Can this MOTU M2 run DT 990 600 ohm ?

[1988fido]

Hi
I am thinking to buy MOTU M2 to plug in an XLR mic didn't decide which one yet, but in general, I want to buy DT 990 600 and an XLR mic but thinking to buy a single Audio interface that is not very expensive and use it for both the mic and the headphones.

so can the MOTU M2 drive the DT 990 Pro 600 ohm ?
all I could find on it , that its  190mW @ 55 Ohms which I dont know how to convert that for the 600ohm :3 also  couldn't find how much mw @600 ohm the DT needs

I attached the spec sheets of DT 990 Edition 600ohm  and the DT 990 Pro 250ohm.
its confusing me because they have the edition 32/250/600 all the same mw usage, is that possible that they are all the same ? so i can use any dac capable of 100mw at 600ohm will be fine or I understood audio wrong XD

[Ahoy Hoy]

Yes.
Wont even bat a eyelid. (British term to mean something is so easy you don't event notice its doing it)

[rice guru]

I can't seem to find infor aside from people saying the JD's labs atom has more power which is an amp the kinda struggles powering 600 ohm 990's and 880's I would be wary. But it seems like 250 ohm might be fine. for those specs I would personally go with the 32 ohm tygr. Ideally for 600 ohm 990's the cheapest amps would be something like a monoprice liquid spark or a magni3+ as beyerdynamics are not efficient at all so they do require quite a bit of power to drive properly regardless of what the math says. But thats from experience. Other's who like to pull out specs sheet will argue with me otherwise or those who watch certain youtubers will say you need an amp with 50 watts per channel @50 ohms to get the most out of a 600 ohm Beyer so take that as you will. 

 

 

[Psittac]

I hear a lot of people underestimating what it takes to drive a 600ohm headphone.  To give you an idea of how much power my dt880 600ohm are currently running on my amplifier delivers 8500mw at 47 ohm's and only 600mw at 600ohm.  It's a stereo amplifier that is capable of outputting the entire amplifier into the headphone jack.  And that's at atleast 3/4 volume to get a loud experience.  With that setup you will be maxing everything in the chain.

 

Can you drive them on the MOTU? Probably. Should you? Probably not.

 

Here is a picture of what's currently driving mine

 

I would go for the 250ohm and you should be fine

 

*edit: I just tried them on my dac/amp which output's 640mw at 32ohm single ended and there is just no comparison.  It CAN get an acceptable volume but it's just thin in so many area's, when I switch back to my amp it's full and rich.  Being able to drive a pair of headphones and drive them properly are two different things.

 

The entire point of a high impedance headphone is that you're going to push it with a ton of juice, if you don't have that juice and don't plan on having it in the future there is absolutely no reason to go high impedance.

[Ahoy Hoy]

Christ already answered this but ill throw maths at it this time.

If at 55ohms the M2 produce 190mW you can calculate 600ohms using maths. Can I be arsed to do the maths. No. Is there websites which did it for you. Yes.
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.html
Step 1 add in the data you know. So 55 ohms and 190 mili wats and calculate. Now you have the current and voltage and can now change the resitence to work out the power
Step 2 delete the 55 ohms and replace it with 600, delete the power and calculate again

You end up with at 600 ohms the M2 can produce 17 miliwats. 

Now you can use that data and headphone data to work out how loud it will be. Sadly beyerdyanmic havnt given the snesitivty of the headphones. But its okay because google.
95.43dB per mW

Now we use maths again. Ahhh I cant be arsed to the website.
https://www.hear.reviews/2019/06/01/headphone-power-calculator/

Lets type our data in. do do do calculate.
The answer is 107dB is the max SPL the M2 can run the DT990 600 ohms at.

Lets see comparable loudness graph

107dB on the chart is similar to being at the front of a loud concert and required ear plugs to prevent hearing damage.


So the simple answer is YES they can run them up the a volume that will cause hearing damage

[Psittac]

Just now, Ahoy Hoy said:

Christ already answered this but ill throw maths at it this time.

