I have hardware, I just don't know what to do with it.

[ilovetoad]

Budget (including currency): £0

Country: UK

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Media Server and Home Assistant

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): 

 

Okay, bear with me. I have hardware, some of it is set up - I like DIY things, I like repurposing things. I've set my budget as £0 but really it's "I don't want to spend any money if I can help it" but I will if I need to.

 

I was introduced to the "techie" world in 2018 when I started gaming with some new friends via my xbox, they were all on PC and so Feb 2019, with no prior experience I decided to build my own PC. It literally took me 24 hours - I had no idea what I was doing and couldn't work out what a Molex from a Sata was. I gamed for a good year but then the group drifted apart, I also met my new partner (gaming filled a gap in my life!) and I didn't turn my PC on for months. Last year when he moved in, I bought some Hue bulbs and then the home automation thing just spiralled. I now run a small amount of home automation stuff, and when I had finished most of the lights I noticed I could integrate Plex into Home Assistant. HASSIO runs all the lights, motion sensors, door sensors etc. I dragged in my mums old PC I had just stuck outside for scrap and got to work with hard drives I had salvaged from that PC and my brothers dead laptop. My current setup is as follows:

 

Upstairs PC - I7 processor, 16gb ddr4 ram, 1060 GB GPU, 750gb SSD - linux installed and all documents have been moved to google drive. I currently am trying to install docker and traefik on it.

Downstairs PC - Old MS-7800 mobo, 8gb ddr3 ram, AMD A10-5800 cpu, Linux with sabnzd, sonarr, plex, radarr etc. I use teamviewer from upstairs pc to remote into it - noticed it hates calibre so uninstalled that.

 

I now have acquired from my work a Fujitsu Celsius M470-2 - Xeon E5630@2.53GHz, 12GB ram, has 4 caddies in it and a basic 710 graphics card (for hdmi output). Basically a ten year old server machine. No harddrives but has space for at least 7 drives, takes a mix of SCSI and sata. This has nothing installed at the moment as I just picked it up.

 

I'm prepared to upgrade that machine if its possible, or even if its required - one day I'll perhaps get a proper little nas or QNAP but I'm operating on a single mother budget at the moment.

 

I also have an iPad pro and was pleasantly surprised to realise I can use a mouse and keyboard with it.

 

Basically I have a lot of old tech, I want to do things with it but my use case isn't as detailed as some of the builds on here!

 

With all the above I would like to run an efficient media server, pihole, home assistant, be able to browse the internet, and maybe I'll find new projects.

 

So if you were me what would you do with all the above? Which hardware would you use for what?

 

 

 

 

[jj9987]

https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted

 

Also checkout /r/homelab, might find some ideas from there.

[ilovetoad]

1 minute ago, jj9987 said:

https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted

 

Also checkout /r/homelab, might find some ideas from there.

awesome self hosted was one of the first resources I came across, the problem I've got is that I don't know which hardware to use for what. That github was a 4 hour rabbit hole!!!!

[SupaKomputa]

The xeon server can be multipurpose NAS & smarthome server.

 

[ilovetoad]

27 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

The xeon server can be multipurpose NAS & smarthome server.

 

You think it's worth it? I'm worried its too old or would perform worse than the "crappy pc" downstairs. Just trying to work out the best arrangement. I had thought I could set it up as a NAS, but then how would I link that to the PC downstairs? I don't think I will need transcoding etc because I don't stream plex externally but my sister may want to use my plex so there is a possibility.

[TehDwonz]

47 minutes ago, ilovetoad said:

[snip]

 

I now have acquired from my work a Fujitsu Celsius M470-2 - Xeon E5630@2.53GHz, 12GB ram, has 4 caddies in it and a basic 710 graphics card (for hdmi output). Basically a ten year old server machine. No harddrives but has space for at least 7 drives, takes a mix of SCSI and sata. This has nothing installed at the moment as I just picked it up.

 

I'm prepared to upgrade that machine if its possible, or even if its required - one day I'll perhaps get a proper little nas or QNAP but I'm operating on a single mother budget at the moment.

 

[snip]

Not a bad machine that. Consider installing Proxmox on it - then you can set up virtual machine versions of your servers. Might need some more RAM in time, but it's fine for initial setup and tinkering. Processor and RAM compatibility here: https://sp.ts.fujitsu.com/dmsp/Publications/public/ds-CELSIUS-M470-2.pdf

 

I run a few older "X58" era systems myself. At the moment, the best bang-for-the-buck CPU is probably the X5675, which can be had on AliExpress for £15-£16. More pricey on ebay, but if you don't mind the potential 30+ day delivery, AliExpress is a great option. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32760264745.html

 

RAM is the potentially costly part - how many of the 6 slots are filled, and with what size modules?

