Top-rated multi-rail Enermax PSU RMA'd for the second time??!!

[tarbaby007]

Enermax Revolution D.F. 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

 

So I purchased this ^^ Enermax PSU from New Egg because of the recommendation of the cultist list. It clicked and the fan tried to spin, then nothing. Another crap PSU from Thermaltake works on the same system just fine.

 

So I RMA'd through New Egg, and installed the replacement today. Same dang thing. Put the Thermaltake back in, runs like a charm.

 

What gives??? What are the odds I've gotten two duds in a row of a unit that's top-rated on the cultist list? What might I be missing???

 

According to PC Part Picker, my system draws only 369 watts: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CJpFp2

[aisle9]

Without challenging the tier list or my own standing wisdom that you can't generalize an entire brand, I'm going to challenge both anyway:

 

Enermax may well be using amazing components in there, but their quality control is and always has been shit. I have never bought an Enermax product--including cases, AIOs and PSUs--that hasn't just been total garbage in terms of build quality or QA (or both).

 

So, yeah, I'd RMA it again, maybe ask Newegg if you can get a different PSU entirely. They probably just got a bad batch from Enermax...but really, when has anyone ever not gotten a bad batch from Enermax?

[Vishera]

24 minutes ago, tarbaby007 said:

What gives??? What are the odds I've gotten two duds in a row of a unit that's top-rated on the cultist list? What might I be missing???

They gave you back the faulty unit you sent first.

[Vishera]

16 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Enermax may well be using amazing components in there, but their quality control is and always has been shit. I have never bought an Enermax product--including cases, AIOs and PSUs--that hasn't just been total garbage in terms of build quality or QA (or both).

Every Enermax PSU i have ever had failed -_-

[Guest]

1 hour ago, tarbaby007 said:

Enermax Revolution D.F. 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

 

So I purchased this ^^ Enermax PSU from New Egg because of the recommendation of the cultist list. It clicked and the fan tried to spin, then nothing. Another crap PSU from Thermaltake works on the same system just fine.

 

So I RMA'd through New Egg, and installed the replacement today. Same dang thing. Put the Thermaltake back in, runs like a charm.

 

What gives??? What are the odds I've gotten two duds in a row of a unit that's top-rated on the cultist list? What might I be missing???

 

According to PC Part Picker, my system draws only 369 watts: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CJpFp2

Did you use all of the cables that came with the Enermax?  You didn't use any of the Thermaltake cables, did you?

 

[tarbaby007]

7 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Did you use all of the cables that came with the Enermax?  You didn't use any of the Thermaltake cables, did you?

 

No, the Thermaltake unit wasn't modular but the Enermax was, so we can eliminate that variable. Smart question, though!

[tarbaby007]

8 hours ago, Vishera said:

Every Enermax PSU i have ever had failed -_-

Dang. Wish I'd known, but I trusted the list... which begs the question... why is Enermax so high on the cultist list in the first place???

 

And their website offers zero answers or support, and comes up in Chinese anyways, with no apparent button to change to English. Not much of an attempt to service non-Chinese customers.

[tarbaby007]

8 hours ago, Vishera said:

They gave you back the faulty unit you sent first.

Funny! They did a good job repackaging and shrink-wrapping it again.

[Vishera]

1 minute ago, tarbaby007 said:

Dang. Wish I'd known, but I trusted the list... which begs the question... why is Enermax so high on the cultist list in the first place???

 

And their website offers zero answers or support, and comes up in Chinese anyways, with no apparent button to change to English. Not much of an attempt to service non-Chinese customers.

The best way to get support from Enermax is through the store you bought the product from.

[tarbaby007]

9 hours ago, aisle9 said:

Without challenging the tier list or my own standing wisdom that you can't generalize an entire brand, I'm going to challenge both anyway:

 

Enermax may well be using amazing components in there, but their quality control is and always has been shit. I have never bought an Enermax product--including cases, AIOs and PSUs--that hasn't just been total garbage in terms of build quality or QA (or both).

 

So, yeah, I'd RMA it again, maybe ask Newegg if you can get a different PSU entirely. They probably just got a bad batch from Enermax...but really, when has anyone ever not gotten a bad batch from Enermax?