If at 55ohms the M2 produce 190mW you can calculate 600ohms using maths. Can I be arsed to do the maths. No. Is there websites which did it for you. Yes.
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.html
Step 1 add in the data you know. So 55 ohms and 190 mili wats and calculate. Now you have the current and voltage and can now change the resitence to work out the power
Step 2 delete the 55 ohms and replace it with 600, delete the power and calculate again

You end up with at 600 ohms the M2 can produce 17 miliwats. 

Now you can use that data and headphone data to work out how loud it will be. Sadly beyerdyanmic havnt given the snesitivty of the headphones. But its okay because google.
95.43dB per mW

Now we use maths again. Ahhh I cant be arsed to the website.
https://www.hear.reviews/2019/06/01/headphone-power-calculator/

Lets type our data in. do do do calculate.
The answer is 107dB is the max SPL the M2 can run the DT990 600 ohms at.

Lets see comparable loudness graph

107dB on the chart is similar to being at the front of a loud concert and required ear plugs to prevent hearing damage.


So the simple answer is YES they can run them up the a volume that will cause hearing damage

It's not just simple math and numbers, the quality of the sound isn't a number.  Having the juice to fill in between notes is important.  If you're struggling to produce the volume you're at the sound will be weak and lifeless.  I have 600ohm headphones and I have different amplifiers to A/B test, not equations.

[Ahoy Hoy]

3 hours ago, Psittac said:

It's not just simple math and numbers, the quality of the sound isn't a number.  Having the juice to fill in between notes is important.  If you're struggling to produce the volume you're at the sound will be weak and lifeless.  I have 600ohm headphones and I have different amplifiers to A/B test, not equations.

Actually the maths and science works perfectly well, everything audio related is physics related which is some what maths related.
You wouldn't get power problems until you start running a amp at around its maximum. Since amp in the M2 can push easily into hearing damage range your not running it at maximum thus not having any problems with the sound caused by power problems form the amp.
You may get problems with noise floors but again this being a high end audio interface it has a good DAC so also wont have problems with that.

But you may get power problems with a Iphone for example as that can only do around 1mW at 600ohms so that would have to max out to get the dt990 600ohms to a decent volume.

[1988fido]

now i am getting conflicting answers :3 anyway 250ohm is cooler because its coiled cable.

[rice guru]

1 hour ago, 1988fido said:

now i am getting conflicting answers :3 anyway 250ohm is cooler because its coiled cable.

love my coile3d cables on my 250 ohm 990. I can walk accross the room or even to my closet to grab tools  or gear while keeping them on. such an underrated feature

[The Flying Sloth]

OP I can't confirm whether or not the M2 can power 600ohm Beyers but I can confirm it powers 250ohm Beyers fairly easily, when it comes to amplification of course there is a difference between the numbers and what is seen in actuality, low quality amplification chips can cause interference or otherwise disrupt the signal though numbers might suggest it would work perfectly fine. And that's assuming they report the correct figures for their amplification chips which isn't a given.

 

Sorry I can't provide you an answer but absolutely quality of amplification matters.

[Derkoli]

3 hours ago, Psittac said:

It's not just simple math and numbers, the quality of the sound isn't a number.  Having the juice to fill in between notes is important.  If you're struggling to produce the volume you're at the sound will be weak and lifeless.  I have 600ohm headphones and I have different amplifiers to A/B test, not equations.

Like @Ahoy Hoysaid, Audio is 100% physics and physics is just applied mathematics.

 

Everything related to audio can be simulated using calculations, including how sound interacts with a room, aslong as you know the parameters of the surfaces in the room.

 

The sound quality of equipment is measurable, and any change you can hear is either Psychoacoustic, or there was a change in the equipment that is measurable.

 

Quite frankly, if someone thinks equipment that measures the same sounds different, they either have Psychoacoustic/Mental influences or are BS'ing.

