Stop Children What's That Sound... GPU shortages :P

[papajo]

The situation with GPU shortages of the late year remind me a lot of this  Buffalo Springfield song and the reason they got inspired to sing it I assume.

 

(and PLEASE MODS DON'T TRANSFERE THIS TO THE GPU SECTION I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL HARDWARE BUT RATHER OF A SOCIAL EVENT DRIVEN BY THE MAIN GPU DESIGNERS PRETTY THANKS  also sorry for the caps and bolds just want to make sure you notice that before deciding thanks again)

 

 

 

 

I mean first there were the "bad altcoin miners" who denied our supposedly $180 RX 580s and all the rest of the GPU derailing the prices... 

 

But this explanation always didn't sit right with me...I mean ok.. Demand has risen... but its not that there isnt enough silicon (basically as abundant as sand on earth...  )

 

I heard some apologetics about that like "companies dont want to risk producing more and then having lots of unsold stock" which also didnt ever sit with me well, I mean yea this would be the case if they were stupid and increased the production to e.g 100 times or something... 

 

They just could marginally increase the supply and see if still most retailers and partners have their stock sold out "instandly" then again marginally increase it a little more... within a year most people would have gotten a GPU at a reasonable price that way. 

 

Yet we didnt. 

 

Now the altcoin boogeyman doesn't exist since people dont use GPUs that much for mining because its not that profitable  (or rather their usage by GPU marketing as a scapegoat is not applicable anymore because frankly I am not so sure if miners indeed purchased "all of the GPUs" surely they increased the sales but I think not at a dramatic extent but rather this was all a facade for people in the supply chain -maybe including AMD and NVIDIA but if not retailers and importers for sure- can profiteer)  yet we still face the same problem from both companies

 

And I think "something is happening here" and that we should "stop children right now what's that sound  everybody look what's going down" 

 

I mean again we have same issues in supply from both designers AMD and Nvidia on CHRISTMAS (I mean everybody knows that demand on Christmas is going to be crazy high havent they watched Jingle All the Way ?  On top of that everybody with 2 brain cells can assume that people would want to upgrade after 2 years especially AMD people since the new generation is so much better ) yet their supply was ridiculous like 3 digit numbers or less FOR ENTIRE COUNTRIES

 

Those people are not stupid to do that accidentally... they make sales projections with sophisticated algorithms and data charts (and they already went through the "altcoin fiasco" ) I mean they had more than enough info to know better and increase their supply (if the demand needed the supply to be increased in the first place because I do not believe the demand is that much more compared to past years) 

 

And people that love the brands and want to defend them always can find an excuses hiding behind "complication"(of the production process)  it is "complicated" hence many minushas could be the reason ... well it was as complicated as decades now... AMD and Nvidia do not supply GPUs to ~7 billion people (the population of earth) for the first time... they do that for decades now!! 

 

They would say "AMD is fabless and had to share production with their CPUs and console chips for their partners" which again is just an excuse imho its not the first time AMD has new CPU lineups AND console chips to make (e.g PS4 XBOX one) and they knew the numbers long before so they could arrange things its not that they got pikachu face after learning about the number of consoles that need to be sold and the number of CPUs they projected to sell... 

 

but lets that pass? What's Nvidias excuse then?  

 

Something is happening here children and I think that sound is the sound of the retailers screwing us hard with 2 year old GPUs selling at ridiculous prices (e.g 2080 at more than 800$ and RX 5700 xt @ $500 ) while the new stuff IF you can find it is at double or triple the MSRP!!

 

I think they do that deliberately because they noticed how much money they made during the "altcoincrisis" (or better the successful altcoin experiment because I believed they just wanted to see how far they could get by telling us this "believable" BS )  and want to repeat that again. 

