Is this what gaming has become?

[msknight]

I did that most heinous of things, I bought a game from an indie developer (RimWorld) and was bored stupid enough to read the EULA. It happens to be Ludeon Studios in Montreal.

Part of it reads ....

Quote

"We can terminate this EULA if you breach any of the terms. This means that this license and the permission to use the Software can be revoked. This is pretty serious, so please be sure you understand this. It means, for example, that if you distribute the Software to pirates, of break rules on the forum, or break any other rule in this EULA, we can revoke your access to the game with no refund."

To get this straight, if you're a dick in a forum they can take away your right to play the game you paid for, and give you no refund whatsoever.

Now, I don't usually spend money on AAA games because the corporates are... well, corporates, and I expect that kind of behaviour from them, (I'm looking at you EA) which is why I prefer to support indie games... and I also download the binaries wherever I can as I've got a considerable mistrust of services where the rules can change at a whim and I've got no recourse.

But... to find this kind of thing coming from an Indie studio?! And not from a subscription, by the way, but a one off purchase of the product which wasn't throw away cash, either. Not AAA costs, but a good chunk of wonga.

 

My fears were exacerbated when Valve and five publishers were fined in the EU for geoblocking. If I believe correctly, the five publishers held their hands up, while Valve blew them a raspberry. And I honestly held Valve to better things than the worst of the corporates, which is why I've cautiously bought things on Steam.

 

Am I being unreasonable here? Should I return to playing Elite on my BBC Micro and forget about buying games in the modern market?  Or have things really gone too far?

 

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, msknight said:

Or have things really gone too far?

The vast majority of EULAs have never been tested in court, it's simply too expensive.

So they (the devs) can put in whatever they want, but enforcing it is another story.

[Letgomyleghoe]

This is just to state that they can revoke your access to the game at any time, this is to protect their game, and to protect them in case someone decides to go to court because daddy ludeon studios banned them 

[msknight]

Just now, Radium_Angel said:

The vast majority of EULAs have never been tested in court, it's simply too expensive.

So they (the devs) can put in whatever they want, but enforcing it is another story.

As far as I'm aware, they can just pull the plug at their end and the onus is on me to take costly action.

 

Oh, and the EULA isn't presented until AFTER the cash has been spent, by the way. No easy way to get a refund.

[Levent]

I dont see anything wrong there.

[msknight]

Just now, Levent said:

I dont see anything wrong there.

You buy a pair of shoes. You then mouth off about the company that makes them. Said company come to your house, take the shoes and don't give you your money back. And you can't see what's wrong with that?

[tikker]

1 minute ago, msknight said:

No easy way to get a refund.

This looks like a Steam purchase, so if stuff hasn't changed since last time I looked you can refund without questions if you have less than 2 hours of time on it.

[WhitetailAni]

I believe there was once a EULA or Terms and Conditions that required you to give up your immortal soul.

This is probably something similar.

[msknight]

2 minutes ago, tikker said:

This looks like a Steam purchase, so if stuff hasn't changed since last time I looked you can refund without questions if you have less than 2 hours of time on it.

It wasn't. It was a retail purchase from HumbleBundle, so I can't get a refund through the Steam system. But my purchase problem is separate from the point I'm making.

[tikker]

1 minute ago, msknight said:

It wasn't. It was a retail purchase from HumbleBundle, so I can't get a refund through the Steam system. But my purchase problem is separate from the point I'm making.

Ah just a key then. I haven't bought a HumbleBundle in a looong time, so not up to date with their return scheme.

 

Yeah I feel EULAs are this super gray middleground nowadays. Noone actually reads them and just clicks accept, yet that probably has driven companies to put weird stuff like this in there. It's like when on a phone the torch app needs access to your photos and contacts.

[Levent]

6 minutes ago, msknight said:

You buy a pair of shoes. You then mouth off about the company that makes them. Said company come to your house, take the shoes and don't give you your money back. And you can't see what's wrong with that?

Its an extremely broad EULA, that I agree, however Tynan (owner of Ludeon and the developer of Rimworld) never went after someone or pursued questionable actions. It is up to you to play an extremely fun game or not.

[Radium_Angel]

14 minutes ago, msknight said:

As far as I'm aware, they can just pull the plug at their end and the onus is on me to take costly action.

 

Oh, and the EULA isn't presented until AFTER the cash has been spent, by the way. No easy way to get a refund.

Welcome to the wonderful world of "consumer" rights.

Suck it up peasant and buy more shiny crap to keep your corporate overlords well fed.

 

And they wonder why piracy is such an issue...

[msknight]

9 minutes ago, Levent said:

Its an extremely broad EULA, that I agree, however Tynan (owner of Ludeon and the developer of Rimworld) never went after someone or pursued questionable actions. It is up to you to play an extremely fun game or not.

I don't know Tynan, or his history... and I've made a decision and filed a request with HumbleBundle for a refund. I'm not happy with the EULA. ... I mean, some of this I can understand... but the developer granting themselves the power to kill your access to the game and not give a refund, if you get involved in a flame war on the forums... that's just something I believe is a step too far for me. I just don't want to go there.

[msknight]

I mean... part of me is wondering where this is going to stop? I increasingly read with concern, that companies are going after people who leave negative reviews of their services or products, etc. I just want no part of that action. That's the kind of territory where this EULA is going for me. What's to stop them pulling the plug if I say something they don't like... even if I'm justified in saying it?  I'm out.

[LogicalDrm]

EULA is bit iffy when it comes to laws and such. Its pretty much company securing their behind from legal actions. Like I just recently scimmed through Discord ToS. Having "THIS ONLY APPLIES TO US CITIZENS" even in there is just sad to see. Because EU, AUS etc. have much more strict consumer protections laws, its illegal to force anyone to sign document which would make the other party immune to any legal actions.

 

My biggest questions however is, why would Valve/Steam be any better than rest of the US based companies (or any companies for that matter, looking at you Ubisoft and). I actually find it hilarious that Steam is still being looked at like its poster-boy of game distribution, and others can't even be mentioned in same sentence. Back when EA was the punching bag, they still had working customer support and refunds, something which Steam at that time didn't have. They were essentially forced to add refunds because of EA having them. AFAIK Steam customer support is still one of the worst of industry (Google and Facebook are probably worst overall). Plus Valve being very vague and inconsistent on how and why they ban games and developers (kinda like what Twitch does with streamers).

 

Valve/Steam is being glorified because they had first digital distribution platform with Steam, and were serving games super-cheap for years. Thats it. They aren't better, they just are innovative.

[msknight]

3 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

Valve/Steam is being glorified because they had first digital distribution platform with Steam, and were serving games super-cheap for years. Thats it. They aren't better, they just are innovative.

You're quite right. When they hit the scene with innovative games and seemed to be, games, by gamers, for gamers, in the early days. Things like their mobile desks and the way they treated staff and employed people was very people-centric. I am probably guilty of reading too much into that.

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

Half of the stuff people blindly click on, or agree to, could be one day be used against them in all kinds of unfair ways.

 

The truth is, in 99.9% of cases, the "caveats" inserted into these things aren't acted upon.