articles you provided (including cited sources) that disagree with you.

 

NIHL is called NIHL because its noise induced and Tinnitus is a known and very well documented symptom of NIHL.

 

Fun fact: its entirely possible for something to have more than one cause. If you had said "exposure to loud noise is not the only cause of Tinnitus" then we wouldn't be having this discussion but you didn't, you made a categorical statement that loud noise does not cause Tinnitus.

 

Also I'll just throw this here as well - https://www.msdmanuals.com/en-gb/professional/ear,-nose,-and-throat-disorders/approach-to-the-patient-with-ear-problems/tinnitus

 

I would agree with you a decade ago. A ringing in the ears due to hearing loss does not become Tinnitus. Labeling Tinnitus a symptom of noise induced hearing loss would be common but inaccurate. I appreciate your link, but it's information comes from a study that was not specific to the condition. They studied a wide variety of conditions, and placed a large focus on those associated with hearing. Very few studies have been funded to extensively study Tinnitus and because of this a large amount of information is inaccurate. Those studies that have been conducted virtually re-defined the entire condition.

 

Fun Fact: Saying "exposure to loud noise is not the only cause of Tinnitus" is still a categorical statement.

[Master Disaster]

40 minutes ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

I would agree with you a decade ago. A ringing in the ears due to hearing loss does not become Tinnitus. Labeling Tinnitus a symptom of noise induced hearing loss would be common but inaccurate.

What? So you somehow think that 30% of males who suffer from NIHL reporting Tinnitus as a symptom is inaccurate? The symptoms of a condition don't have to be directly linked to the cause. If people are commonly reporting something then its not inaccurate to call it a symptom, that's why secondary symptoms exist.

 

45 minutes ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

I appreciate your link, but it's information comes from a study that was not specific to the condition. They studied a wide variety of conditions, and placed a large focus on those associated with hearing. Very few studies have been funded to extensively study Tinnitus and because of this a large amount of information is inaccurate. Those studies that have been conducted virtually re-defined the entire condition.

You mean the ones you posted that all disagree with you? It's up to you to show how its inaccurate since you're the one saying all the evidence (including your own links) are all wrong.

45 minutes ago, DelavorexIndustries said:

 

Fun Fact: Saying "exposure to loud noise is not the only cause of Tinnitus" is still a categorical statement.

Correct, but its also accurate where as "exposure to loud noise does not cause Tinnitus" is inaccurate. Haven't you ever been to a nightclub?

[DelavorexIndustries]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

What? So you somehow think that 30% of males who suffer from NIHL reporting Tinnitus as a symptom is inaccurate? The symptoms of a condition don't have to be directly linked to the cause. If people are commonly reporting something then its not inaccurate to call it a symptom, that's why secondary symptoms exist.

 

You mean the ones you posted that all disagree with you? It's up to you to show how its inaccurate since you're the one saying all the evidence (including your own links) are all wrong.

Correct, but its also accurate where as "exposure to loud noise does not cause Tinnitus" is inaccurate. Haven't you ever been to a nightclub?

The act of labeling it so would be common but inaccurate. The 30 percent statistic is more or less true - varying by study - but it is not a symptom of the condition. Experiencing brief periods of ringing after loud noise is no longer considered Tinnitus as that issue starts in the ear, rather than the brain. Tinnitus now specifically relates to the condition of the brain.

[Glenwing]

Please move the Tinnitus discussion to private message (or I can split it into a new thread if preferred). It isn't the topic of this thread.

[Rauten]

Electroboom actually did what I felt was a really good video on this subject talking about 5G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4pxw4tYeCU

 

TL;DW: We are constantly being bombarded by EM emissions/radiations that are orders of magnitude more powerful that BT/5G. These emissions are known as "visible light".
So no, BT/5G won't give you cancer.

[Master Disaster]

43 minutes ago, Glenwing said:

Please move the Tinnitus discussion to private message (or I can split it into a new thread if preferred). It isn't the topic of this thread.

Nah, I'm done.

 

@DelavorexIndustriesNice to be able to have a debate with someone and it not end in ad hom or flaming

[LogicalDrm]

6 minutes ago, SGT-AMD said:

"Most people who seek medical help for tinnitus experience it as subjective, constant sound like constant ringing in the ears or a buzzing sound in the ear, and most have some degree of hearing loss. Things that cause hearing loss (and tinnitus) include loud noise, medications that damage the nerves in the ear (ototoxic drugs), impacted earwax, middle ear problems (such as infections and vascular tumors), and aging. Tinnitus can also be a symptom of Meniere's disease, a disorder of the balance mechanism in the inner ear."

Source:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/tinnitus-ringing-in-the-ears-and-what-to-do-about-it

 

I have had tinnitus since I was in a car accident in 1980.

It is there, and for the most part, I have learned to ignore it.

For me, it is a constant white noise, and everyone is different.

I will be going to a ent doctor in the near future, so we will see what happens.

If you read further, I already acknowledged that my knowledge on the subject isn't perfect. But I do stand behind my point that weak radiation source is not likely cause, not even in long-term use. But there might be new info after some 5-10 years of people wearing airpods all the time.

[RejZoR]

On 3/1/2021 at 5:21 AM, DrMacintosh said:

non-ionizing radiation cannot cause cancer, period.  

Not in way ionizing radiation can which basically craps everything up very quickly. But our whole body runs on weak electrical impulses and if we constantly have interference around us, have there been any long enough term studies to throw that away?

[MS-DOS]

On 3/2/2021 at 6:02 PM, SGT-AMD said:

A cellphone has more output than a bluetooth device, depending how far away you are from the site.

I was quoting that article for the causes of Tinnitus, as loud noises are only part of the puzzle,

 

What if i enable plane mode? I disable wireless, bt and enable plane mode for VR

 

About tinnitus, mine on left ear is high pitched, i guess the classic tinnitus sound, this one for more than 7 years i think

 

a new one on the right hear since a year ago when i was lockdown (well i still am because i dont go out) where there is a low rumble noise, it oscilates

 

when i for instance use the hair drier, the low rumble becomes noticeable for a while, so it seems it reacts to sound

[RoseLuck462]

Radiation that is harmful is UV, which the sun creates.

 

Wifi, 5g, and Bluetooth is too long waved to be harmful.

[SpecialService]

Either wear a tin foil hat or don't use electricity, fire bad!