Jump to content

TSMC will make Intel CPUs on 3nm in 2022, largest order of 3nm process

Pickles von Brine
Quote

Yep, it's happened -- Intel is outsourcing manufacturing of its CPUs after the clusterf*** that it has been over the last few years and into the talented hands of TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company). RetiredEngineer provided a translation of DigiTimes report, which highlights some juicy facts:


image.png.fe47a193745a6b36cde0d91b07814c4e.png
 

Well, we all knew this was coming but who knew it would be so soon? Honestly, Intel has been hurting because of their own manufacturing woes. Should be interesting in 2022 when this happens. The big wonder will be if TSMC can keep up with demand. 

Source
Twitter

Be sure to @Pickles von Brine if you want me to see your reply!

Stopping by to praise the all mighty jar Lord pickles... * drinks from a chalice of holy pickle juice and tossed dill over shoulder* ~ @WarDance
3600x | NH-D15 Chromax Black | 32GB 3200MHz | ASUS KO RTX 3070 UnderVolted and UnderClocked | Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX X570S | Seasonic X760w | Phanteks Evolv X | 500GB WD_Black SN750 x2 | Sandisk Skyhawk 3.84TB SSD 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

real men have fabs 😉

Hi

 

Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler

hi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Which products specifically, however?

 

I wouldn't imagine Intel having TSMC manufacture its entire product stack.

The Workhorse (AMD-powered custom desktop)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X | GPU: MSI X Trio GeForce RTX 2070S | RAM: XPG Spectrix D60G 32GB DDR4-3200 | Storage: 512GB XPG SX8200P + 2TB 7200RPM Seagate Barracuda Compute | OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro

 

The Portable Workstation (Apple MacBook Pro 16" 2021)

SoC: Apple M1 Max (8+2 core CPU w/ 32-core GPU) | RAM: 32GB unified LPDDR5 | Storage: 1TB PCIe Gen4 SSD | OS: macOS Monterey

 

The Communicator (Apple iPhone 13 Pro)

SoC: Apple A15 Bionic | RAM: 6GB LPDDR4X | Storage: 128GB internal w/ NVMe controller | Display: 6.1" 2532x1170 "Super Retina XDR" OLED with VRR at up to 120Hz | OS: iOS 15.1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pickles - One of the Jar said:

Well, we all knew this was coming but who knew it would be so soon? Honestly, Intel has been hurting because of their own manufacturing woes. Should be interesting in 2022 when this happens. The big wonder will be if TSMC can keep up with demand. 

Source
Twitter

 

Short answer, very little. Again TSMC can;t meet all of intel's demand so this is going to be small numbers of select parts. Likely halo product stuff. Make intel look good even while the bulk of their stuff is on inferiour in house processes. The biggest consuquence is likly to be AMD getting shafted on supply which will hurt them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Which products specifically, however?

 

I wouldn't imagine Intel having TSMC manufacture its entire product stack.

 

This, TSMC literally can't, they don;t have the wafer capacity for the entire stack across all segments. Too many chips not enough wafers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dang I wonder what a 14nm+++++++++++++++++ moved onto a 3nm tsmc process that intel would most likely dub 5nm if Intel actually reach 5nm would bring to the table. 

 

It better blow AMD out of the waters

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote

Just to add: there are many things that don’t square up in this report. I find it hard to take at face value.

Above was posted by the source in reply to the translation, so treat with the sufficient caution as you should for any rumour.

 

 

Let's think this through. Intel and TSMC would be in negotiations for a while, and even if not made public (yet) they would know what they're doing. If Intel were to use TSMC in any big way, they might risk-start work on products to be made at TSMC during negotiations but real work can only start once agreed. TSMC 5nm is a today process. 3nm is quoted as being 2H2022, which would better fit in the timeframe of whatever product Intel is designing now.

 

So what do we have to look forward to?

 

On AMD side we have various roadmap slides indicating Zen 4 will be made on TSMC 5nm, by end of 2022. If I had to guess, I'd pick early-mid 2022 for that one given their release schedule is roughly a bit more than a year per generation. I'm not aware of AMD stating anything beyond Zen 4, but Zen 5 would probably fit in the 3nm window.

 

On Intel side we have Rocket Lake (14nm) expected within the next couple months or so, and Alder Lake (10nm) by end of year. With TSMC 3nm being 2H 2022, could that succeed Alder Lake? Even if the info is correct, we don't know what CPU products Intel might make. We know that desktop is seen by both Intel and AMD as a low priority. So maybe it is server and laptops that get the good stuff first. Intel's 7nm node was last stated as expected to be a late 2022 availability, if there are no more delays.

 

Let's also throw in one other factor that may play into this. With Lakefield and also the recent Ponte Vecchio die shot, these shows chiplets taken beyond AMD's current offerings. The whole product doesn't need to be made on cutting edge processes, and this could be split where it makes sense to do so. So the capacity demand might not necessarily be as high as it could be if whole monolithic dies were made.

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t forget that Pat Gelsinger, Intel’s incoming CEO, has already stated that a majority of its 2023 lineup would be manufactured internally.

 

So while there is the possibility that a good portion of their 2022 chips may be outsourced to TSMC, I can only imagine it’s either going to be very low volume stuff or something else.