Ouch. Guess I'd be crazy to RMA for a replacement and should just go for a 100% refund instead, and look for another unit. Thank goodness for New Egg and their easy paid return policy.

 

And I'm planning on using the tier list to find the next best unit for my budget, but honestly, it just got harder to trust it, and your experience here only validates that.

[tarbaby007]

2 minutes ago, Vishera said:

The best way to get support from Enermax is through the store you bought the product from.

Yup. Thank goodness for New Egg and their generous paid return policy.

[boghubodaghi]

I have an Enermax Revolution DF 650 and it has been running fine so far. Even though it's not likely, you still can be THAT unlucky. Or is it that the RMA division messed up something? 

[aisle9]

6 hours ago, tarbaby007 said:

Ouch. Guess I'd be crazy to RMA for a replacement and should just go for a 100% refund instead, and look for another unit. Thank goodness for New Egg and their easy paid return policy.

 

And I'm planning on using the tier list to find the next best unit for my budget, but honestly, it just got harder to trust it, and your experience here only validates that.

The list here is very, very good. Great, even, but that doesn’t stop me from disagreeing with it once in a very blue moon. Enermax is one place where I do. Enermax’s QA clusterfrags would prevent me from buying any PSU of theirs ever again, no matter how good the internals.

[Gorilla Warfare]

The list is just a list and that's it , a platform of tiered options. Do your own research before making the plunge on a new PSU. Many sites have a so called list and they all have some major differences. I never used a list , I looked into many reviews by customers and professionals.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, tarbaby007 said:

Dang. Wish I'd known, but I trusted the list... which begs the question... why is Enermax so high on the cultist list in the first place???

 

And their website offers zero answers or support, and comes up in Chinese anyways, with no apparent button to change to English. Not much of an attempt to service non-Chinese customers.

Enermax and Antec used to be the best you could buy.  But like a lot of Asian companies, they're "family owned".  And when that company gets handed down to offspring that just doesn't give a crap, things go South.

 

It saddens me.  Some of the companies that I used to buy parts from because they were the best you could get, have gone to complete shit.

 

[Juular]

On 2/26/2021 at 3:13 AM, aisle9 said:

Enermax may well be using amazing components in there, but their quality control is and always has been shit.

Enermax doesn't manufacture or QC these PSUs, that's the job for the OEM, which is CWT for this unit, and they manufacture PSUs for shitton of other brands, including Corsair, Thermaltake and so on. Without guessing what went wrong, if this PSU is still your best priced option i'd just let Newegg do their job, buy another one, if it's faulty too then move on, maybe they have some faulty batch or this batch were stored in non appropriate conditions. Or just get some other PSU, Enermax Revo DF is not the only one tier A PSU from that list, Thermaltake GF1 for example is pretty much almost the same thing (except for multi-rail) and it often goes very cheap, or maybe Super Flower Leadex III if it isn't shipping from China.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Juular said:

Enermax doesn't manufacture 

They used to.    That factory closed.  Would have loved to buy it, but I couldn't find anyone interested.

 

11 hours ago, Juular said:

or QC these PSUs, that's the job for the OEM, which is CWT for this unit, and they manufacture PSUs for shitton of other brands, including Corsair, Thermaltake and so on.

That's not completely true.  SOP and QC is the responsibility of the client and there aren't always product engineers from every client on site during their production runs.  The OEM's factory simply provides the labor and the equipment.

First:  You have several lines at the factory.  Some have standard wave solder machines, but it's harder to control the temperature and percentage of  of these and this can be problematic with densely populated PCBs.  The better lines have IR reflow soldering.  Which has much better temperature control (no cold solder joints and no overheating components) and doesn't require the flux spray.  But you still end up with flux because there's still a number of hand soldered components.   You also have different test stations on different lines.  The better ones have Chroma 8000's, then 6000's, then the bulk of them just have TechRed and SunMoon stations.  Corsair insists on using 8000's for any Gold and up products, which actually caused a delay in producing RMx in Vietnam as we had to wait for a dozen Chroma 8000 racks to get shipped from Taiwan to Vietnam.