[Psittac]

10 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Actually the maths and science works perfectly well, everything audio related is physics related which is some what maths related.
You wouldn't get power problems until you start running a amp at around its maximum. Since amp in the M2 can push easily into hearing damage range your not running it at maximum thus not having any problems with the sound caused by power problems form the amp.
You may get problems with noise floors but again this being a high end audio interface it has a good DAC so also wont have problems with that.

But you may get power problems with a Iphone for example as that can only do around 1mW at 600ohms so that would have to max out to get the dt990 600ohms to a decent volume.

You need to apply experience more than theory.

 

There is a difference between possible and best practice.

 

You may not have the ears to differentiate or the funds to experience, but don't take your theory as a replacement for experience.

 

I don't have golden ears by any means but I can tell you that there is body behind properly powering a pair of headphones.

 

I had to put you on my ignore list, as the first person there, because you said that a 1990 doesn't BENEFIT from anything beyond onboard.

 

Can you play it onboard? I don't know probably, but to make a statement bold enough that it will NOT benefit..........  Yeah I don't need to hear anything else you have to say.

[Psittac]

6 hours ago, Derkoli said:

Like @Ahoy Hoysaid, Audio is 100% physics and physics is just applied mathematics.

 

Everything related to audio can be simulated using calculations, including how sound interacts with a room, aslong as you know the parameters of the surfaces in the room.

 

The sound quality of equipment is measurable, and any change you can hear is either Psychoacoustic, or there was a change in the equipment that is measurable.

 

Quite frankly, if someone thinks equipment that measures the same sounds different, they either have Psychoacoustic/Mental influences or are BS'ing.

Can you give me an equation for my own hearing?

[Psittac]

Having the juice to make a sine wave at a high volume is not the same as providing full power behind a dynamic and ever changing musical experience without distortion.  When a heavy note hit's and the amplifier can not catch up you have a clipped amplifier

[Psittac]

I'm presenting first hand experience, an amp capable of 600mw at 3/4 volume should in your view cause me an aneurism.  No matter how much you debate it stating that 17mw will make you deaf and comparing that to my real world experience of 600mw............ is not even close

 

You're google searching and entering forms...... I'm listening

[Ahoy Hoy]

5 hours ago, Psittac said:

I'm presenting first hand experience, an amp capable of 600mw at 3/4 volume should in your view cause me an aneurism.  No matter how much you debate it stating that 17mw will make you deaf and comparing that to my real world experience of 600mw............ is not even close

 

You're google searching and entering forms...... I'm listening

Its dependent on the on the headphone your using with the map. As each headphone has a different impedance and a different sensitivity.

If you have two 600 ohm headphones but ones got a sensitivity of 10dB per mW and another has 90dB per mW. The 10dB one would need a amp that powerful to get the volume up to the 80dB mark where most people are listening but if you put the 90dB per mW headphone in that 600mW amp you would one probably break the headphone as it cant handle that much power and if the headphone does manage it it will be so loud you could cause hearing damage.

Its like comparing a 500 horse power engine in a tank and in a motor bike. In a big heavy tank it doesnt go very fast but in a light weight motor bike it goes fast. Even though they have the same stat they are not equal.

 

6 hours ago, Psittac said:

Having the juice to make a sine wave at a high volume is not the same as providing full power behind a dynamic and ever changing musical experience without distortion.  When a heavy note hit's and the amplifier can not catch up you have a clipped amplifier

Thats why when looking at amplifiers you should also look at the frequncy response graphs. This shows the changes in frequencies during amplification. But that's not a stat commonly give out in amplifies with graphs anymore since the increase in technology its so easy to get a flat amplification. The stage its got so easy and so cheap that nearly every amp can do it, even the cheapest things inside laptops and phones. Instead of graphs they now just say it can do 20 to 20k.

But when I said running amps at max cause problem thats because when a amplifier is at the upper 95% the amp stops increasing volume equally over all frequencies and will boost certain frequencies more then others. Thats what the biggest thing you are spending when you buy expensive amps is the capability to go louder over all frequencies equally. Which is also when I do basic calculations on volume and power needed I can say that they probably wont need a amp because they shoudlnt need to go to those upper limits of amp to get a good hearing volume.

