NVIDIA releases CMP lineup and reduces hashing rates on GeForce cards

[Justaphysicsnerd]

How the meeting at Nvidia would have been like :

 

Jared from Marketing : Hey guys, remember how we launched a different sku of mining only GPUs back in 2016-17 to fill the coffers of our emerald overlord help ease the GPU scarcity ?
Let's One up That !

Karen from marketing : How ?
Jared : Just stop production of Gaming GPUs and sell bare processors to minors miners ! 

[Moonzy]

2 minutes ago, porina said:

There are many use cases where GPUs can be used without display output

Yeah, but it might eat into their quadro line and I wonder what they'll do then

Unless you need the quadro drivers and what not, I guess

 

3 minutes ago, porina said:

Made up numbers but let's say 10% of gamers can find GPUs for a new build, if they increase this to 30% it will still be a big improvement even if there will still be a lot more needed. It doesn't have to be a 100% solution to be worth doing. People are welcome to buy unavailable AMD GPUs if they hate nvidia so much.

I suspect they're doing this because gamers are yelling at them for doing nothing, so they respond with this

If the GPU is still insufficient, they'll go yell at Nvidia instead

Gamers don't understand that there's a supply demand due to covid, and just wants someone to blame, if you ask me

 

4 minutes ago, porina said:

wonder what % of PC gamers either mine or have ever mined, for it to be a big enough reason for it to be a significant buying decision. I'd guess it is a very small proportion, but obviously non-zero

Not much, probably

but this and the last bubble got a chunk interested in it I reckon, since I was pulled in in by the 2017 bubble

[porina]

3 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

Yeah, but it might eat into their quadro line and I wonder what they'll do then

Unless you need the quadro drivers and what not, I guess

Like Leadeater said there's already folding and Boinc that people on this forum may wish to expand their capability in. Quadros don't add value in that space.

 

3 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

but this and the last bubble got a chunk interested in it I reckon, since I was pulled in in by the 2017 bubble

Same. I was in it much more that time around. Actually my unspent crypto from 1st time around is worth far more than anything I can mine right now. If I can be bothered to move it to a central location I could buy something with it before it crashes again.

[Moonzy]

12 minutes ago, Justaphysicsnerd said:

How the meeting at Nvidia would have been like :

 

Jared from Marketing : Hey guys, remember how we launched a different sku of mining only GPUs back in 2016-17 to fill the coffers of our emerald overlord help ease the GPU scarcity ?
Let's One up That !

Karen from marketing : How ?
Jared : Just stop production of Gaming GPUs and sell bare processors to minors miners ! 

I'm actually dying of laughter because just two months ago people were outraged at Nvidia, suspecting them of selling GPU directly to miners

 

Now they're doing it openly and gamers are rejoicing

Guess where the dies for the miner cards are gonna come from?

[Blademaster91]

17 hours ago, Middcore said:

First of all, Nvidia doesn't care about you and neither does any other multi-billion-dollar tech company, but they employ people whose entire job is to create the illusion that they do. They come up with moves like this, and some of the replies here are proof that sometimes their BS actually works.

 

But even if Nvidia actually did want more cards to be available for gamers, this would be a completely ass-backwards way to achieve that goal. All this will do is increase demand for the gaming GPU's by both gamers and miners, because the miners won't want the gimped loser suckface CMP cards that are bad at actually mining. At the same time it will make the gaming GPU's more scarce because some portion of the fab output is now going to the loser suckface CMP cards (although it wouldn't surprise me if Nvidia only makes like 5 to say they did since this is all a PR move anyway). 

 

Wouldn't surprise me a bit to see prices of the Nvidia gaming GPU's actually go up even more after this. 

I agree nerfing the 3060 from mining just seems like a marketing attempt from Nvidia to make it seem like they care about the intended market. I find it hilarious that Nvidia says in their blog the geforce cards are intended for gaming, yet they're selling directly to miners, and the AIBs likely are as well, Zotac promoted mining on their twitter.

I remember Nvidia sold mining cards during the 2017-2018 mining boom, those aren't very useful and don't have any resale value except to other miners, there are workarounds to get a GPU lacking a display output to work although I would guess most people won't buy mining specific cards.

But I wouldn't be surprised at all if the prices on both Nvidia GPU's went up with their new super, Ti, or the next series of cards, people are willing to pay the jacked up prices so that tells Nvidia consumers are fine with paying $600+ for the x60 tier card.