[TehDwonz]

4 minutes ago, ilovetoad said:

You think it's worth it? I'm worried its too old or would perform worse than the "crappy pc" downstairs. Just trying to work out the best arrangement. I had thought I could set it up as a NAS, but then how would I link that to the PC downstairs? I don't think I will need transcoding etc because I don't stream plex externally but my sister may want to use my plex so there is a possibility.

As just a NAS alone, it'd be wasted power tbh. 90% of the time it'd be idle - may as well have it doing other things too. You can also just experiment with new software and operating systems without additional hardware clutter and cost. Performance wise, it would only struggle with multiple parallel 1080p transcodes - one should be fine. 4K is obv a no-go without a GPU. My Plex server runs on my dual X5675 server, but it's only set up with 6 virtual CPU cores/threads.

[ilovetoad]

25 minutes ago, TehDwonz said:

As just a NAS alone, it'd be wasted power tbh. 90% of the time it'd be idle - may as well have it doing other things too. You can also just experiment with new software and operating systems without additional hardware clutter and cost. Performance wise, it would only struggle with multiple parallel 1080p transcodes - one should be fine. 4K is obv a no-go without a GPU. My Plex server runs on my dual X5675 server, but it's only set up with 6 virtual CPU cores/threads.

I did think as a NAS it would be a bit wasted, but wasn't sure whether switching it to my "media machine" would decrease performance compared to the machine downstairs. Or whether the two could work together somehow.

 

Ramwise, it has 12gb in the form of 6x2gb. Manual says it supports 24gb but wondered whether I could go higher? 6x8gb for instance. I'm happy to get more ram secondhand on ebay, looks fairly cheap. And I'm happy to wait for delivery from alixpress, I mean for £20ish the benchmark on that cpu you suggested is double the current one so it's a nobrainer.

 

It has a GPU in it, well you can barely call it a gpu.... I've put a GT 710 in as it was cheap and gives me a hdmi port so I can put a dummy hdmi plug in. It had a ns300 in it, which made me laugh.

 

It also has a sata expansion card in it so I have a total of 10 ports available.

[TehDwonz]

1 minute ago, ilovetoad said:

I did think as a NAS it would be a bit wasted, but wasn't sure whether switching it to my "media machine" would decrease performance compared to the machine downstairs. Or whether the two could work together somehow.

 

Ramwise, it has 12gb in the form of 6x2gb. Manual says it supports 24gb but wondered whether I could go higher? 6x8gb for instance. I'm happy to get more ram secondhand on ebay, looks fairly cheap. And I'm happy to wait for delivery from alixpress, I mean for £20ish the benchmark on that cpu you suggested is double the current one so it's a nobrainer.

 

It has a GPU in it, well you can barely call it a gpu.... I've put a GT 710 in as it was cheap and gives me a hdmi port so I can put a dummy hdmi plug in. It had a ns300 in it, which made me laugh.

 

It also has a sata expansion card in it so I have a total of 10 ports available.

 

Shame all the RAM slots are filled - but that era of CPU/shipset allows up to 48GB unbuffered ECC DDR3, as the spec sheet suggests - 24 might be a limitation of the current CPU? Would have to check on Intel-Ark.
I prefer to go for registered ECC though, as any RAM errors can really mess up my ZFS arrays. Best to look for PC3-10600R modules - and watch out for PC3L-10600R modules, as some sellers mix them in by mistake. The L parts are a lower voltage and can't be mixed. Some chipsets can support them, but I have more success with the non-L versions on X58.

I know it's additional cost, but also consider a small UPS for this too - maybe even choosing that over buying more RAM to start with.

 

As you have the hardware, you can always set up Proxmox before any upgrades, to see if it's for you. As you already use Linux though, you should find it very familiar.

[ilovetoad]

5 minutes ago, TehDwonz said:

 

Shame all the RAM slots are filled - but that era of CPU/shipset allows up to 48GB unbuffered ECC DDR3, as the spec sheet suggests - 24 might be a limitation of the current CPU? Would have to check on Intel-Ark.
I prefer to go for registered ECC though, as any RAM errors can really mess up my ZFS arrays. Best to look for PC3-10600R modules - and watch out for PC3L-10600R modules, as some sellers mix them in by mistake. The L parts are a lower voltage and can't be mixed. Some chipsets can support them, but I have more success with the non-L versions on X58.

I know it's additional cost, but also consider a small UPS for this too - maybe even choosing that over buying more RAM to start with.

 

As you have the hardware, you can always set up Proxmox before any upgrades, to see if it's for you. As you already use Linux though, you should find it very familiar.

I have a funny feeling the mobo doesn't support registered. I may have made that up but I definitely read something this morning. I'll have to go double check.

