10700k... Throttling, but at temps I don't understand.

[i_build_nanosuits]

20 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

A lot of ASRock's Z490 boards failed (e.g. VRM exceeds 105*C+, VRM and/or CPU thermal throttles) .

The Gigabyte Z490M (or what is the Z490 UD) was another board with throttling VRMs.

 

EDIT: Ahh... I remember Hardware (Hammer) Unboxed did some budget Z490 testing..

 

wow Asrock boards this time around...LLC lvl 1 only too and already it's pushing it...dang.

Could very likely just edit some stuff in the bios and make it run 4500mhz no problem tho i reckon...stock probably pulls way more than it needs.

[Entropy.]

@-rascal-hmm alright. I updated my build in my signature, and Happen to have just over $320 burning a hole in my amazon account. Any suggested upgrades? I'm looking at a better motherboard, Better cpu cooler, and maybe selling my (current) motherboard and getting a better psu.  

[-rascal-]

I wasn't able to find professional reviews for the ASUS Z490-V, but it looks like it uses an IDENTICAL VRM layout + design as the ASUS Z490M-PLUS.

Buildzoid recommended the Z490M-PLUS if you need a basic / office PC, and would mentioned it be okay if overclocking an i5-10600K.

The Z490M-PLUS and Z490-V both uses a 4(x2) + 1 phase VRM, which isn't great for overclocking higher core count CPUs.

 

He actually recommended the MSi Z490-A PRO instead, as it is a 6(x2) + 1 VRM, and better heatsinks.

 

 

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, unclewebb said:

I am not sure what this means. Intel CPUs use full turbo boost right up to the point that they start thermal throttling.

 

VR shows voltage regulator related throttling. PL1, PL2, PL3 are the power limits. If your CPU is not running at full speed, it is usally one or the other.

SlashedM is thinking about the type of turbo boost behavior on new Ryzen CPUs and GPUs from AMD and Nvidia, in which you lose frequency just because the silicon got warm even if it's still well within Tjmax.

 

52 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

Oh okay, It exceeded the power limit of the CPU. Is that to do with the VRMs or should I increase the power limit? Like should I make any altercations? 

Dont raise the power limit if you dont get any VRM temperature readout. Even if it does, only raise it if it stays below 90C.

[Entropy.]

1 minute ago, -rascal- said:

I wasn't able to find professional reviews for the ASUS Z490-V, but it looks like it uses an IDENTICAL VRM layout + design as the ASUS Z490M-PLUS.

Buildzoid recommended the Z490M-PLUS if you need a basic / office PC, and would mentioned it be okay if overclocking an i5-10600K.

The Z490M-PLUS and Z490-V both uses a 4(x2) + 1 phase VRM, which isn't great for overclocking higher core count CPUs.

 

He actually recommended the MSi Z490-A PRO instead, as it is a 6(x2) + 1 VRM, and better heatsinks.

 

 

Yeah, I saw that a few times, actually watched it last night. Do you recommend the ~$200 motherboards that he shows, like the z490 edge and vision g? 

[-rascal-]

7 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

wow Asrock boards this time around...LLC lvl 1 only too and already it's pushing it...dang.

Could very likely just edit some stuff in the bios and make it run 4500mhz no problem tho i reckon...stock probably pulls way more than it needs.

 

Yeah...ASRock really dropped the ball this time around with Z490.

 

6 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

@-rascal-hmm alright. I updated my build in my signature, and Happen to have just over $320 burning a hole in my amazon account. Any suggested upgrades? I'm looking at a better motherboard, Better cpu cooler, and maybe selling my (current) motherboard and getting a better psu.  

 

Better CPU  motherboard and cooler is all you really need, as far as I can see...

[Entropy.]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

SlashedM is thinking about the type of turbo boost behavior on new Ryzen CPUs and GPUs from AMD and Nvidia, in which you lose frequency just because the silicon got warm even if it's still well within Tjmax.

 

Dont raise the power limit if you dont get any VRM temperature readout. Even if it does, only raise it if it stays below 90C.

Got it. Firing up p95 to take a look at the vrm temps now. 

[Entropy.]

Just now, -rascal- said:

 

Yeah...ASRock really dropped the ball this time around with Z490.

 

Better CPU and cooler is all you really need, as far as I can see...

uhhh... Better... cpu?  heh. 

[Entropy.]

4 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

Yeah...ASRock really dropped the ball this time around with Z490.

 

 

Better CPU and cooler is all you really need, as far as I can see...

In HWinfo the vrm temps should be listed as VRM MOS or something rright? I can't find anything labelled near that. 

[-rascal-]

9 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

uhhh... Better... cpu?  heh. 

 

Whoops! Meant motherboard.

 

How much is the Gigabyte Z490 Vision G?

If you want to stick with ASUS, the ASUS PRIME Z490-A would be a decent budget board, too.

At least in my region, the Vision G is the exact same price as the Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite, and the ASUS Z490-A.