 

6 hours ago, Psittac said:

Can you give me an equation for my own hearing?

Yes its called a hearing test. you put special calibrated headphones and they play a frequncy and slowly turn the volume up. You press a button when you hear the sound. Do that for all frequencies and you know your hearing frequncy response. There are numerous website which you can do a that test on at home with headphones. Its not perfect result as depending on your headphones response it will skew results but it gives a close result.

 

 

6 hours ago, Psittac said:

You need to apply experience more than theory.

 

There is a difference between possible and best practice.

 

You may not have the ears to differentiate or the funds to experience, but don't take your theory as a replacement for experience.

 

I don't have golden ears by any means but I can tell you that there is body behind properly powering a pair of headphones.

 

I had to put you on my ignore list, as the first person there, because you said that a 1990 doesn't BENEFIT from anything beyond onboard.

 

Can you play it onboard? I don't know probably, but to make a statement bold enough that it will NOT benefit..........  Yeah I don't need to hear anything else you have to say.

Actually thats an incorrect quote. I said "You probably wont need a AMP" I also backed up my comment with my experience as I have those exact drivers in a similar model headphone. At no point did I say doesnt benefit.

My actually quote was "You probably wont need a AMP and buying one if you current system be that a computer or a phone etc is working it will have little improvement in audio quality."

 

Like I said in that post those headphones are very sensitive so dont require much amplification. ASLONG as his computer phone what ever he is using is in good working order you will not gain much improvement in quality with a better amplifier since the headphones are easy to run thanks to the good sensitivity that even on a phone they will not require high amplification.


And since you feel like I dont use my experience more then theory. Ill explain my background in all of this so you understand the knowledge I try to transfer over to people on this forum. So please enjoy my marines copy pasta.

I have a Bachelor in Science which specialised in Electrical engineering and acoustics. I have been working in the events industry for nearly 7 years now. Where I use not only my ears, my headphones, my high end audio mixing desks professionally. So people pay me money for my knowledge, hearing and equipment. I am giving this information for free to random people on the internet for the only reason because Im bored sat at home because Covid means there's no events for me to work on.

[spwath]

On 1/26/2021 at 5:43 PM, Derkoli said:

Like @Ahoy Hoysaid, Audio is 100% physics and physics is just applied mathematics.

 

Everything related to audio can be simulated using calculations, including how sound interacts with a room, aslong as you know the parameters of the surfaces in the room.

 

The sound quality of equipment is measurable, and any change you can hear is either Psychoacoustic, or there was a change in the equipment that is measurable.

 

Quite frankly, if someone thinks equipment that measures the same sounds different, they either have Psychoacoustic/Mental influences or are BS'ing.

I'm going to have to counter this.

 

Yes, in theory, everything is measurable. But do we have the equipment to measure and interpret everything? No.

Frequency response is not the only measurement that is important. There is a csd/waterfall plot, impulse response, and much more, and that still doesn't fully describe the sound.

Yes everything is measurable, but everything isn't measured.

[Psittac]

15 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Its dependent on the on the headphone your using with the map. As each headphone has a different impedance and a different sensitivity.

If you have two 600 ohm headphones but ones got a sensitivity of 10dB per mW and another has 90dB per mW. The 10dB one would need a amp that powerful to get the volume up to the 80dB mark where most people are listening but if you put the 90dB per mW headphone in that 600mW amp you would one probably break the headphone as it cant handle that much power and if the headphone does manage it it will be so loud you could cause hearing damage.

Its like comparing a 500 horse power engine in a tank and in a motor bike. In a big heavy tank it doesnt go very fast but in a light weight motor bike it goes fast. Even though they have the same stat they are not equal.

