Absolute nightmare PC build issues...I'm about ready to call it quits with current-gen PC's...Any help?

[bjorntheblack]

I'd like to start by saying this is not my first build, and I am a very capable person who works in tech and have worked in tech support fields, so I'm used to figuring crap out...This is my 6th build or so in 15 years, so I don't think I'm just too dumb to figure this out...Every PC build I've ever done has been "Build, Boot, Load Windows, Install Drivers, done." this one, however has been nothing but trouble, at every turn. And when I google my issues, every issue hasa slew of people saying the same. So I am just working through issue after issue, all of which I seem to have.

 

Something is severely wrong here and I just don't know what it is at this point. I've had this PC built since before Christmas, and have yet to game on it due to troubleshooting, parts replacing, and things just not working. I have literally spent a month messing with this build and I am at my wits end. I've never had this much trouble with **anything** in my life...

 

Build Components:

 

Motherboard: Asus TUF Gaming x570 Wifi (had issue, replaced and now working...)

CPU: Ryzen 9 3900XT

Cooler: MSI MAG 360R

GPU: MSI RTX 3060Ti Ventus 2x OC

Initial RAM: Crucial Ballistix 32GB 3600Mhz DDR4

Replaced w/ RAM: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32GB 3600Mhz DDR4 (at behest of Asus support, likely for no reason)

PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G+ (is this not enough juice?! Newegg calc seems to think it is...)

 

Build Purpose: Wanted to play Half Life: Alyx and other VR games, current PC was minimum settings (core i5, GTX 970 - built 5 years ago). Oh, so I'm sitting on a Valve Index I can't use, too. That's nice.

 

Issues:

 

[Original, Self-Solved Issue] (can skip if you don't like misery):

 

Originally, I put together the PC, turned it on, and it POSTed and went to BIOS.

 

After looking around in the BIOS for a bit (changed nothing) and rebooting, the Motherboard's DRAM light stayed solid. No POST. I tried everything, and eventually called Asus tech support, who insisted that because my RAM (the Crucial Ballistix) wasn't on their QVL, it would never work and it was all the RAM's fault. Nevermind it POSTing once, going to BIOS, and various online reviews from people saying they're using this combo. Okay, new RAM ordered...

 

Put the new RAM in, no POST. Not surprised. Motherboard replacement ordered...

 

Motherboard replaced, entire PC rebuilt, new (G.Skill) RAM used...Oh, look at that, we've got POST. And we've got Windows installed. It was the motherboard. Weird, okay. But GET HYPED - it works now...

 

Well...

 

[Current Issue]:

 

I've been using the PC for the last couple of days, just watching Youtube and browsing stuff while I was working. Works fine, running all day long, but hadn't tried it for gaming yet. Was busy.

 

Today, I set up and hooked up my Valve Index and got into the HomeVR thing. I was looking around for like 3-5 minutes in VR, when I get a black screen. Fluke...? PC screen (and VR headset, of course) is just black, no shutdown, no restart. Computer is on, RGB proudly shining...and I have to hard-restart it. I get back in, and it does it again. Now i'm worried something is up with the Index, so I start troubleshooting...Then it occurs to me wait, check a non-VR game. Maybe it's the PC...again...

 

I load up Rust, and I'm in the game for about 3 minutes and then again, black screen. Okay, it's the graphics card. Something is up with the drivers, maybe? So I look around, and end up coming to the conclusion that using DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller) and reinstalling my drivers is the best bet. I do this. It goes fine.

 

I load up Rust again to try a game, and I'm running around for about 7 minutes, so I'm feeling like maybe that's what was doing it. I look to my wife:

 

"Fixed it." I say.

"I knew you would!" she replies.

The computer black-screens again, 3 seconds later.

"I'm still an idiot, apparently." I say.

"I knew you were!" she replies. I think she's on autopilot...

 

I have spent all day today, from 11 AM to 8 PM browsing for fixes, trying this, trying that...Nothing works. Total, I probably have 40+ hours into troubleshooting, re-ordering stuff, reading, and re-building. I am at my absolute wits end with this thing, and highly considering sending it all back and just writing this generation of PC's off as not worth their effort and finding a new hobby. I'm completely baffled right now - I've never had ANY issues in the past, let alone nothing but issues.

 

At some point while messing around I went to check if the card seemed hot, and I noticed that while in a game, the graphics card had the fans off. Thought that odd and immediately assumed it was broken. I fired up MSI Afterburner and the fans kick on...Uhhhh, okay. I notice the card is only at 40C anyway, so maybe the fans didn't need to be on...? Some new feature I don't know about? Passive cooling? Hmm...