 

4 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

In HWinfo the vrm temps should be listed as VRM MOS or something rright? I can't find anything labelled near that. 

 

It will depend on the board...but yes... it shows up as 'VRM MOS' for my Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master, under the ITE IT8688E, which is one of the temperature control controllers on the board.

 

 

[Entropy.]

2 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

Whoops! Meant motherboard.

 

How much is the Gigabyte Z490 Vision G?

If you want to stick with ASUS, the ASUS PRIME Z490-A would be a decent budget board, too.

At least in my region, the Vision G is the exact same price as the Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite, and the ASUS Z490-A.

 

The vision g, gaming edge, z490 elite, and z490-a are all 200-210 [usd]

[-rascal-]

2 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

The vision g, gaming edge, z490 elite, and z490-a are all 200-210 [usd]

 

Updated my previous comment with VRM temperature monitoring...

 

In that case, I'd get either the Z490 Aorus Elite, or the Z490-A...personally.

I've used a couple Gigabyte Aorus boards (B450 Elite 2x, X570 Ultra, Z390 Aorus Master), and pretty good results so far.

Otherwise, it's ASUS boards, which I find has the most refined UEFI BIOS interface.

 

[Entropy.]

6 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

Updated my previous comment with VRM temperature monitoring...

 

In that case, I'd get either the Z490 Aorus Elite, or the Z490-A...personally.

I've used a couple Gigabyte Aorus boards (B450 Elite 2x, X570 Ultra, Z390 Aorus Master), and pretty good results so far.

Otherwise, it's ASUS boards, which I find has the most refined UEFI BIOS interface.

 

hmm so is that just based on your personal preference of the boards only or do you know which one 'performs' the best- VRM power delivery, oc'ing capability, vrm temps, ect. 

[-rascal-]

34 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

hmm so is that just based on your personal preference of the boards only or do you know which one 'performs' the best- VRM power delivery, oc'ing capability, vrm temps, ect. 

 

I tried to look for a review that included the ASUS PRIME Z490-A, Gigabyte Z490 Vision G, and Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite...but no such luck.

If you look at the spec of the FETs used for the power stages for the VRM...just the CPU part

• Vision G is 12 phase (12 true phases) using SiC651A FETs, rated at 50A each
• Aorus Elite is also 12 phase (12 true phases) using the same SiC651A 50A FETs... only ting different is the heatsink and layout of them vs the Vision G.
• ASUS PRIME Z490-A is 12 phase (6 true phase with doublers) but using NCP302045 FETs, rated at 45A each

Hardware Unboxed has a Z490 review with both the Vision G and Aorus Elite.

The VRMs on the Aorus Elite consistently running a few *C cooler than the Vision G...but not much (2*C ~ 3*C better).

 

To be honest, either one will be 100% fine when paired with an OC'ed i7-10700K.

 

FYI, my cheat sheet (there are a couple for AMD AM4 motherboards, Intel Z390 / Z370, etc).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yPS3hj_K7EPT4RBWCyjdKNP56pnwDz-IgBc0975-FUg/edit#gid=0

 

 

[-rascal-]

Whoops...quoted myself

[Entropy.]

11 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

I tried to look for a review that included the ASUS PRIME Z490-A, Gigabyte Z490 Vision G, and Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite...but no such luck.

If you look at the spec of the FETs used for the power stages for the VRM...just the CPU part

• Vision G is 12 phase (12 true phases) using SiC651A FETs, rated at 50A each
• Aorus Elite is also 12 phase (12 true phases) using the same SiC651A 50A FETs... only ting different is the heatsink and layout of them vs the Vision G.
• ASUS PRIME Z490-A is 12 phase (6 true phase with doublers) but using NCP302045 FETs, rated at 45A each

Hardware Unboxed has a Z490 review with both the Vision G and Aorus Elite.

The VRMs on the Aorus Elite consistently running a few *C cooler than the Vision G...but not much (2*C ~ 3*C better).

 

To be honest, either one will be 100% fine when paired with an OC'ed i7-10700K.

 

FYI, my cheat sheet (there are a couple for AMD AM4 motherboards, Intel Z390 / Z370, etc).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yPS3hj_K7EPT4RBWCyjdKNP56pnwDz-IgBc0975-FUg/edit#gid=0

 

 

Oohhh nice. Thanks man. I'll put that link In my signature. Thanks again

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

In HWinfo the vrm temps should be listed as VRM MOS or something rright? I can't find anything labelled near that. 

It should just say VRM, lack of transparency on commonly used readings is a problem of Asus so you might not have VRM temperature readout at all. It could shutdown when it overheats, but unless you add your own thermal probes you will never know how hot it actually gets.

 

Is this the latest version of Hwinfo? Hwinfo's devs did get in touch with Asus and opened up VRM temperature reading on some boards, though I'm not surprised if it's limited to boards with high end voltage controllers that support temperature monitoring.

[Entropy.]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

It should just say VRM, lack of transparency on commonly used readings is a problem of Asus so you might not have VRM temperature readout at all. It could shutdown when it overheats, but unless you add your own thermal probes you will never know how hot it actually gets.