 

I think it is a limitation of the current CPU.

UPS would be a good idea. I've been staring at my living room layout working out how I'm going to supply the power to a 700w PSU whilst not overloading my circuits. We're extension cable central here. I've actually never checked or added up the load on each socket but I probably should do that. I think I may have a socket I can dedicate to the machine or at least one that just the robot vacuum and server can run off. I'd put it upstairs and run the ethernet through powerlines but I can only get about 20mbps of the 1000 I'm supposed to get. Downstairs when plugged into a switch I can get around 800 mbps. Although the "crappy" pc has a bottleneck at the moment due to the various array of things attached to it.

[TehDwonz]

1 minute ago, ilovetoad said:

I have a funny feeling the mobo doesn't support registered. I may have made that up but I definitely read something this morning. I'll have to go double check.

 

I think it is a limitation of the current CPU.

UPS would be a good idea. I've been staring at my living room layout working out how I'm going to supply the power to a 700w PSU whilst not overloading my circuits. We're extension cable central here. I've actually never checked or added up the load on each socket but I probably should do that. I think I may have a socket I can dedicate to the machine or at least one that just the robot vacuum and server can run off. I'd put it upstairs and run the ethernet through powerlines but I can only get about 20mbps of the 1000 I'm supposed to get. Downstairs when plugged into a switch I can get around 800 mbps. Although the "crappy" pc has a bottleneck at the moment due to the various array of things attached to it.

You could be right about the chipset. ECC unbuffered is still better than no ECC at all. 

 

For power, each UK outlet is 13A, so just over 3KW. I wouldn't go anywhere near that though, for a sustained load. Aim for no more than 2.4KW (10A @ 240V). If you have to use those multi-way extensions, put the largest load at the socket nearest the cable end, with the lighter loads like phone chargers at the far end.

Definitely worth noting down the power requirements of each device - and it's the mains side, not the device side, you need to be concerned with. So if there is no wattage printed on something, it will have the current requirements in Amps. Just multiple Amps by the average mains voltage (240) to get the power in watts.

 

Those powerline adapters are a pain. They need essentially "perfect" mains wiring, which nobody has. Definitely a no go for a server. Maybe it's also time to take up some DIY skills too and run some network cables?  

[ilovetoad]

1 minute ago, TehDwonz said:

You could be right about the chipset. ECC unbuffered is still better than no ECC at all. 

 

For power, each UK outlet is 13A, so just over 3KW. I wouldn't go anywhere near that though, for a sustained load. Aim for no more than 2.4KW (10A @ 240V). If you have to use those multi-way extensions, put the largest load at the socket nearest the cable end, with the lighter loads like phone chargers at the far end.

Definitely worth noting down the power requirements of each device - and it's the mains side, not the device side, you need to be concerned with. So if there is no wattage printed on something, it will have the current requirements in Amps. Just multiple Amps by the average mains voltage (240) to get the power in watts.

 

Those powerline adapters are a pain. They need essentially "perfect" mains wiring, which nobody has. Definitely a no go for a server. Maybe it's also time to take up some DIY skills too and run some network cables?  

Its funny you should mention that because I have been teaching myself how to make custom length ethernet cables. My son wanted to know what I was doing with a massive reel, "Crimping son, I'm crimping". I don't particularly want to drill a hole in my ceiling, even though the server would be directly above the entry point of t'interweb. So I'd have to run a cable around the room, across a hallway, up the stairs, under the carpet to the other end of the study which is directly above  the starting point. the only ugly bit would be the hallway but I could run it overhead, and you wouldn't see it once disappeared up there. So, I have already been planning that! I already have a cable going from the modem to the router, then from the router to the other side of the living room, into a switch and then out again to all the devices downstairs.

 

I'll have to go do some calculations, I think all the other extensions are fine as most of the things running off them are smart lights and RGB strips but I am at a 10 gang extension for each socket situation!

 

So if I was to turn the server, well, into a server - I'm worried that if it's handling the downloading AND streaming that I might experience stuttering. Does it make sense to have a two machine set up? One downloads, sends it to the server which then does the streaming. The downloading is pretty constant as I have trakt automations etc set up.

[TehDwonz]

2 minutes ago, ilovetoad said:

Its funny you should mention that because I have been teaching myself how to make custom length ethernet cables. My son wanted to know what I was doing with a massive reel, "Crimping son, I'm crimping". I don't particularly want to drill a hole in my ceiling, even though the server would be directly above the entry point of t'interweb. So I'd have to run a cable around the room, across a hallway, up the stairs, under the carpet to the other end of the study which is directly above  the starting point. the only ugly bit would be the hallway but I could run it overhead, and you wouldn't see it once disappeared up there. So, I have already been planning that! I already have a cable going from the modem to the router, then from the router to the other side of the living room, into a switch and then out again to all the devices downstairs.

