Fixing Apple's GOOD Engineering

[ColinLTT]

The new M1 Macbook lineup is impressive - but did Apple leave performance on the table in the Macbook Air by going fanless?

 

 

Buy Apple Macbook Pro M1 (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/9oRcJ2n

Buy Apple Macbook Air M1 (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/fBHr32X

Buy iFixit Pro Tech Toolkit (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/k0AMYak

[Radium_Angel]

Apple has no good engineering.

Only engineering with ulterior motives.

 

[Mokshith BC]

what if we insulate the back of the MacBook (let's say with some dbrand skin which might act as an insulator) we might not get similar performance but it will be better than the air due to more thermal mass and it will be comfortable.

[Abudis]

Am I the only one whose video started with an abrupt "But when we get to more extended workloads [...]"?

[chicherich]

Thats pretty neat. And it seem reversible so you don't lose warranty.

[Hunter259]

Why did you guys not think to use your graphite pads to enhance the overall effectiveness of the back panel? I did this with thermal pads on my Pro 16 is nearly completely eliminate GPU throttling in windows. It gets hot but isn't too bad. Something like the air wouldn't be able to heat it up nearly as much. (Pictures are missing 3 other pad spots but oh well)

[just_dave]

Nice, just day before I order my M1. Also, doing this mod you are risking the battery blowing up (no joke)

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

Apple has no good engineering.

Only engineering with ulterior motives.

 

The irony is that the video explicitly shows that Apple did have good engineering, as it found a way to keep the Air fanless without roasting your legs. Linus' "fix" is lousy if you put the Air on your lap.

[just_dave]

6 minutes ago, Commodus said:

The irony is that the video explicitly shows that Apple did have good engineering, as it found a way to keep the Air fanless without roasting your legs. Linus' "fix" is lousy if you put the Air on your lap.

@ColinLTT This might feel like too much, but most Li-po batteries have maximum operating temperature of 50°C. Idk what is specifically written on the Apple cells, but it's safe to assume it's 50°C as well. If you mod the laptop this way like you guys did, the whole bottom panel will radiate heat across the whole chassis, where the battery cells are. They are black, which means they absorb IR (heat) very well. If you measured 47.6°C with 20°C room temp, that is approaching the danger zone and a lot of ppl I know keep their homes and offices at 23-25°C. At that point, you're risking the battery either degrading quickly, swelling up more than usual and/or it outright blowing up. You should include some sort of disclaimer for this in the desc so you don't get sued if someone's Air blows up on their lap and disintegrates their PP.

[OctLeaf]

Whats with the sound? Is it me or is it by several seconds ahead of the video? Edit: ok, its fine now

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

The irony is that the video explicitly shows that Apple did have good engineering, as it found a way to keep the Air fanless without roasting your legs. Linus' "fix" is lousy if you put the Air on your lap.

How many people really use laptops on lap? Also when is that on naked legs? I'd probably do the mod because every laptop I've ever used was on some surface that weren't my legs. I would put an insulating layer across battery though.

[The Heinz]

How thick of a thermal pad would you want to use for this?

[The Heinz]

4 hours ago, just_dave said:

@ColinLTT This might feel like too much, but most Li-po batteries have maximum operating temperature of 50°C. Idk what is specifically written on the Apple cells, but it's safe to assume it's 50°C as well. If you mod the laptop this way like you guys did, the whole bottom panel will radiate heat across the whole chassis, where the battery cells are. They are black, which means they absorb IR (heat) very well. If you measured 47.6°C with 20°C room temp, that is approaching the danger zone and a lot of ppl I know keep their homes and offices at 23-25°C. At that point, you're risking the battery either degrading quickly, swelling up more than usual and/or it outright blowing up. You should include some sort of disclaimer for this in the desc so you don't get sued if someone's Air blows up on their lap and disintegrates their PP.

 

what do you think would be a good additional mod to keep the battery shielded from the heat? paint them white?

[Luscious]

Notebook manufacturers have been getting away with this dirty scam for years, and is partly why notebooks have suffered by compromising cooling performance for "aesthetics" - a word they have totally butchered to death. You have this "good enough" mentality butting heads with what used to be proper engineering, and for the most part, it's this good looks department that becomes the bigger bully. That's when consumers looking for a solid product lose.