 

We are getting screwed from all the sides because exactly since retail prices are more than ridiculous the used prices skyrocketed as well I saw people on ebay buying DEAD with NO WARRANTY RX 5700 Xts @ $300 ~!!! (and similar ridiculous deals for nvidia ofcourse) 

 

We should retaliate guys ! this is the definition of BS

[Bitter]

Money is just ink and paper, it's so easy to make why aren't you rich?

 

HAVE YOU NEVER SEEN SEMICONDUCTOR FAB???

[Radium_Angel]

5 minutes ago, papajo said:

basically as abundant as sand

By this logic it would be no more difficult to build a 747 Jumbo, than it would be to make a paper airplane.

 

[papajo]

2 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

By this logic it would be no more difficult to build a 747 Jumbo, than it would be to make a paper airplane.

 

And it is

[Letgomyleghoe.]

I understand that you wan't to upgrade your pc, I too have been waiting for over half a year for an upgrade, but as Tech Jesus once said 

"A new gpu isn't bread and water" Or at least steve said something like that

And this post feels like your eating gpus for breakfast lunch AND dinner.

[Middcore]

11 minutes ago, papajo said:

We should retaliate guys ! this is the definition of BS

 

I'm just breathless with anticipation to hear what you have in mind.

 

 

[cm992]

If they cared about scalpers which they probably dont, a solution would be for AMD and Nvidia to update their websites so that you prepay and go on a waiting list and there is a system in place that prevents people from placing an order on the wait list if the shipping address or credit card they are trying to use already show up once in the list. Then working with partners like Asus/Evga/Gigabyte to do the same on their respective websites as well as places like microcenter and newegg. Then the website could also display to each customer their place in line and estimated shipping date.

[dizmo]

Not wanting to produce more than there is demand for isn't unprecedented. They made tons of GPUs in the past, they got stuck with them because the mining boom dropped off. That's simply bad business, especially on a product with incredibly thin margins. Not only do they have to sell them, they have a very short window in which to sell them, as other cards will be coming down the pipeline.

 

Funny, you claim they have very complicated algorithms that tell them what to make...and yet, here we are. You know what they couldn't predict? A pandemic. It's like you can't comprehend what's actually going on in the world.

 

GPU producers don't make every component. They depend on other factories as well. As such, there is multitudes of ways cards can be slow to produce, especially as every industry saw shutdowns and slows in transportation of goods. Take a cell phone as an example. There's parts from 43 different companies in a phone. That's 43 potential bottlenecks.

 

I don't see how you'd retaliate over something like this. What exactly do you want to do? Who are you going to cry to?
No one. Because no one cares.

 

Just wait a year or so for it to pass like everyone else.

 

Just now, papajo said:

And it is

Ah. So you really just have no idea how production or manufacturing work. Got it.

[dizmo]

4 minutes ago, cm992 said:

If they cared about scalpers which they probably dont, a solution would be for AMD and Nvidia to update their websites so that you prepay and go on a waiting list and there is a system in place that prevents people from placing an order on the wait list if the shipping address or credit card they are trying to use already show up once in the list. Then working with partners like Asus/Evga/Gigabyte to do the same on their respective websites as well as places like microcenter and newegg. Then the website could also display to each customer their place in line and estimated shipping date.

And the people who legitimately need multiple GPUS? What do they do?

 

Limiting luxury goods makes absolutely no sense.

[papajo]

6 minutes ago, cm992 said:

If they cared about scalpers which they probably dont, a solution would be for AMD and Nvidia

Yes they could do that... but they could do something even simpler... increase their already miniscule supply. 

 

Scalpers can't exist if supply is amble they are like mushrooms feeding on moisture, decrease the moisture the mushrooms are going to decrease and disappear as well. 

 

Scalpers are the new scapegoat m8 don't drink the kool aid!

 

AMD and Nvidia sell GPUs since the 90's you believe that people first time realized they could exercise scalping first time in 2020 30 years after ??? 

 

Not everybody was an angel all those years before and be reassured that if there was a window for scalping all those years back there would be people that would have exploited it! 

 

So somebody deliberately allows that window open by manipulating the production imho! 