 

I look at the fan chart for how they ramp up based on temp, at at 40C they were supposed to be at like 30% or something. They were now at 30%, but only because MSI Afterburner was open it seemed. I grabbed the "30C" part of the graph, and moved it to "100%", the fans ramp up to max. Okay, that works. I graph out a temp/speed scale that's basically for every 10C+, it adds 10%+ to fan speed, close MSI Afterburner and I try Rust again. It black screens within minutes, and I notice again that the fans are off when it does. Wtf...

 

So I try to reboot, and it's giving me the VGA motherboard LED. Oh no you don't you piss ant...I let it sit for 10 minutes, turn on the PC and it lets me back in. I open Afterburner and leave it open, and start Rust again. This time was my most successful attempt - it ran for probably 15 minutes while I sat and watched temps/speeds on Afterburner and Task Manager. The GPU never exceeds 60C, and the fans are spooled up to 80% - unless I close afterburner, then they go down or off. 

 

During this 15 minutes, I also ran around on a horse. It's the most fun I've had all day, and I still wanted to hang myself. It black screens again, with the GPU temp at 60C. It's not overheating - it's just being a piece of shit, I guess...?

 

I read somewhere to check the fan cables on the GPU, so I take it out (very adept at this by now!) and check...they're fine. Someone on some forum says "These cards are garbage, manufactured by ham-fisted thermal-compound monkeys - take the heatsink off the board and you'll see - there's thermal paste all over every pin under there."

 

I take it apart, and sure enough...thermal paste everywhere. So I clean it up, apply new arctic zero and put it back in. I get another 15 minute session on Rust, and another black screen.

 

At this point, I have nothing to do but replace the GPU (good luck finding one...) or replace the PSU if someone says it's undersized or may be bad, I guess. That's the only thing I can think is that it douesn't have enough oompf - but pcpartspicker/newegg calc says this build uses about 480W, so it should be okay I'd think. Nothing is OC'd and I won't. Hell, the RAM even says it's running at a much lower speed in the BIOS than advertised. Apparently, common issue...nothing to be done. Who knows. Can't care right now.

 

TLDR & Things I've done:

• New mobo, different RAM originally after failed POST, got that working, windows installed...

• DDU, drivers re-installed

• Downloading MSI Afterburner, mostly for diagnostics so I could see what it was doing. Played with fan speeds. Some success it seemed like. Not really, still F'd.

• Took GPU apart, cleaned horrible thermal paste job up, replaced with new.

At this point, the only thing I haven't done is replaced the GPU, PSU or CPU. The CPU is fine, seems like. GPU, maybe not...? My biggest wonder if it's the PSU - because if you stress this card at all like when it needs more power, it takes a dump. I can browse the web on this PC and watch videos and shows, but not game...

 

Astonishingly, I tried to keep this short so I may have left out some things I've done. Honestly, it's been a long process...

 

I would appreciate any help/advice. At this point, I am deeply considering returning all of this or selling it off online piece by piece...If I have to replace the GPU, I am going to be very upset and VERY stuck because they're impossible to find.

 

I just don't have time to spend another two weeks troubleshooting and parts-waiting. I need halp.

[YourRandomForumGuy]

What kid of PSU do you have?

EDIT: Just to make sure the PSU is on the PSU tier list without any issues

[Archer42]

Do you still have old system?

Swap the cards, see what happens.

PSU is good enough, IMO.

[bjorntheblack]

Just now, Archer42 said:

Do you still have old system?

Swap the cards, see what happens.

PSU is good enough, IMO.

I do, but the old GPU is two 6 pin connectors, new one is two 8 pins...I'd have to do a lot of swapping around, if it's even possible to do, Like I think i'd have to swap the old PSU and GPU into the new computer...And all that will tell me is "Yes, two different components work when you remove tw others!" which isn't super valuable information. I mean it might point to a bad GPU, but it's not even certain.

[bjorntheblack]

6 minutes ago, YourRandomForumGuy said:

What kid of PSU do you have?

EDIT: Just to make sure the PSU is on the PSU tier list without any issues

It's an EVAG SuperNOVA 650 G+

 

Doesn't seem to be on that list at all, but I don't know what that really means - I'd have to know the 650w wasn't enough power to make it make sense to get another one. I'm open to trying another one, but I'm more interested in the facts of why it would be necessary or help. It not being "on the list" isn't a great reason. Some of those PSU's on that list are 300-400 bucks and if they also don't work, welp....lol

But thanks, I'll keep that thread in mind!