 

Here is a review I did of a Toshiba laptop suffering some serious heat extraction issues. For reference 55C is 131F. While no part of the chassis hit that figure, the exhaust air coming out DID. And while this notebook had a fan and heatsink fitted, the two just didn't do a good enough job because instead of CONTAINING the heat and expelling it, the entire unit was heat soaked to the point that the right side of the palm rest became too hot to touch. Just dip your hand in 43C water - I guarantee you will be pulling your hand out after a few seconds.

 

Looking at the underside of the panel for the palm rest there was no insulation fitted at all. Yet this critical omission could have been a simple fix as we all know heat rises. That's also partly why the unit never felt warm on my lap despite the hot air gushing out the side.

 

That IEC 55C figure probably pertains to the heat producing components themselves - the attached heatsink should be a few degrees cooler and the chassis should be a few more degrees cooler again etc... There's NO WAY you're going to be holding onto 55C of anything or risk serious scalding.

 

And that example wasn't the only notebook I looked at that was suffering from heat extraction issues. HP has had similar spectacular fails, never mind the awful junk coming out from outfits like Acer/Gateway back in the day.

[just_dave]

4 hours ago, The Heinz said:

 

what do you think would be a good additional mod to keep the battery shielded from the heat? paint them white?

Don't do this mod in the first place

[ju5td0nt]

hey there, what kind of thermalpads did you use?
there are differences in thicness right? thank you =)

[just_dave]

5 hours ago, Luscious said:

Notebook manufacturers have been getting away with this dirty scam for years, and is partly why notebooks have suffered by compromising cooling performance for "aesthetics" - a word they have totally butchered to death. You have this "good enough" mentality butting heads with what used to be proper engineering, and for the most part, it's this good looks department that becomes the bigger bully. That's when consumers looking for a solid product lose.

 

Here is a review I did of a Toshiba laptop suffering some serious heat extraction issues. For reference 55C is 131F. While no part of the chassis hit that figure, the exhaust air coming out DID. And while this notebook had a fan and heatsink fitted, the two just didn't do a good enough job because instead of CONTAINING the heat and expelling it, the entire unit was heat soaked to the point that the right side of the palm rest became too hot to touch. Just dip your hand in 43C water - I guarantee you will be pulling your hand out after a few seconds.

 

Looking at the underside of the panel for the palm rest there was no insulation fitted at all. Yet this critical omission could have been a simple fix as we all know heat rises. That's also partly why the unit never felt warm on my lap despite the hot air gushing out the side.

 

That IEC 55C figure probably pertains to the heat producing components themselves - the attached heatsink should be a few degrees cooler and the chassis should be a few more degrees cooler again etc... There's NO WAY you're going to be holding onto 55C of anything or risk serious scalding.

 

And that example wasn't the only notebook I looked at that was suffering from heat extraction issues. HP has had similar spectacular fails, never mind the awful junk coming out from outfits like Acer/Gateway back in the day.

I am searching for a good laptop since October and basically all Windows laptops reach more than 50°C on the bottom side under load. I ended up buying the M1 MBA, but for example this other laptop I considered from Acer also heats to dangerous temps:

I actually bought this laptop and returned it after 4 RMAs:

As you can see, it also reaches over 50°C

[DoctorNick]

10 hours ago, RejZoR said:

How many people really use laptops on lap? Also when is that on naked legs? I'd probably do the mod because every laptop I've ever used was on some surface that weren't my legs. I would put an insulating layer across battery though.

This laptop was designed mainly for Instagram girls

[Video Beagle]

@colinltt , this was a really good video!

 

What really struck me was the explanation for why Apple went the way they did...not as criticism, but as pure informational content. It's frankly an unexpected, but nice change from what is often the LTT normal with Apple stuff.

I do wonder of the long term effects of a mod like this on the system. I imagine there'll be forum members or other channels that do this for keeps and report on it.

 

[RejZoR]

45 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

This laptop was designed mainly for Instagram girls

It's annoying when people make fun of Apple even when they make genuinely good products (and these M1 based devices are just that). And then you're called "Apple fanboy" when you express a defense for Apple... The way Apple migrated to ARM and the way how these M1 Macs perform is just outstanding. So many have tried and always failed miserably. I mean, why would anyone buy a 1500€ Microsoft Surface with ARM processor that performs worse than dual core budget laptops? And it came with bunch of asterisks. These M1 Macs are pretty much zero compromises and can easily be used to actually earn money with them. So no, these are not just for Instagram/OnlyFan gurls.