 

I'll have to go do some calculations, I think all the other extensions are fine as most of the things running off them are smart lights and RGB strips but I am at a 10 gang extension for each socket situation!

 

So if I was to turn the server, well, into a server - I'm worried that if it's handling the downloading AND streaming that I might experience stuttering. Does it make sense to have a two machine set up? One downloads, sends it to the server which then does the streaming. The downloading is pretty constant as I have trakt automations etc set up.

 

Love that "Crimping son" line, haha. I'm about to order this, because... I totally need it, honest. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32891233601.html

 

I have a few 10 gangs, and it's fine. High power stuff like my AV receiver is direct into the wall, but the TV etc all run off multi-ways no problem.

 

For the bandwidth question, this may also need some calculations. The downloads might be constant, but surely not at the full speed of your Internet connection? Each virtual machine can be rate-limited on their virtual network card if you wanted, as well as the option to set up QoS priority for certain network traffic (within your LAN). So you could give Plex priority and no rate-limit, for example, and give torrents a low priority and maybe cap the maximum bandwidth? QoS is usually supported on modern home routers - might just be a tickbox in the settings, with no additional control, but you can sort out packet tagging on the individual PCs and VMs. As far as I know, the typical UK provider routers from Virgin and BT do support/respect QoS tags.

[ilovetoad]

1 hour ago, TehDwonz said:

 

Love that "Crimping son" line, haha. I'm about to order this, because... I totally need it, honest. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32891233601.html

 

I have a few 10 gangs, and it's fine. High power stuff like my AV receiver is direct into the wall, but the TV etc all run off multi-ways no problem.

 

For the bandwidth question, this may also need some calculations. The downloads might be constant, but surely not at the full speed of your Internet connection? Each virtual machine can be rate-limited on their virtual network card if you wanted, as well as the option to set up QoS priority for certain network traffic (within your LAN). So you could give Plex priority and no rate-limit, for example, and give torrents a low priority and maybe cap the maximum bandwidth? QoS is usually supported on modern home routers - might just be a tickbox in the settings, with no additional control, but you can sort out packet tagging on the individual PCs and VMs. As far as I know, the typical UK provider routers from Virgin and BT do support/respect QoS tags.

Holy sheetballs batman, that tests as well? Man I need that in my life!!!

WEll...on the crappy pc the downloads are not only constant they are also currently dead slow. I don't know at what speed they go at overnight, but during the day I get max 20 m/bs. I mean its not slow slow, but its slow for me.... You know what, I actually haven't looked at the QoS settings on my router, I know I can change them though. I just never bothered. I have TalkTalk, which is notoriously bad however my area has "UFO" which is the ultra fast optics to the house stuff, I have a big white modem on the wall and then a Sagemcom Fast 5364 hub. Which actually isn't that bad, I was previously with Virgin and their router was god awful, but the TalkTalk one proved to be better than the £160 Nighthawk router I bought (which died). I bought the nighthawk one for the mu mimo and beamforming, then found out the ISP one had that as well. It's probably all whistles and bells but dammit I wanted those whistles and bells.

 

So we thinking? crappy PC should go? It's surplus?

[TehDwonz]

21 hours ago, ilovetoad said:

Holy sheetballs batman, that tests as well? Man I need that in my life!!!

WEll...on the crappy pc the downloads are not only constant they are also currently dead slow. I don't know at what speed they go at overnight, but during the day I get max 20 m/bs. I mean its not slow slow, but its slow for me.... You know what, I actually haven't looked at the QoS settings on my router, I know I can change them though. I just never bothered. I have TalkTalk, which is notoriously bad however my area has "UFO" which is the ultra fast optics to the house stuff, I have a big white modem on the wall and then a Sagemcom Fast 5364 hub. Which actually isn't that bad, I was previously with Virgin and their router was god awful, but the TalkTalk one proved to be better than the £160 Nighthawk router I bought (which died). I bought the nighthawk one for the mu mimo and beamforming, then found out the ISP one had that as well. It's probably all whistles and bells but dammit I wanted those whistles and bells.

 

So we thinking? crappy PC should go? It's surplus?

You could probably merge the downloading PC into the "new" one yes, but is an i7 setup not infinitely better than the A10-5800 one? I had that pre-ryzen CPU made of lies (it's dual core lying about being quad)... 

[ilovetoad]

8 hours ago, TehDwonz said:

You could probably merge the downloading PC into the "new" one yes, but is an i7 setup not infinitely better than the A10-5800 one? I had that pre-ryzen CPU made of lies (it's dual core lying about being quad)... 

I hate proxmox.