[Archer42]

15 minutes ago, bjorntheblack said:

I do, but the old GPU is two 6 pin connectors, new one is two 8 pins...I'd have to do a lot of swapping around, if it's even possible to do, Like I think i'd have to swap the old PSU and GPU into the new computer...And all that will tell me is "Yes, two different components work when you remove tw others!" which isn't super valuable information. I mean it might point to a bad GPU, but it's not even certain.

New PSU has 6+2 pin connectors, you can definitely use old card in new system. The same is very likely to be true for old system.

 

Thing is, swapping parts like this is the easiest way to find what's broken. Since you have the second system anyway there is no harm in trying really easy things like swapping GPU-s.

 

For example if you have the same problem with new GPU on old system and have no issues with old gpu on new system you can basically be sure that it is gpu issue.

[bjorntheblack]

Just now, Archer42 said:

New PSU has 6+2 pin connectors, you can definitely use old card in new system. The same is very likely to be true for old system.

 

Thing is, swapping parts like this is the easiest way to find what's broken. Since you have the second system anyway there is no harm in trying really easy things like swapping GPU-s.

You're not wrong - and I'll look again tomorrow and see if I can do this. The new PSU's connectors are solid 8-pins, but maybe it came with others...Will have to dig the others out.

 

BUT! If I keep the same PSU in, and the old GPU works...it only tells me that a GPU with a possible (likely!) lower power consumption works with the current PSU...which doesn't necessarily condemn the new GPU. My old PSU is a 750W, so I could try that but seems futile to throw another 100W at it and hope it works. Whole lotta' swappin' for a maybe. And who knows how good that PSU is, lol.

[Archer42]

5 minutes ago, bjorntheblack said:

You're not wrong - and I'll look again tomorrow and see if I can do this. The new PSU's connectors are solid 8-pins, but maybe it came with others...Will have to dig the others out.

 

BUT! If I keep the same PSU in, and the old GPU works...it only tells me that a GPU with a possible (likely!) lower power consumption works with the current PSU...which doesn't necessarily condemn the new GPU. My old PSU is a 750W, so I could try that but seems futile to throw another 100W at it and hope it works. Whole lotta' swappin' for a maybe. And who knows how good that PSU is, lol.

If nothing changes when you swap gpu-s you then swap psu-s and if it does something. If it does not you are pretty much limited to motherboard/ram/cpu.

 

If new system works fine with old gpu you then check old system with new gpu, and may be even swap psu-s too, just to be sure.

 

Troubleshooting pc hardware which has non-obvious issues is always like this... a pain. Having second system helps a lot though...

 

Also IMO psu can be an issue only if its faulty. In terms of power it should be more than enough.

[bjorntheblack]

2 minutes ago, Archer42 said:

If nothing changes when you swap gpu-s you then swap psu-s and if it does something. If it does not you are pretty much limited to motherboard/ram/cpu.

 

If new system works fine with old gpu you then check old system with new gpu, and may be even swap psu-s too, just to be sure.

 

Troubleshooting pc hardware which has non-obvious issues is always like this... a pain. Having second system helps a lot though...

I can't even think about it being CPU right now - it's the only thing that HASN'T given me an issue, lol.

 

The CPU seems fine, at this point I can't imagine it being anything but the GPU or PSU - either way I am sort of boned on it - I've got $3k into a $2k PC and still no dice and maybe more to buy...I always build my own PC's because it's cheaper than a pre-built but at this point I could've gotten a better pre-built for the same. Feelsbadman.jpg

[Archer42]

1 minute ago, bjorntheblack said:

I can't even think about it being CPU right now - it's the only thing that HASN'T given me an issue, lol.

 

The CPU seems fine, at this point I can't imagine it being anything but the GPU or PSU - either way I am sort of boned on it - I've got $3k into a $2k PC and still no dice and maybe more to buy...I always build my own PC's because it's cheaper than a pre-built but at this point I could've gotten a better pre-built for the same. Feelsbadman.jpg

It can be anything at this point IMO.

Did you run a memtest just to confirm there are no issues with RAM? Did you try updating bios?

Also yes, this are the risks of building your own systems. Possibility to run into issues like this caused by anything from compatibility to faulty parts.

Best thing you can do is find what's causing issues and replace it, the only practical way you can do it is checking all the components one by one and making sure they are not faulty.

[bjorntheblack]

37 minutes ago, Archer42 said:

It can be anything at this point IMO.