 

Thats why when looking at amplifiers you should also look at the frequncy response graphs. This shows the changes in frequencies during amplification. But that's not a stat commonly give out in amplifies with graphs anymore since the increase in technology its so easy to get a flat amplification. The stage its got so easy and so cheap that nearly every amp can do it, even the cheapest things inside laptops and phones. Instead of graphs they now just say it can do 20 to 20k.

But when I said running amps at max cause problem thats because when a amplifier is at the upper 95% the amp stops increasing volume equally over all frequencies and will boost certain frequencies more then others. Thats what the biggest thing you are spending when you buy expensive amps is the capability to go louder over all frequencies equally. Which is also when I do basic calculations on volume and power needed I can say that they probably wont need a amp because they shoudlnt need to go to those upper limits of amp to get a good hearing volume.

 

Yes its called a hearing test. you put special calibrated headphones and they play a frequncy and slowly turn the volume up. You press a button when you hear the sound. Do that for all frequencies and you know your hearing frequncy response. There are numerous website which you can do a that test on at home with headphones. Its not perfect result as depending on your headphones response it will skew results but it gives a close result.

 

 

Actually thats an incorrect quote. I said "You probably wont need a AMP" I also backed up my comment with my experience as I have those exact drivers in a similar model headphone. At no point did I say doesnt benefit.

My actually quote was "You probably wont need a AMP and buying one if you current system be that a computer or a phone etc is working it will have little improvement in audio quality."

 

Like I said in that post those headphones are very sensitive so dont require much amplification. ASLONG as his computer phone what ever he is using is in good working order you will not gain much improvement in quality with a better amplifier since the headphones are easy to run thanks to the good sensitivity that even on a phone they will not require high amplification.


And since you feel like I dont use my experience more then theory. Ill explain my background in all of this so you understand the knowledge I try to transfer over to people on this forum. So please enjoy my marines copy pasta.

I have a Bachelor in Science which specialised in Electrical engineering and acoustics. I have been working in the events industry for nearly 7 years now. Where I use not only my ears, my headphones, my high end audio mixing desks professionally. So people pay me money for my knowledge, hearing and equipment. I am giving this information for free to random people on the internet for the only reason because Im bored sat at home because Covid means there's no events for me to work on.

I have the dt880 600ohm which if not the exact same drivers are very close.

 

But maybe we're from two different world's, there is a lot that I don't know about the audio world so I go off the recommendations of people who have access to the vastness of the head-fi world.  And I will admit that I have a natural distaste for people trying to put numbers to something so subjective.  To me the audio journey is trying different thing's to understand what someone means when they say "soundstage" or "imaging" or open or mid focused etc.  I have a small fortune in my setup because I'm 40 with a good job no wife kids child support or alimony and I get to dive into my hobbies.  I have two Associates of applied science degree's and excelled at math, always the first done in a test and close to or above 100% grades in math up to Calc 1.  Though I'm older now and have let my math skills slide.  Anyways to me there is inherent flaws in audio testing methology, there is no real standardization and the potential standards that exist can't agree on anything.  Rather they are all flavor's of an idea, all trying to capture something that we don't have the ability fully capture as @spwath mentioned.  Throw into that the vastly different ways that ear's can be formed and brains can translate those sounds.......... To me it's far more than an equation.

 

When I disagree with your assessments it is head-fi specific and based off personal and communal knowledge.  I actually decided to pay a monthly fee for a head-fi chat room to escape the people that would attack me for even thinking that audio is subjective, not doubting my own standing but not wanting to deal with the toxic nature of hard core math nerds that don't have a fluid definition of anything.  Anyways that's a place where I can share my experiences and ask opinions based off what they've heard from vetted resources but more over their own experiences.  The only kind of people willing to pay monthly to talk about headphones are people passionate about the hobby and there is no dickatry.

 

With that said I have to apologize for my attacks on you, but I really don't see eye to eye with you.  Not to make this a sorry but not sorry, but in the audio community I have heard many people say that the dt1990pro scales well with everything in the chain before it.  And I get that.  My 6xx reflects everything from source media to the can's, even to the contentious point of cables (had a garbage adapter that sapped all life from them).