[Radium_Angel]

9 minutes ago, cm992 said:

wait list if the shipping address or credit card they are trying to use already show up once in the list

So roommates, and guys wanting SLI are screwed...

[Radium_Angel]

5 minutes ago, papajo said:

increase their already miniscule supply. 

Do you even know why the supply chain is problematic right now?

I'll give you a hint, supply chain issues.

https://www.pcinvasion.com/nvidia-rtx-30-series-supply/

 

nVidia doesn't make every component on their GPUs, they get a lot of parts from other vendors, like the GDDR5/6, and if the vendor can't supply it because they are having trouble, then nVidia can't make the GPU.

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12380/amd-to-ramp-up-gpu-production-ram-a-limiting-factor

 

 

[The_russian]

23 hours ago, papajo said:

So somebody deliberately allows that window open by manipulating the production imho!

If that were true, how would AMD or Nvidia benefit from artificially lowering supply? It's not like they are getting higher profits because of the higher prices that scalpers charge. You think they are intentionally not making as much money as they could? What would be the benefit for them?

 

23 hours ago, papajo said:

Yes they could do that... but they could do something even simpler... increase their already miniscule supply. 

Right, because that is as simple as changing the fab output value on a program from 50% to 100%...

[WhitetailAni]

34 minutes ago, papajo said:

<rant on GPU shortages>

Out of curiosity, what card do you currently have?

[whm1974]

My Humble Opinion on this is that One should just wait this out before buying a New GPU. I refusing to pay outrageous prices for new dGPUs. That only reason such high amounts exist in the first place is due to PC Gamers with way more money then commonsense.... 

[Prodigy_Smit]

5 hours ago, papajo said:

Yes they could do that... but they could do something even simpler... increase their already miniscule supply. 

 

Are you going to fund it?

There is also something called corona and worker safety,

5 hours ago, The_russian said:

Right, because that is as simple as changing the fab output value on a program from 50% to 100%

The just need to activate the second core. /s

[whm1974]

I can see Scalpers overcharging for already expensive computer hardware that most Gamers wouldn't buy anyway. But come on for the older mid-range stuff?

[artuc]

15 hours ago, papajo said:

but its not that there isnt enough silicon (basically as abundant as sand on earth...  )

 

Gonna stop you right there.

 

By sand do you mean the valuable scarce resource that people are killed over?

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191108-why-the-world-is-running-out-of-sand

 

That's not even my only issue with your post but I am firmly committed to a solid derailment into a robust discourse on sand.

 

It's my passion.

 

 

[papajo]

18 hours ago, artuc said:

Gonna stop you right there.

 

That's your first mistake. Ignoring the main topic and focusing on a side detail instead suggest that you just want to be controversial and also not paying attention to the main issue at hand which introduces derailing, but I am going to entertain your point just for one post (this one) just to show that even trying to do what you just did bares no fruits.

 

18 hours ago, artuc said:

By sand do you mean the valuable scarce resource that people are killed over?

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191108-why-the-world-is-running-out-of-sand

 

That's not even my only issue with your post but I am firmly committed to a solid derailment into a robust discourse on sand.

 

It's my passion.

No by sand I mean silicon which is in abundance. 

 

Example reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon

 

And I quote(end of first paragraph on the wikipedia article): 

Quote

More than 90% of the Earth's crust is composed of silicate minerals, making silicon the second most abundant element in the Earth's crust (about 28% by mass), after oxygen

As for your post/link it is talking about a special kind of sand used in concrete production and it still kinda hoaxy as a subject.

 

<redacted by staff>

 

On 1/9/2021 at 10:39 PM, ragnarok0273 said:

Out of curiosity, what card do you currently have?

I have a few systems with different GPUs mostly AMD but I made that shift a few years back because I hated Nvidias price gauging (my last "main" nvidia card was a GTX 285), before that I would prefer Nvidia mostly. But now AMD is showing signs of going to the dark side as well so I am lost  

 

  

On 1/9/2021 at 10:16 PM, Middcore said:

 

I'm just breathless with anticipation to hear what you have in mind.