10 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

I suspect they're doing this because gamers are yelling at them for doing nothing, so they respond with this

If the GPU is still insufficient, they'll go yell at Nvidia instead

Gamers don't understand that there's a supply demand due to covid, and just wants someone to blame, if you ask me

The main supply constraint is because of covid, although mining has certainly made supply worse, and Nvidia and AIBs selling cards in bulk directly to miners could be a significant amount.

[williamcll]

Why not just develop a NPU based hasher so people would go by AI accelerators instead of graphic cards.

[igormp]

2 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Why not just develop a NPU based hasher so people would go by AI accelerators instead of graphic cards.

GPUs are currently the best bang for the buck for when it comes to ML inference/training, so...

[williamcll]

5 minutes ago, igormp said:

GPUs are currently the best bang for the buck for when it comes to ML inference/training, so...

Maybe it's time to price down those cards too.

[ewitte]

Why does a dedicated mining card have worse efficiency?  I have my 3080 at like 95MH/s with power tweaked down to 226W.

 

This will take 2 minutes to hack unless they build this into hardware somehow.  I mean I was able to make my 3080 appear as an AMD card (drivers didn't work but it served its purpose) in less than a minute...

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, ewitte said:

Why does a dedicated mining card have worse efficiency?  I have my 3080 at like 95MH/s with power tweaked down to 226W.

 

This will take 2 minutes to hack unless they build this into hardware somehow.  I mean I was able to make my 3080 appear as an AMD card (drivers didn't work but it served its purpose) in less than a minute...

Wouldn't be surprised if that's just how it happens. We won't know until someone gets a good look at the boards (and to be clear: I don't think it's realistic for most reviewers to do this) and the software involved. A hardware solution might be tricky, anyway, since it could be useless if algorithms change.

[ewitte]

4 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Wouldn't be surprised if that's just how it happens. We won't know until someone gets a good look at the boards (and to be clear: I don't think it's realistic for most reviewers to do this) and the software involved. A hardware solution might be tricky, anyway, since it could be useless if algorithms change.

Miner programs can easily change all it takes is to package the data differently with encryption to make it think its a game...

 

This is likely a short term solution to ease inventory.

[Rym]

1 hour ago, Moonzy said:

Guess where the dies for the miner cards are gonna come from?

From the lower quality silicon that would otherwise have been thrown away because it cannot perform in 3D graphics intensive situations (silicon lottery) but would be fully capable of mining work.

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, ewitte said:

Miner programs can easily change all it takes is to package the data differently with encryption to make it think its a game...

 

This is likely a short term solution to ease inventory.

NVIDIA has effectively said as much! I'm sure it likes selling as many GPUs as it can, but not when it leaves gamers angry that they've been waiting X months to finish building a gaming rig.

[porina]

1 hour ago, ewitte said:

Why does a dedicated mining card have worse efficiency?  I have my 3080 at like 95MH/s with power tweaked down to 226W.

The specs nvidia gave are likely "as shipped" condition. A miner may choose to optimise from there, just like they have to with a gaming marketed GPU.

 

1 hour ago, ewitte said:

This will take 2 minutes to hack unless they build this into hardware somehow.  I mean I was able to make my 3080 appear as an AMD card (drivers didn't work but it served its purpose) in less than a minute...

Latest info is it does have some interaction between hardware and driver. Let's see how far they got with that.

 

Kinda reminds me of the hacking of the Switch some years back. Hackers thought they got the master key which in effect would have given them unlimited access to hardware, but Nintendo still found some way to get around that.

 

1 hour ago, ewitte said:

Miner programs can easily change all it takes is to package the data differently with encryption to make it think its a game...

Not at zero cost though. Mining code is highly optimised for that purpose. If they have to jump through additional hoops that will impact performance. How much, I don't know, but it will decrease value for that use case even if they code around it.

[liyihaha]

I think it is actually a bad news once I saw the press release and I don't know why some people are exciting on the move. I am not a computer related worker but I think it will not hurt mining firms since they will always have ways to bypass/hack the drivers to mine. Not to mention where the CMP dies come from unless NV have a lot of un-qualified dies for gaming graphic cards at hand due to poor yields and plan to make money on them instead of place it in waste bin.