 

It's up to the clients' QC team (we actually call the "PE" team, or "Product Engineers".  This is different than an R&D engineer as the product is already "engineered") to establish the SOP and make the jigs that will hold the larger parts in place as they go down the line, and set up a "shop floor system" (a system where each operator on the line scans the product to show that they did their part before handing the product off to the next person).  This is done starting with the Pre-PVT and PVT (production validation) stages and then "supervised" during MP.  PVT is the stage done after the design validation stage.  DVT isn't done on a production line.  Everything is done by hand, so you can't establish an SOP here.

 

Any way... Those PE guys catch stuff like this:

(Two inductors touching)

 

(Two pins connected with wave solder)

 

(The curling of the insulation pad shows that the screwdriver's torque setting may be too high.)

 

That was just from the last couple emails in my Inbox. 

Anyway.. That's why it bugs the crap out of me when a OEM outsources PCBA.  Your guys can't be at two places at once.  So you can "audit" the PCBA factory before PVT, but you can't be there DURING the PCBA manufacturing process because it usually happens the day before Pre-PVTT or PVT starts, your MP start dates, etc.

 

You also define whether or not DMTBF (demonstrated MTBF) is performed (anyone other than a tier 1 supplier like Flextronics or Delta doesn't do this by default) and how long/hot the burn in chambers are.  This is somewhere some companies will cut corners because the client pays the electric bill.  Obviously, longer/hotter burn in requires more power, so that cuts into your margins.  Also, to burn in longer and maintain three shifts, you need more burn in chambers.  These take up a lot of space and not every factory has room for them.

 

And then you have the OQC (Outgoing Quality Control) stage.  This is like a "full time OOBE" job.  A unit is grabbed off of each pallet coming out of the factory and opened up.  The units are powered up, cables counted.. even the box is inspected.  That's how I know when someone leaves an Amazon review saying "cables missing", etc. it's because Amazon threw someone else's return back into inventory.  Which happens all of the time to everyone, unfortunately.  The amount of used stuff I've received from Amazon isn't even funny.

That said, just because you don't have a PE team, doesn't mean there is no QC.  But the QC is managed by the project lead for the factory.  And since he works for the factory, he's going to make sure that the minimal is done in order to save money.

At Ultra, we had one PE.
At BFG, we had ZERO PE.  (I was the only PSU person for everything)  This bit me in the ass once when Topower changed a resistor on the power good signal circuit which changed the power good signal timing.  I mean... it's not something on the core component list so Topower could "legally" change it without an ECN (Engineering Change Notice), but everyone blamed me. 
At Corsair, we have two (PSU specific, of course) PE's on the ground in China, one in Vietnam, and one back at HQ that works as a "coordinator/manager".  He used to "float" from factory to factory, but since COVID, he's been stuck at home.

 

If you want to save money, you forego the shop floor system.  You use the cheaper ATEs.  You skip DMTBF.  You use a lower burn in temperature and duration.  You don't do the OQC.  That's why you can have two products with the same "platform" and one has a failure rate of < .01% while the other has a failure rate of 2%.

[Juular]

@jonnyGURUWow ! That's one hell of a long-ass post, i became a bit smarter today, more of this shit please ! Or just make a YT channel to chatter about random stuff when you have a minute of free time, like Louis Rossmann, it would be very interesting to see all the stuff about PSUs from designing to manufacturing and QC from the other side of the veil.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Juular said:

@jonnyGURUWow ! That's one hell of a long-ass post, i became a bit smarter today, more of this shit please ! Or just make a YT channel to chatter about random stuff when you have a minute of free time, like Louis Rossmann, it would be very interesting to see all the stuff about PSUs from designing to manufacturing and QC from the other side of the veil.

I kind of do want to do videos.  One of the ones I'm really jonesing to do is to measure the temperature of T1 in an SF600 Gold at 80% load in a 40° chamber.  Then swap in a Noctua NF-A9 fan (using a NA-FC1 controller to make sure it has the exact same fan curve as the SF's DC fan, of course) and do the test again and film the PSU either tripping off because of OCP or completely failing due to transformer saturation.   

Been seeing too many people putting Noctua fans in their PSUs and those are people I am more than happy to shot "YOUR WARRANTY IS VOID!" from the rooftops.