 

 

You just spent $1000 for a RX 6800 xt a GPU more expensive than the already overpriced  RTX 3080 it may barely beat it some games and loses against it in quite a few games on the other hand + the RTX one has features the AMD one hasnt to add injury to insult the 3080  is cheaper and @ a bigger availability so your opinion here doesn't matter lol 

 

Btw this (discussing how to make things right/retaliate) should be the subject of discussion here <redacted by staff>

 

 

  

On 1/10/2021 at 8:32 AM, whm1974 said:

I can see Scalpers overcharging for already expensive computer hardware that most Gamers wouldn't buy anyway. But come on for the older mid-range stuff?

Exactly my friend that is an other reason (besides the one I already mentioned in the 1st tab) which makes scalpers just an other scapegoat! I am happy that there are people that think here. 

 

 

We are at a point where channels like e.g Gamers nexus trying to suggest used GPUs as an upgrate! because new ones (even if you find one available !!) do not make fanancial sense at their current price to performance

 

 Or like Hardware unboxed who really dont know what to suggest to their viewers because of the terrible pricegauging and availability! (for both new and older cards!) 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by wkdpaul
cleanup

[Middcore]

On 1/10/2021 at 6:26 PM, papajo said:

You just spent $1000 for a RX 6800 xt a GPU more expensive than the already overpriced  RTX 3080 it may barely beat it some games and loses against it in quite a few games on the other hand + the RTX one has features the AMD one hasnt to add injury to insult the 3080  is cheaper and @ a bigger availability so your opinion here doesn't matter lol

 

First, I didn't spent $1000 on it. 

 

Second, I don't know how the 3080 comparison is relevant here. 

 

Thirdly, I didn't express any opinion. I said I wanted to know what kind of "retaliation" you had in mind. I'm still waiting. 

[papajo]

On 1/10/2021 at 8:38 PM, Middcore said:

 

First, I didn't spent $1000 on it. 

 

Second, I don't know how the 3080 comparison is relevant here. 

 

Thirdly, I didn't express any opinion. I said I wanted to know what kind of "retaliation" you had in mind. I'm still waiting.

First, You supposed to have a limited edition red devil (200 pcs made) and got it at MSRP? In this market where even reference units go by around $1000 IF you find one?  yea sure.. you convinced me.

 

Unless you are Lisa Su's nephew or something like that you either spent at least $1000 for that GPU or you probably dont have it and just claim you have. 

 

Second yes technically asking that question you did is not an opinion, but the way you phrased yourself + the ironic gif you added under your question is a statement of opinion and in fact an insulting at that since it insinuates that you think that this is BS. 

 

 

It is like asking if vaccines are dangerous by adding this 

 

 

Surely you just ask but you insinuate that your opinion is that this is BS (and yes I do NOT believe that vaccines are dangerous I am NOT an antivaccer I just showcase that example as an analogy to your post) 

 

[Middcore]

13 minutes ago, papajo said:

First, You supposed to have a limited edition red devil (200 pcs made) and got it at MSRP? In this market where even reference units go by around $1000 IF you find one?  yea sure.. you convinced me.

 

Unless you are Lisa Su's nephew or something like that you either spent at least $1000 for that GPU or you probably dont have it and just claim you have. 

 

Second yes technically asking that question you did is not an opinion, but the way you phrased yourself + the ironic gif you added under your question is a statement of opinion and in fact an insulting at that since it insinuates that you think that this is BS. 

 

 

It is like asking if vaccines are dangerous by adding this 

 

 

Surely you just ask but you insinuate that your opinion is that this is BS (and yes I do NOT believe that vaccines are dangerous I am NOT an antivaccer I just showcase that example as an analogy to your post) 

 

1000 were made, not 200. I could post a pic of the card in my PC and a pic of the box and a screenshot of my Newegg order confirmation, but I don't see how any of this is relevant unless it's some sort of galaxy-brain ploy on your part where you think I'll accidentally reveal my credit card info and then you can steal it to be able to afford a new card for yourself.