 

I guess to sum it up, this is a subjective hobby entirely, some people that get paid for using calculations don't walk the same path as people that spend way to much on items they can't get enough time on.

[Ahoy Hoy]

8 hours ago, Psittac said:

I have the dt880 600ohm which if not the exact same drivers are very close.

 

But maybe we're from two different world's, there is a lot that I don't know about the audio world so I go off the recommendations of people who have access to the vastness of the head-fi world.  And I will admit that I have a natural distaste for people trying to put numbers to something so subjective.  To me the audio journey is trying different thing's to understand what someone means when they say "soundstage" or "imaging" or open or mid focused etc.  I have a small fortune in my setup because I'm 40 with a good job no wife kids child support or alimony and I get to dive into my hobbies.  I have two Associates of applied science degree's and excelled at math, always the first done in a test and close to or above 100% grades in math up to Calc 1.  Though I'm older now and have let my math skills slide.  Anyways to me there is inherent flaws in audio testing methology, there is no real standardization and the potential standards that exist can't agree on anything.  Rather they are all flavor's of an idea, all trying to capture something that we don't have the ability fully capture as @spwath mentioned.  Throw into that the vastly different ways that ear's can be formed and brains can translate those sounds.......... To me it's far more than an equation.

 

When I disagree with your assessments it is head-fi specific and based off personal and communal knowledge.  I actually decided to pay a monthly fee for a head-fi chat room to escape the people that would attack me for even thinking that audio is subjective, not doubting my own standing but not wanting to deal with the toxic nature of hard core math nerds that don't have a fluid definition of anything.  Anyways that's a place where I can share my experiences and ask opinions based off what they've heard from vetted resources but more over their own experiences.  The only kind of people willing to pay monthly to talk about headphones are people passionate about the hobby and there is no dickatry.

 

With that said I have to apologize for my attacks on you, but I really don't see eye to eye with you.  Not to make this a sorry but not sorry, but in the audio community I have heard many people say that the dt1990pro scales well with everything in the chain before it.  And I get that.  My 6xx reflects everything from source media to the can's, even to the contentious point of cables (had a garbage adapter that sapped all life from them).

 

I guess to sum it up, this is a subjective hobby entirely, some people that get paid for using calculations don't walk the same path as people that spend way to much on items they can't get enough time on.

The reason I dont comment on posts about what headphones sound good etc is because that is subjective to people. I only every do it when I have specific personal experience with that headphone. 

But when the question is does this headphone work on this amp. That is just maths and results in a yes or no answer. Some amps do change the sound, but I never comment on that because its subjective and most lower end amps and computer amps have little sound difference. They are all have a good flat amplification

If your comment was asgard sounds better the the modi. I wouldnt question it, thats subjective to peoples hearing. Thats a perfectly acceptable opinion.
But if you said you need the asgard because of the extra power. I will calculate the power requirements and comment.

So when people say YOU NEED A AMP for this headphone, I calculate the power requirements to get to a suitable volume and since most computer audio doesnt have specification I have to presume some things so most comments I say should or probably but there is a stage that computer company's even though they dont spend big money on the audio components they dont spend no money and on board audio in computers etc is reasonably good.

The thing is most headphone company dont sell a product which cant be used without external amps and dac. Unless your buying stupidly high end headphones amps are not normally needed.

[Derkoli]

11 hours ago, spwath said:

Yes everything is measurable

Therefore proving my point.

 

Any change that is audible will be evidenced in a measurement, what that measurement is depends upon the change heard.

 

If you don't want to do measurements for certain things, you use a program such as REW Room Sim to predict measurements.

 

For example, here is a simulation of a ported subwoofer in my listening room:

 

 

All simulated via mathematics.

[rice guru]

3 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

The thing is most headphone company dont sell a product which cant be used without external amps and dac. Unless your buying stupidly high end headphones amps are not normally needed.

