Popular Cyberpunk 2077 Mod pulled from Nexusmods over telemetry debate.

[theRooster]

UPDATE: After much ado about nothing, the mod is back on Nexus Mods with the telemetry removed.

 

Popular Cyberpunk 2077 mod "Cyber Engine Tweaks" was pulled from Nexus Mods by the author after simple telemetry to track total concurrent users was added. This mod is the base toolset on which many [most] other mods are built upon, and with NexusMods being the place the majority of mods are hosted, this will require individuals to go to GitHub to grab the dependency manually rather than just clicking "install with vortex" (NexusMods official mod manager). A nexus moderator emailed the mod author (images were posted to discord) that:

Quote

in our File Submission Guidelines [...] we specify that we regard mods/tools/utilities that connect to the internet to send or receive data as inappropriate content.

Also going on to say that the only acceptable exception to this rule was instances where internet connectivity was core to the functionality of the mod, and that telemetry did not satisfy the burden of "critical for the functioning of the mod". The moderator then goes on to express discontent that some content was removed from the description of the mod instead directing all users to an off-site wiki. no direct follow-up or response email was mentioned publicly.

 

The mod author both on discord and in the issues section of the github page hosting the source code of the mod expressed his disagreement with the assertion of the nexus moderators. The author asserts "Nexus has policies that do not make sense in my opinion" regarding the telemetry as so extremely minimal as to be non-consequential "If just a ping triggers them so much...". The telemetry in question can be seen in a recent update to the code base, and consists of generating a random string each time the game is launched, and using popular command line utility "curl" to POST that string once a minute to "https://cet.tiltedphoques.com/announce". The code running on that server is also available on the mod author's github, and is extremely minimal as it tracks current number of active users and all-time peak concurrent users.

 

After the initial email, the author removed the mod from the nexus, and several issues were quickly posted to the github from confused nexus users who had not been aware of the messages on discord. On these issues a nexus mods moderator showed up to answer confused users's question "why has the mod been removed from the website", and responded with the very terse reply:

Quote

it was removed because the nexus moderation staff asked him to remove the telemetry and he said "no"

After further questions from confused users, the nexus mods moderator also asserted the decision was out of "stubbornness", citing a previous "skyrim together fiasco" associated with the author. At this point the mod author joins the discussion, and accuses the moderator of "antagonizing" him personally. Additional discussion makes it clear the mod author does not intend to update the mod to comply with the terms of service, or to re-release the mod on nexusmods at this time.

 

My Thoughts

The mod author seems to be offended that someone might consider the telemetry he included as invasive. For someone with a technical background in coding, it is clearly very minimal telemetry, and the value of good telemetry can be huge when developing a product. The question was even asked why he wanted the data so much, and the answer was basically: because I was curious. To some, this is simply not a good enough answer, and that's apparently also not a good enough answer for the TOS of Nexus. Offended at the idea that his idle curiosity of concurrent user count may be inappropriate to collect, he then proceeds to "punish" nexusmods by pulling his content off their platform "The policy won't change, I am not going to give nexus any right to decide what I can or cannot do with my work". While I disagree with how the moderator handled the situation with effectively name-calling, and going around to all the various online forums to pester this guy, I don't necessarily disagree with the "stubbornness" remark.

 

Sources

 see the various links throughout the post, and attached images of the email conversation (from discord as well)

Edited February 18, 2021 by theRooster

[theRooster]

more details also available on a cdpr forums thread: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/psa-cyber-engine-tweaks-now-only-available-on-github.11080493/

[Helpful Tech Witch]

Ok. This is something I'm not sure on

In general telemetry is bad, but also, this is something that is so simple.

 

Hey, are you there?     Yeah, I'm here

 

Is nothing compared to what the OS is doing at any given time.

[theRooster]

TLDR; my view is: Rule exists to prevent abuse; mod author doesn't think rule applies to him b/c he's not abusing it; gets mad when told he's breaking the rules; gets more mad when others ask why he's so insistent on breaking the rules. why u mad?

 

I agree that the actual telemetry in question is harmless, but not really the point.

[Archer42]

My opinion - any telemetry collected without being opt-in is malicious.

 

"Simple ping" can carry much more information than many people would assume, anything from approximate physical location (country, city) to amount of time person spends playing, at what time of day he does it etc. Correlated with other data this can be undesirable. And there is no real way to tell if it is used that way or not, so "not abusing" is a bit optimistic...

 

And it absolutely does not matter that "everybody is doing it".

[Spotty]

Moved to the PC gaming forum. Internet drama is not Tech News.  Tech news guidelines requires links to reputable sources; your links to discord chat messages (which are not visible unless you join the discord btw) would not qualify as such.

Please continue discussion in the PC gaming forum.

[theRooster]

2 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Here's the thing, how do the authors know if there is demand and how much demand there is for the mod if they can't collect minimal telemetry (number of people actively using the mod)? Nexus launcher could also be collecting this kind of information if they don't want third parties to do that.

Nexus provides page view, and unique download stats to all mod authors by default. It was also mentioned in discord by another Nexus moderator that they initiated the email with intent to discuss it, and that they may have been able to provide additional stats from what they collect from downloads in lieu of integrated telemetry. I'll attach the stats page of a mod of mine for example... 

[Mark Kaine]

I like how nexus moderators are suddenly really nice, and appear to be logical thinking humans as soon it's about their site's income... 

 

as for the modder, I'm not sure but sounds like drama queen to me, I mean not understanding that people might not be okay with sending "telemetry" without an option to opt out, maybe should not do any c0d1ng at all then IMHO

 

 

9 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Here's the thing, how do the authors know if there is demand and how much demand there is for the mod

that is really simple, they see how many people downloaded it and continue to download it, they also see it on their bank account.........

 

I mean he already said it was out of 'curiosity' which is fine, as long there's an opt out option. 

[theRooster]

7 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

as long there's an opt out option

There is an opt out in the settings page of the mod, but it's on by default and there's no warning on installation / agreement informing the user. You would have to find out by going to the changelog on github, or by browsing the settings.