 

Is this the latest version of Hwinfo? Hwinfo's devs did get in touch with Asus and opened up VRM temperature reading on some boards, though I'm not surprised if it's limited to boards with high end voltage controllers that support temperature monitoring.

Ah, that's convenient. Just so turns out that I wasn't on the latest version. However, No further info appeared after I installed it. lol thanks anyways.

[Entropy.]

13 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

It should just say VRM, lack of transparency on commonly used readings is a problem of Asus so you might not have VRM temperature readout at all. It could shutdown when it overheats, but unless you add your own thermal probes you will never know how hot it actually gets.

 

Is this the latest version of Hwinfo? Hwinfo's devs did get in touch with Asus and opened up VRM temperature reading on some boards, though I'm not surprised if it's limited to boards with high end voltage controllers that support temperature monitoring.

Hmmm... since you're here, I wanted to ask if you guys are working on a lga 1200 motherboard tier list? I saw the google spreadsheet and didn't see much. Is it in serious works?

[-rascal-]

21 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

Hmmm... since you're here, I wanted to ask if you guys are working on a lga 1200 motherboard tier list? I saw the google spreadsheet and didn't see much. Is it in serious works?

 

Not sure if people will commit to that.

Intel Z490 and AMD B550 both spilled into the market at the same time, and I think majority of the interwebs was more interested in AMD B550.

(I think people finally got sick of Intel's 14nm+++++++   +'ness)

 

NOW Intel supposedly shortened the release date of 11th Gen, as they "showcased" it at CES 2021, and unveiled the i9-11900K, and gave a March 2021 release time window. We'll have Z590 boards in 2 ~ 3 months time... 

 

11th Gen Intel is still 14nm.

Apparently "10nm ported down to 14nm" ... whatever the F that means...?

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16390/intel-previews-11th-gen-core-rocket-lake-core-i911900k-and-z590-coming-q1

 

 

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

Hmmm... since you're here, I wanted to ask if you guys are working on a lga 1200 motherboard tier list? I saw the google spreadsheet and didn't see much. Is it in serious works?

Z590 yes because I deem the CPUs interesting. Z490... eh, maybe I'll cover some of them. I didnt do them for 10th gen because it's just bigger Skylake, boring as f.

[Entropy.]

On 1/12/2021 at 10:25 AM, -rascal- said:

 

Not sure if people will commit to that.

Intel Z490 and AMD B550 both spilled into the market at the same time, and I think majority of the interwebs was more interested in AMD B550.

(I think people finally got sick of Intel's 14nm+++++++   +'ness)

 

NOW Intel supposedly shortened the release date of 11th Gen, as they "showcased" it at CES 2021, and unveiled the i9-11900K, and gave a March 2021 release time window. We'll have Z590 boards in 2 ~ 3 months time... 

 

11th Gen Intel is still 14nm.

Apparently "10nm ported down to 14nm" ... whatever the F that means...?

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16390/intel-previews-11th-gen-core-rocket-lake-core-i911900k-and-z590-coming-q1

 

 

Damn, it just occurred to me- My PSU only has a single 8 pin for EPS power to the cpu- no additional 4/8 pin. This could affect it when overclocking at the level that I was doing right? At ~5.0ghz+ under full load, at 175-185w of sustained power draw? Of course, it can sustain that clock for at least 30 seconds, up to 1-2 minutes. what do you think? 

[unclewebb]

2 hours ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

My PSU only has a single 8 pin for EPS power to the cpu- no additional 4/8 pin.

I have an Asus board and the manual says the 4 pin connector is optional.

 

I have seen power consumption hit over 300 Watts without any issues without anything plugged in to the 4 pin socket.

 

The 10700K has a TDP rating of 125W. If your BIOS set the turbo power limits based on this value, of course your CPU is not going to run at full speed when fully loaded. Did you ever go into the BIOS and try increasing the long and short turbo power limits? 200W to 250W is more appropriate for a 10700K. Go up in steps of 25W or 50W and watch for any throttling in HWiNFO. How do you know what your motherboard is capable of if you do not challenge it?  

 

Top tier motherboards automatically set the turbo power limits much higher when overclocking. On a lower end motherboard, you have to go into the BIOS and adjust these settings yourself.

[-rascal-]

6 hours ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

Damn, it just occurred to me- My PSU only has a single 8 pin for EPS power to the cpu- no additional 4/8 pin. This could affect it when overclocking at the level that I was doing right? At ~5.0ghz+ under full load, at 175-185w of sustained power draw? Of course, it can sustain that clock for at least 30 seconds, up to 1-2 minutes. what do you think? 

 

Single EPS 8-pin is 384W.

i7-10700K at even....theoretical 6.0 GHz probably won't even exceed that.

 

[SavageNeo]

it can be either VRM thermalthrottling or pwer throttling. probably both actually. And 120mm aio is not that good. even if it would be Atric freezer 120/140mm at push and pull.