Apple made a BIG mistake

[Emily Young]

  

Apple’s new M1-equipped MacBooks have been out for a while now, but there are still many lingering questions.. First among them: Can they really live up to Apple’s promises in real-world use?

 

 

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[wall03]

Wait. This wasn't early. I can't get the first comment or do the SponsorBlock thing to increase my rankings

edit: realized it's not always early

[just_dave]

These machines look so good but especially here in Europe the memory and storage upgrade pricing is so high :((

[Commodus]

43 minutes ago, just_dave said:

These machines look so good but especially here in Europe the memory and storage upgrade pricing is so high :((

The good news: there isn't as much of a rush to upgrade the RAM as there is with x86 machines (Mac or Windows). Even a system with 8GB can apparently handle quite a lot without struggling, if partly due to the extra-fast SSD. It's still worth considering 16GB if you're going to run a lot of memory-intensive tasks or intend to use your system for several years, but even then...

[LAwLz]

I watched the video because I expected Linus to try and somehow downplay the laptops so that he didn't have to admit how wrong he was about them. I was pleasantly surprised. I really don't get the title or thumbnail though. What exactly was Apple's "big mistake"?

[Commodus]

31 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I watched the video because I expected Linus to try and somehow downplay the laptops so that he didn't have to admit how wrong he was about them. I was pleasantly surprised. I really don't get the title or thumbnail though. What exactly was Apple's "big mistake"?

The "mistake" was explained early on — that Apple did so well that it'll be difficult to improve on these designs. A problem for Apple, but not for customers.

 

I, for one, suspect Apple won't have a hard time with the follow-up. These were clearly placeholders using the existing chassis so Apple could quickly release new systems without putting added strain on engineers. Now that the company is more comfortable, it can release systems designed around ARM and show what it can really do.

 

Remember how the first Intel-based Macs were mostly faster PowerPC-era systems, while the subsequent models were much slicker and more capable? I'm expecting that for the second wave of Apple Silicon Macs. Imagine, say, a 14-inch MacBook Pro that lasts even longer on battery despite being thinner and lighter.

[Nathat23]

What about the 4700U envy x360?

[CyberneticTitan]

Heads up, think someone forgot to specify the version of PugetBench used in the benchmarks,

[GDRRiley]

Ryzen U parts weren't well show off here. you put the 4500U a 6/6 up instead of a 4800U 8/16

we also haven't seen next gen zen3 APUs out yet

[Roswell]

What an incredibly stupid title.

 

How does "MacBook Pro 13/Air Review" turn into "Apple made a BIG mistake"???

 

It's like your clickbait gets more obnoxious by the week. Trying to look through video titles on the channel is a pointless endeavor, I just end skipping over most things because I have no earthly idea what the video is about and I'm not about to sit through ads to find out.

[poptonite]

CORRECTION @ 3:54 - the 4500u is not 6 core/12 thread. It is 6 core/6 thread. Additionally, the onboard Vega cores get a major boost with dual-channel memory and judging by the results the Envy doesn't appear to use it.

[RejZoR]

28 minutes ago, poptonite said:

CORRECTION @ 3:54 - the 4500u is not 6 core/12 thread. It is 6 core/6 thread. Additionally, the onboard Vega cores get a major boost with dual-channel memory and judging by the results the Envy doesn't appear to use it.

It's so weird to still see so many companies use single channel memory configurations. Especially ones that have soldered chips. There isn't any upgradability, don't be lazy and cheap, solder two chips in parallel ffs. I bought HP's laptop with Ryzen 2500U like a year or two ago and that damn thing came with dual channel memory configuration. I was actually surprised it has, considering it's a generic HP laptop, doesn't even come from any series with actual own name.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

The "mistake" was explained early on — that Apple did so well that it'll be difficult to improve on these designs. A problem for Apple, but not for customers.

Wow, that's a really shitty title in that case. I sure hope Linus thinks the extra cash he makes is worth selling his integrity and tricking his viewers.

 

 

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

Ryzen U parts weren't well show off here. you put the 4500U a 6/6 up instead of a 4800U 8/16

I think between the 4500U they tested, and the 4800H they tested, we can pretty easily tell where a 4800U would land. 

Remove ~40% of the multi-core performance score on the 4800H and cut power consumption by ~60% and you got the 4800U results.

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

we also haven't seen next gen zen3 APUs out yet

You can't really blame them for not testing parts that don't exist yet. By that logic, when Zen3 APU comes out you could complain that they aren't testing them against the M2 chips (or whatever they will be called).

I think comparing what is available in different price brackets, at this point in time, makes the most sense.

 

 

 

 

  

57 minutes ago, poptonite said:

Additionally, the onboard Vega cores get a major boost with dual-channel memory and judging by the results the Envy doesn't appear to use it.

25 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

It's so weird to still see so many companies use single channel memory configurations. Especially ones that have soldered chips.

The HP Envy x360 does use dual channel memory.

HP ENVY x360 Convertible Laptop - 15z-ds100 (8WL85AV_1)

Quote

8 GB DDR4-3200 SDRAM (2 X 4 GB)

 

 

[GDRRiley]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I think between the 4500U they tested, and the 4800H they tested, we can pretty easily tell where a 4800U would land. 

Remove ~40% of the multi-core performance score on the 4800H and cut power consumption by ~60% and you got the 4800U results.

You can't really blame them for not testing parts that don't exist yet. By that logic, when Zen3 APU comes out you could complain that they aren't testing them against the M2 chips (or whatever they will be called).