Did you run a memtest just to confirm there are no issues with RAM? Did you try updating bios?

Also yes, this are the risks of building your own systems. Possibility to run into issues like this caused by anything from compatibility to faulty parts.

Best thing you can do is find what's causing issues and replace it, the only practical way you can do it is checking all the components one by one and making sure they are not faulty.

Have not memtested yet, but mostly because my BIOS has my memory set to 2133mhz (it's 3600mhz RAM) and that's a whole other thing...and changing that is admittedly something I know little about and frankly I'm afraid to even try now...

[LivelyCornet640]

1 hour ago, bjorntheblack said:

You're not wrong - and I'll look again tomorrow and see if I can do this. The new PSU's connectors are solid 8-pins, but maybe it came with others...Will have to dig the others out.

 

BUT! If I keep the same PSU in, and the old GPU works...it only tells me that a GPU with a possible (likely!) lower power consumption works with the current PSU...which doesn't necessarily condemn the new GPU. My old PSU is a 750W, so I could try that but seems futile to throw another 100W at it and hope it works. Whole lotta' swappin' for a maybe. And who knows how good that PSU is, lol.

I'm pretty sure you put the gpu power cable plugged into the psu on the wrong side. I think its supposed to be an 8 pin and a 6+2 pun for the gpu cable, you plugged the 6+2 into the psu rather than the 8 pin

[bjorntheblack]

1 minute ago, LivelyCornet640 said:

I'm pretty sure you put the gpu power cable plugged into the psu on the wrong side. I think its supposed to be an 8 pin and a 6+2 pun for the gpu cable, you plugged the 6+2 into the psu rather than the 8 pin

Ehhhh...would that do it? Didn't even think of that.

 

That would be really funny if it wasn't also so stupid. I will check in the morning...finally headed to bed...

 

Thanks for the idea, will get back to you.

[LivelyCornet640]

Just now, bjorntheblack said:

Ehhhh...would that do it? Didn't even think of that.

 

That would be really funny if it wasn't also so stupid. I will check in the morning...finally headed to bed...

 

Thanks for the idea, will get back to you.

you are welcome, hopefully that is the solution

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, bjorntheblack said:

EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G+

kind of weird all that googling didn't tell you that this power supply doesn't really support 3000 GPU's... 

 

it's even acknowledged by EVGA. 

 

 

[bjorntheblack]

6 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

kind of weird all that googling didn't tell you that this power supply doesn't really support 3000 GPU's... 

 

it's even acknowledged by EVGA. 

 

 

If you could source that it'd be great...I can't find anything except user-speculation and hearsay (i.e. "I hear those PSUs won't work with those cards"). Still looking as we speak, so if I find it I'll post it and say gracias!

[bjorntheblack]

6 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

kind of weird all that googling didn't tell you that this power supply doesn't really support 3000 GPU's... 

 

it's even acknowledged by EVGA. 

 

 

I found this thus far: https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3118557

 

So, I'll order one on the list and get back to you fine folks...

 

I remember a time when a PSU just worked... hah

[Mark Kaine]

22 minutes ago, bjorntheblack said:

If you could source that it'd be great...I can't find anything except user-speculation and hearsay (i.e. "I hear those PSUs won't work with those cards"). Still looking as we speak, so if I find it I'll post it and say gracias!

 

16 minutes ago, bjorntheblack said:

I found this thus far: https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3118557

 

So, I'll order one on the list and get back to you fine folks...

 

I remember a time when a PSU just worked... hah

yeah, I tried finding it, it was on evga forums, but I can't find it now either, I just remember a whole bunch of evga PSUs is affected - and of course you'll always get the random "but mine works!!!" which doesn't help... 

 

I'd try it... I mean this is the typical 3000 gpu issue, shut down under load... you could still try a fresh windows install (I've seen people say this fixed it, weirdly) but I think a new, known to be "compatible" psu has higher chances of fixing this. 

 

 

[bjorntheblack]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

yeah, I tried finding it, it was on evga forums, but I can't find it now either, I just remember a whole bunch of evga PSUs is affected - and of course you'll always get the random "but mine works!!!" which doesn't help... 

 

I'd try it... I mean this is the typical 3000 gpu issue, shut down under load... you could still try a fresh windows install (I've seen people say this fixed it, weirdly) but I think a new, known to be "compatible" psu has higher chances of fixing this. 

 

 

Ordered a Seasonic PX 850 (largely because it is available!)...will be here Saturday. Will give it another go and report back.