The Workhorse (AMD-powered custom desktop)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X | GPU: MSI X Trio GeForce RTX 2070S | RAM: XPG Spectrix D60G 32GB DDR4-3200 | Storage: 512GB XPG SX8200P + 2TB 7200RPM Seagate Barracuda Compute | OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro

 

The Portable Workstation (Apple MacBook Pro 16" 2021)

SoC: Apple M1 Max (8+2 core CPU w/ 32-core GPU) | RAM: 32GB unified LPDDR5 | Storage: 1TB PCIe Gen4 SSD | OS: macOS Monterey

 

The Communicator (Apple iPhone 13 Pro)

SoC: Apple A15 Bionic | RAM: 6GB LPDDR4X | Storage: 128GB internal w/ NVMe controller | Display: 6.1" 2532x1170 "Super Retina XDR" OLED with VRR at up to 120Hz | OS: iOS 15.1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

If Intels 14nm is competative with AMD currently when AMD is on 7nm these 3nm Intel chips "should" run circles around everything. That's if everything goes well. Will be interesting though to see what AMD brings out before and around then plus it will be interesting to see said prices of these 3nm chips and their availability. I just hope they aren't priced stupidly high.

 (\__/)

 (='.'=)

(")_(")  GTX 1070 5820K 500GB Samsung EVO SSD 1TB WD Green 16GB of RAM Corsair 540 Air Black EVGA Supernova 750W Gold  Logitech G502 Fiio E10 Wharfedale Diamond 220 Yamaha A-S501 Lian Li Fan Controller NHD-15 KBTalking Keyboard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is very interesting given Intel already announce that most of their products will not be outsourced in 2023.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope it is true and that things go well.

With a new core architecture (Intel hasn't really updated their microarchitecture for the last 5 years) and much better node, Intel might not just be back in the match but even come out on top.

 

But let's hope that Intel fixes their foundry issues. We really don't want to end up in a situation where TSMC has a monopoly on manufacturing. That's bad for everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I hope it is true and that things go well.

With a new core architecture (Intel hasn't really updated their microarchitecture for the last 5 years) and much better node, Intel might not just be back in the match but even come out on top.

 

But let's hope that Intel fixes their foundry issues. We really don't want to end up in a situation where TSMC has a monopoly on manufacturing. That's bad for everyone.

I really want to know what they plan on pushing out of their own foundries for the next few years, 3nm aside. Intel hasn't really felt any hurt from AMD (contrary to the feel good narrative commonly pushed) because AMD simply can't scale to pose any real threat due to their reliance on third party manufacturing. 

MacBook Pro 16 i9-9980HK - Radeon Pro 5500m 8GB - 32GB DDR4 - 2TB NVME

iPhone 12 Mini / Sony WH-1000XM4 / Bose Companion 20

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Might need to get back into some of that Intel stonk 🚀

Work Rigs - 2015 15" MBP | 2019 15" MBP | 2021 16" M1 Max MBP | Lenovo ThinkPad T490 |

 

AMD Ryzen 9 5900X  |  MSI B550 Gaming Plus  |  64GB G.SKILL 3200 CL16 4x8GB |  AMD Reference RX 6800  |  WD Black SN750 1TB NVMe  |  Corsair RM750  |  Corsair H115i RGB Pro XT  |  Corsair 4000D  |  Dell S2721DGF  |
 

Fun Rig - AMD Ryzen 5 5600X  |  MSI B550 Tomahawk  |  32GB G.SKILL 3600 CL16 4x8GB |  AMD Reference 6800XT  | Creative Sound Blaster Z  |  WD Black SN850 500GB NVMe  |  WD Black SN750 2TB NVMe  |  WD Blue 1TB SATA SSD  |  Corsair RM850x  |  Corsair H100i RGB Pro XT  |  Corsair 4000D  |  LG 27GP850  |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Where do we actually go after 3 nm? 1nm? Start bringing out the decimal point? Or are we looking at beyond silicon CPUs?

 

Could this possible means we might get say 4 years of year-on-year performance improvements, then stagnation all over again as beyond silicon CPUs are developed and scaled?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gum Joe said:

Where do we actually go after 3 nm? 1nm? Start bringing out the decimal point? Or are we looking at beyond silicon CPUs?

 

Could this possible means we might get say 4 years of year-on-year performance improvements, then stagnation all over again as beyond silicon CPUs are developed and scaled?

2nm, and then 1.4nm.

But the numbers are mostly for marketing and doesn't really correspond with anything these days anyway. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

2nm, and then 1.4nm.

But the numbers are mostly for marketing and doesn't really correspond with anything these days anyway. 

I see, thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kinda indirectly related to this thread, I thought I saw somewhere a post relating to AMD considering Samsung for capacity, was there one or am I imagining it? My brain is going overtime with "what if" scenarios...

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

nice. progress!

"If a Lobster is a fish because it moves by jumping, then a kangaroo is a bird" - Admiral Paulo de Castro Moreira da Silva

"There is nothing more difficult than fixing something that isn't all the way broken yet." - Author Unknown

Spoiler

Intel Core i7-3960X @ 4.6 GHz - Asus P9X79WS/IPMI - 12GB DDR3-1600 quad-channel - EVGA GTX 1080ti SC - Fractal Design Define R5 - 500GB Crucial MX200 - NH-D15 - Logitech G710+ - Mionix Naos 7000 - Sennheiser PC350 w/Topping VX-1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×