 

This move actually hurts people like me and I don't think I am alone with similar idea. I want to upgrade my PC but I cannot find a graphic card unless I paid mark-up prices from ebay. So in order to recover some cost, I am seriously considering do some mining when I am not gaming to make some money from the card. But it seems this move will shut down this way.

 

I don't know what will happen so let's see.

[SteveGrabowski0]

21 hours ago, Middcore said:

A PR stunt to make it look like Nvidia cares about the plight of gamers. Nothing more.

 

And while I have no particular sympathy for miners, if this actually did anything it would set a troubling precedent about billion-dollar tech companies trying to impose their will about what paying customers can do with their products. 

Why? They have segmented their products lines for years. I'd have a problem with them nerfing mining in already released gpus since it would be like a bait and switch, but with new gpus people know at the outset they're not going to be great mining cards. Nvidia likely sees mining as a threat to their gaming card profits which would be far more predictable than trying to time the boom bust cycle of crypto correctly.

[pas008]

doesnt nvidia have most of their cards made by aibs though

 

so wont this still be up to them where these cards go?

 

is this a small attempt to persuade aibs to ship rtx in their distribution channels and ship these directly to the miners?

[WkdPaul]

Didn't take the time to read the 4 pages, but this is dumb, there's a GPU scarcity, it won't change because they nerf'd one GPU and have new CMP coming. If miners don't jump on the nerf'd 3060, scalpers will.

 

Plus, if the 3060 is available at retail price, miners will still buy them since a 3060 @ retail price with 50% performance is better than a 3060ti @ 200%+ price for 100% performance.

 

So, it's going to create scarcity regardless.

[SFFDesigns]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

If this in any way affects F@H and BOINC

I don't think they would do that, since they talked about F@H prominently in the RTX 30 series unveiling event if I'm not mistaken.

[Craftyawesome]

2 hours ago, porina said:

Kinda reminds me of the hacking of the Switch some years back. Hackers thought they got the master key which in effect would have given them unlimited access to hardware, but Nintendo still found some way to get around that.

Nintendo couldn't patch the bug on existing switches. No one said they couldn't release new ones with a fix.

[TVwazhere]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:49 AM, porina said:

What if it interferes with your video editing performance for example? Or folding@home? They have to make it targeted enough towards Eth mining so that it can't be worked around by changing the mining code, but not so wide other uses are impacted also. Unless nvidia wants to make the 3060 strictly only a gaming GPU.

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

If this in any way affects F@H and BOINC then pitchforks and torches shall be required.

52 minutes ago, Hymenopus_Coronatus said:

I don't think they would do that, since they talked about F@H prominently in the RTX 30 series unveiling event if I'm not mistaken.

 

This response was in the Verge article:

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2021/2/18/22290362/nvidia-will-not-reduce-3060-ti-3070-3080-3090-eth-mining

[Moonzy]

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

Plus, if the 3060 is available at retail price, miners will still buy them since a 3060 @ retail price with 50% performance is better than a 3060ti @ 200%+ price for 100% performance.

Right now I'm paying $1000 for 60mh/s

So if it's $300 for  >18mh/s, plus the chance to have it unlocked to double later, you bet your ass I'm jumping on it

[WkdPaul]

1 hour ago, Nacht said:

They can easily do the same for current cards just release rev 2 of each card with mining capability limited and unlock it at a later date again when supply allows it, rtx is gonna be a failure if it does not sell to gamers.

That wouldn't be possible, the nerf is in the driver, revised cards, unless they're very different hardware wise, could still use older drivers to circumvent the nerfing.

[WkdPaul]

1 hour ago, Moonzy said:

Right now I'm paying $1000 for 60mh/s

So if it's $300 for  >18mh/s, plus the chance to have it unlocked to double later, you bet your ass I'm jumping on it

Looks like it's going to be the case ... don't mine ETH and it won't throttle

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rtx-3060-still-profitable-mining

 

 

F

[Moonzy]

14 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

Looks like it's going to be the case ...

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rtx-3060-still-profitable-mining

 

 

F

Yeah, eth isn't the only profitable coin now

Even 4gb cards are making profit right now on other algo

 

I wonder how will Nvidia tackle this, or this is just a half baked PR stunt indeed, that will be forgotten after a while

 

 

Edit: so the cards launches on the 25th, I'm wondering if people would crack the code before then