LTT's dive into specifications also shows Apple, despite often being mocked for lack of engineering and quality design put a lot of thought into design of it. And frankly, even in passive factory default mode drops very little in performance.

[Luscious]

5 hours ago, just_dave said:

I am searching for a good laptop since October and basically all Windows laptops reach more than 50°C on the bottom side under load. I ended up buying the M1 MBA, but for example this other laptop I considered from Acer also heats to dangerous temps:

I actually bought this laptop and returned it after 4 RMAs:

As you can see, it also reaches over 50°C

I am shocked.

Shocked and appalled.

Shocked and appalled and horrified.

So shocked and appalled and horrified that I dropped my thesaurus.

 

And yet it's no joke. Notebooks like these are flooding the market all the time. Thin means compromise - I said it years ago. Normally I'd suggest looking into enterprise grade models (HP Elitebook for example) that are more robust, but at the prices those go for it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

Even Alienware cannot deliver quality - the M18X I looked at had very serious hardware issues that warranted a return despite solid performance.

 

Notebooks just aren't getting the attention from manufacturers any more that they used to 10 years ago. And you see that at shows like CES if you've been following the trends over the years like I have. I moved back to a high-end desktop system in 2015 after 15 years of using notebooks exclusively. If that doesn't hammer the point home I don't know what does.

[Commodus]

19 hours ago, RejZoR said:

How many people really use laptops on lap? Also when is that on naked legs? I'd probably do the mod because every laptop I've ever used was on some surface that weren't my legs. I would put an insulating layer across battery though.

My fiancée putting the finishing touches on an important legal matter from the couch would beg to differ on lap use.

 

This is a mainstream laptop; it's reasonable to expect that it'd get use beyond a desk, even if many people use it exactly as you do.

 

 

[Video Beagle]

15 hours ago, Commodus said:

This is a mainstream laptop; it's reasonable to expect that it'd get use beyond a desk,

The main blindspot in users of this forum appears...no one that posts here falls under "mainstream" and they fail to look at many many products from that perspective.

 

This one (and all the airs) were designed to be light, useful, and, yes, stylish. To be easy to carry, to do the work needed..office, browsing, email..and to not be a big chunk of metal or plastic.

[Commodus]

5 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

The main blindspot in users of this forum appears...no one that posts here falls under "mainstream" and they fail to look at many many products from that perspective.

 

This one (and all the airs) were designed to be light, useful, and, yes, stylish. To be easy to carry, to do the work needed..office, browsing, email..and to not be a big chunk of metal or plastic.

As I've observed: there's a certain self-centredness to the tech enthusiast world. That is, not just preferring certain things, but believing the rest of the world should prefer those same things. Maybe it's because they tend to skew younger and still have the inflated ego carrying over from their teens.

 

The classic example is the gaming PC. I can't tell you how many PC gaming fans I've seen who genuinely believe their tastes dictate the industry, and that consoles and non-gaming PCs are "lesser" devices. You have to patiently explain that no, Jane and John Q Public don't care about their frame rate in Warzone, they care that their laptop won't roast their legs while they're video chatting with family.

[hirushaadi]

On 2/4/2021 at 7:52 PM, Luscious said:

I am shocked.

Shocked and appalled.

Shocked and appalled and horrified.

So shocked and appalled and horrified that I dropped my thesaurus.

 

And yet it's no joke. Notebooks like these are flooding the market all the time. Thin means compromise - I said it years ago. Normally I'd suggest looking into enterprise grade models (HP Elitebook for example) that are more robust, but at the prices those go for it's a tough pill to swallow.

 

Even Alienware cannot deliver quality - the M18X I looked at had very serious hardware issues that warranted a return despite solid performance.

 

Notebooks just aren't getting the attention from manufacturers any more that they used to 10 years ago. And you see that at shows like CES if you've been following the trends over the years like I have. I moved back to a high-end desktop system in 2015 after 15 years of using notebooks exclusively. If that doesn't hammer the point home I don't know what does.

thats some nice temps i guess