 

So I'm gonna ask a third time: what's your idea for retaliation? Tell us how you're going to bring AMD and Nvidia to their knees for their dastardly deeds against gamers. People are waiting to flock to your banner, my man, they just want to hear what the plan is. Don't miss this chance to be a gamer messiah!

 

 

[WhitetailAni]

12 minutes ago, papajo said:

It is like asking if vaccines are dangerous by adding this 

Spoiler

Surely you just ask but you insinuate that your opinion is that this is BS (and yes I do NOT believe that vaccines are dangerous I am NOT an antivaccer I just showcase that example as an analogy to your post) 

I think you just bit yourself in the butt by pointing out the flaw in your argument.

You talk about some things that could fix it with the system that AMD and Nvidia use to make their cards and GPUs, without much apparent knowledge about said system.
And your example points this out.

[papajo]

20 minutes ago, Middcore said:

1000 were made, not 200. I could post a pic of the card in my PC and a pic of the box and a screenshot of my Newegg order confirmation, but I don't see how any of this is relevant unless it's some sort of galaxy-brain ploy on your part where you think I'll accidentally reveal my credit card info and then you can steal it to be able to afford a new card for yourself.

 

Well google confirms that they are indeed 1000 so my bad, I remember seeing a XXX/200 sign stamped on it on a video but maybe that was for the 6900xt wariant. 

 

Anyway the case still stands because what you claim is extraordinary unlikely because even the MSRP of that unit is about $849 and in this market where you cant find no 6000 series at MSRP claiming that you got one at that price which is a "special edition" (adds a premium even if prices were not inflated) and at that scarcity (even 1000 PCs are not much if you consider you are talking about the global supply in other words it is not 1000 PCS per country but 1000 PCS no matter where you order from ) 

 

If you indeed got one at MSRP then you are just one very lucky fellow almost as lucky as a jackpot winner in other words. 

 

And you could upload a photo of the receipt and just blur the your name address or any CC info that might appear (although I think they dont do that anyway if there is credit card info on the bill it will be like the last 4 digits only) 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Middcore said:

So I'm gonna ask a third time: what's your idea for retaliation? Tell us how you're going to bring AMD and Nvidia to their knees for their dastardly deeds against gamers. People are waiting to flock to your banner, my man, they just want to hear what the plan is.

 

See you keep on going with that.. "How I will bring them to their knees" ........Isnt this suggesting something? 

 

There are ways to retaliate especially if we have the media on "our" (aka the consumer) side to pressure AMD and Nvidia to publically talk about their total production numbers thus far comparing them with past years (because something tells me they will be lower)and to ask them to explain why that is so. 

 

We could go to our government consumer rights organization asking why even older midrange models in retail stores have such high prices, we could petition with online campaigns with change.org or ipetition.com etc 

 

And in general this would be a nice thing to discuss here, I didnt claim I want to be the leader of something here or to have the keys for our salvation I merely stated the obvious problem in hopes of an discussion about that and instead 80 to 90% of the posts (to bored to count their exact number) are some troll BS against me as a person and only a few post are actually on topic. 

[papajo]

24 minutes ago, ragnarok0273 said:

I think you just bit yourself in the butt by pointing out the flaw in your argument.

You talk about some things that could fix it with the system that AMD and Nvidia use to make their cards and GPUs, without much apparent knowledge about said system.
And your example points this out.

This example (you just quoted) was about a MIddcore's post and had nothing to do with AMD or nvidia... you just try to attack me on a personal level without even giving the slightest effort of trying to understand what you read... dont worry my knowledge about GPUs and their market quite substantial and if it is not apparent to you (especially reading my older topics about it) then apparently your horizon restricts you from being able to judge such a thing.