I think comparing what is available in different price brackets, at this point in time, makes the most sense.

not really. last I checked the 4800H unit they tested wasn't the best on thermals. I'd expect a G14 to do beter for a 4800H

I'm just saying so much of this hype around it is overblow. Zen3 still on 7nm will match it in single. beat it in multi even vs say a 8-10 big core+4 little. and thats still with AMD being a node behind.

[skywake]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Wow, that's a really shitty title in that case. I sure hope Linus thinks the extra cash he makes is worth selling his integrity and tricking his viewers.

I wasn't a fan of the title, then I read some of the comments under the twitter post pushing the video. The number of people who live under the illusion that Linus is somehow "anti-apple" and are having a go at him for his "biased reviews". I mean it's always been clear that these people are full of it as a long time watcher of LTT (he's actually pretty Pro Apple if anything) but this makes that abundantly clear.

 

So for me, as misleading as the title is and as much as I don't like that it's a thing, it makes for a damn good social experiment in how little people actually engage with content. And for me that was more enlightening than the video itself could ever be.

 

And for what it's worth, as someone who doesn't have anything Apple outside of iPads.... after watching the video I'm tempted to get a Macbook....

[IAmAndre]

3 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

Ryzen U parts weren't well show off here. you put the 4500U a 6/6 up instead of a 4800U 8/16

we also haven't seen next gen zen3 APUs out yet

he also added the Omen (with a 4800H iirc).

[captain_to_fire]

Since ARM CPUs are scalable and the M1 performs well, I wonder if Apple will bring back Xserve from the graveyard of cancelled Apple products. 

[hishnash]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

It's so weird to still see so many companies use single channel memory configurations

The M1 has an 8 Channels of LPDDR memory (yes that is 8 channels but only 2 dies of memory somehow..) 

 

 

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

I, for one, suspect Apple won't have a hard time with the follow-up.

In multi-threaded, and GPU perf yes they will ship some real monster systems as they update the higher end 13" (to 14") and the 16". 

 

In single threaded perf I do not expect they will want to push the cpus cores out of the per/W efficient frequency bracket. Unless apple have a wider cpu core in the works (like a `Plasma-Storm`) core with a 12 or 16 wide decoder and a even more massive out of oder instruction cache and many more logical blocks I expect the single core speed of the M1 will not be massively different from that on the other macs in this generation. 

What I do expect is to see a real change in the GPU compute space as apple pushing the UnifiedMemory story to higher end laptops we will have GPUs in laptops with as much as 124GB memory. Even with the MBA a GPU in a thin-and-light that has an option of 16GB directly attached (fast) memory may well be a game changer in some professional tasks there the limiting factor is memory capacity not just number crunching. 

[abazigal]

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

The "mistake" was explained early on — that Apple did so well that it'll be difficult to improve on these designs. A problem for Apple, but not for customers.

 

I, for one, suspect Apple won't have a hard time with the follow-up. These were clearly placeholders using the existing chassis so Apple could quickly release new systems without putting added strain on engineers. Now that the company is more comfortable, it can release systems designed around ARM and show what it can really do.

 

Remember how the first Intel-based Macs were mostly faster PowerPC-era systems, while the subsequent models were much slicker and more capable? I'm expecting that for the second wave of Apple Silicon Macs. Imagine, say, a 14-inch MacBook Pro that lasts even longer on battery despite being thinner and lighter.

I am reminded of how the current iPad Pro is still using the A12x processor from 2 years ago, and nothing still comes close to beating it. 

 

That could be Apple’s end game as well. If Intel continues its current slump, Apple could go 2, maybe even 3 years between updating their M1 Macs (especially for lower-volume devices like the imac or Mac Pro), and it would still be faster than anything in the market. 

[WhitetailAni]

Next Apple device:
iMac Pro with an M1.1.

Also, Linus, what the heck is this title?
It's clickbait.

Stop.

[GDRRiley]

3 hours ago, IAmAndre said:

he also added the Omen (with a 4800H iirc).

last I looked the Omen wasn't exactly the best performing 4800H machine and a bit slower than the 4900H/HS machine like the G14

[Granular]

Linus made a BIG mistake

[pontifexrus]

10:45 - I don't believe in your battery comparison results, I have not seen any test on the Internet with such a difference between Air and Pro, everywhere the difference was about 2 hours. It is also physically impossible, because the Pro has battery by 20% bigger, and you show that it holds a charge 50% longer. It seems to me that your Air test sample has a defect or a software bug, or you did not notice the process that wastes the charge.

[hishnash]

1 hour ago, pontifexrus said:

 It seems to me that your Air test sample has a defect or a software bug, or you did not notice the process that wastes the charge.

They were playing back videos in youtube so it is very possible that there is a lot of extra variance there just base on the random side of the the youtube AB test that they might have been running that day. This is why most laptop vendors prefer to quote playback times based on native application video playback were you can control and ensure all devices use the same software version.

 

 

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

not really. last I checked the 4800H unit they tested wasn't the best on thermals. I'd expect a G14 to do beter for a 4800H

Dude, they were comparing a fanless M1 against a massive gaming laptop and you still don't think they gave AMD a big enough advantage? Come on. 

 

 

9 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

I'm just saying so much of this hype around it is overblow. Zen3 still on 7nm will match it in single. beat it in multi even vs say a 8-10 big core+4 little. and thats still with AMD being a node behind.

The Zen3 laptop chips will not match the M1 in single core performance. Remember, the desktop parts just barely edges it out in single core performance, and that's at 4.9GHz.

It will beat it in multi core score though, but that's because it will be an 8 core AMD processor vs a quad core Apple processor. 

If you think an 8 core low power Zen3 chips will perform better than an 8 or even a 10 core M1X (or whatever it will be called) then you're delusional.