This is one of those few exceptions. The DT 880 600 ohm while I tend to not reccomend going out and buying the 50 wpc basx . I tend to recc at least on of the $100 as from straight up experience this thing just from a volume stand point and not at all quality standpoint. Struggles to be driven to a volume that is listenable from desktop sources pushing less than a watt at 33 ohms. A watt can be enough to get it to a respectable listening volume and a watt and a half can be enough to get it deafiningly loud. I don't know if beyerdynamic's numbers are bogus but even if the math checks out for this specific case it really doesn't you can go to other forums and time and time again people will say you need more power. It's not just me or this forum. 600 ohm beyerdynamics are some of the harder headphones to drive sure they Re not high end by any means but they are from the 80's which headphones were realeasing that were pretty hard to drive for cheap just look at the akg k240 600 ohm a hard as fuck to drive headphone retailing at less than a $100 I believe. Everyone who has this headphone seems to want powerful amps for some reason and there are instances where people will complain that motherboards and the highly reccomended e10k is not enough for the 250 ohm Beyers and using math should be fine. 

 

[Ahoy Hoy]

2 hours ago, rice guru said:

This is one of those few exceptions. The DT 880 600 ohm while I tend to not reccomend going out and buying the 50 wpc basx . I tend to recc at least on of the $100 as from straight up experience this thing just from a volume stand point and not at all quality standpoint. Struggles to be driven to a volume that is listenable from desktop sources pushing less than a watt at 33 ohms. A watt can be enough to get it to a respectable listening volume and a watt and a half can be enough to get it deafiningly loud. I don't know if beyerdynamic's numbers are bogus but even if the math checks out for this specific case it really doesn't you can go to other forums and time and time again people will say you need more power. It's not just me or this forum. 600 ohm beyerdynamics are some of the harder headphones to drive sure they Re not high end by any means but they are from the 80's which headphones were realeasing that were pretty hard to drive for cheap just look at the akg k240 600 ohm a hard as fuck to drive headphone retailing at less than a $100 I believe. Everyone who has this headphone seems to want powerful amps for some reason and there are instances where people will complain that motherboards and the highly reccomended e10k is not enough for the 250 ohm Beyers and using math should be fine. 

 

Its because to increase the volume by 3dB you have to double the power usage. So the first 90dB if the sensitivity is 90dB per 1mW only takes 1 milliWatt but 93dB takes 2mW 96 is 4 so on and so on. So to get a very high volume in the hundred you need like 10 to 15 milli wats.

Since most headphones have sensitivity between 90 and 100dB per milli watt and most headphone listing in around 85dB 1mW is more then enough to reach a good volume.

Which is why nearly every post id is about not needing a amp as unless you get some obscure headphones with high impedance and low sensitivity most amps manage.

The 600ohm dt990 is starting to push it with high impedance that things like phones or low end computer audio may struggle but most powered devices would just about manage to pump out 1 or 2 mili watts at 600 ohms. The old iphone 6 just about manage 1miliWatt at 600 ohms. Since motherboard manufactures dont give out specs you just got to hope they put enough effort in to have a amp powerfuller then a 7 year old phone.

[1988fido]

OK i guess there is something different or wrong in the way this video measure or how you guys measure it?

its saying the output impedance should be 8x lower than the headphones !?
wouldn't that means the less ohm on the Motu 2 output the more likely I will be able to drive the 600 ohm DT 990 !? am getting confused now
or its like they are measuring it in the other way

also am thinking to go for Fiio K3 to use the headphones on the go with laptop and phones

and maybe the DT 990 pro 250ohm coz it comes with coiled cable and easier to drive (assuming i understood correctly, because luke video logic says the higher ohm headphones should be easier because then the output ohm of dac will be 8x lower anyway)

 

[rice guru]

Output impedance and input impedance a different relationship and is not really about power output on the amp.

[1988fido]

On 1/29/2021 at 3:13 AM, rice guru said:

Output impedance and input impedance a different relationship and is not really about power output on the amp.

ok care to explain more?
so there is input impedance on the dac and output impedance.
ok which one is the one that should match the 600ohm of the headphones?