[LivelyCornet640]

1 hour ago, bjorntheblack said:

Ordered a Seasonic PX 850 (largely because it is available!)...will be here Saturday. Will give it another go and report back.

did fliping the gpu cable work?

[bjorntheblack]

Small update:

 

@LivelyCornet640 was correct in that I had the cables flopped around. Whoops. Not sure how much that woupd make a difference...I'd think voltage to a pin is voltage to a pin, but.

 

Also on the PSU, one GPU 2-pin could be pushed in a bit. Not sure it it was loose enough to make a difference. And it might have been from tugging the PSU out anyway.

 

Since I cant really be sure ans don't trust this PSU wattage anymore, I'm just going to swap to a 850w Seasonic.

 

I have already ordered the bigger PSU, so rather than try this one yet again when it seems practically no one is using a 650w PSU with these cards, I am just going to wait until Saturday and complete the swap.

 

But good call by LivelyCornet640, whether it would've been the cause or not, you were right and kudos to you, you had to read this whole shit show to even suggest that!

[bjorntheblack]

Just now, LivelyCornet640 said:

did fliping the gpu cable work?

Haha, we posted at the same time. It was flipped,  but I am just going to swap the PSU since this one is on nobodies "this works with these cards" list. Practically every PSU is 750w or more, for starters. You made a good call, though. I'd say I could try it just for the sake of it but I'd have to put it all back together just to go "Ah, shit. Still no worky."

[Mark Kaine]

11 hours ago, LivelyCornet640 said:

I'm pretty sure you put the gpu power cable plugged into the psu on the wrong side

it's very weird they (manufacturer) would do that, I just checked it's physically impossible to plug my gpu power cables "the wrong way"... 

 

54 minutes ago, bjorntheblack said:

Practically every PSU is 750w or more, for starters.

 

no issues whatsoever... (although I'm planning to replace it in fact, for some overclocking headroom and also more efficiency) 

 

it's not so much the wattage, even though you obviously really need to meet the "minimum" you can get away with, which we calculated in my case, and it was like 498w or something...! But the psu also has a peak power delivery of 620w or something... 

 

It's really more the quality of a psu and how it works internally, just buying a high wattage psu isn't a guarantee for anything it may have the same issues as one with lower wattage... 

 

But I still think exchanging that PSU is a right move, especially after plugging in the cables the wrong way, who knows what that did, if it did....! 

[bjorntheblack]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

it's very weird they (manufacturer) would do that, I just checked it's physically impossible to plug my gpu power cables "the wrong way"... 

 

 

no issues whatsoever... (although I'm planning to replace it in fact, for some overclocking headroom and also more efficiency) 

 

it's not so much the wattage, even though you obviously really need to meet the "minimum" you can get away with, which we calculated in my case, and it was like 498w or something...! But the psu also has a peak power delivery of 620w or something... 

 

It's really more the quality of a psu and how it works internally, just buying a high wattage psu isn't a guarantee for anything it may have the same issues as one with lower wattage... 

 

But I still think exchanging that PSU is a right move, especially after plugging in the cables the wrong way, who knows what that did, if it did....! 

Yeah the cables thing wqs definitely a bonehead move. The 6+2 pins were not easily separated, but still...I'm sure at the time I thought "Oh they're just all 8 pins now!" since my last build was in 2015 when both were prevalent, figured 6+2 just became a dinosaur!

 

I'm surprised to see a 500w working tbh, my build also is specced to 498w and that's not counting all the fans and lights!

 

I will keep you folks in the loop. I'm hopeful...I suppose it could still be RAM since mine is 3600 and the BIOS has it set to 2133...Maybe the CPU hates that...Not sure.

[IkeaGnome]

1 hour ago, bjorntheblack said:

Yeah the cables thing wqs definitely a bonehead move. The 6+2 pins were not easily separated, but still...I'm sure at the time I thought "Oh they're just all 8 pins now!" since my last build was in 2015 when both were prevalent, figured 6+2 just became a dinosaur!

 

I'm surprised to see a 500w working tbh, my build also is specced to 498w and that's not counting all the fans and lights!

 

I will keep you folks in the loop. I'm hopeful...I suppose it could still be RAM since mine is 3600 and the BIOS has it set to 2133...Maybe the CPU hates that...Not sure.

It could still be the GPU. Putting the cables in backwards could lead to weird connections. The CPU should run just fine with 2133. It's a basic JEDEC spec. About all it waould cause is lower FPS issues if you are using the CPU hard. Computer should still POST and run just fine at 2133.

 

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