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M1 MacBook Air with thermal Pads almost on par with M1 Pro.

jesus123
By jesus123
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Summary

Some Guys on Macrumors installed Thermal Pads inside the M1 MacBook Air and get almost no throttling anymore as a result, and therefore get similar performance then the (300$ Pricier) M1 MacBook Pro.

 

 

Quotes

Quote

Cinebench R23 10 minute multi core tests

Before thermal pad mod:
6412 with a warm backshell case near where backshell meets hinge

After thermal pad mod:
7713 with a hot backshell case (i can touch it and leave my hand on it but is like a hot cup of tea)

 

My thoughts

Thats Pretty Awesome in my Opinion, The fact the Air doesn't have the Touch Bar, is Completely Quiet, And could be able to match the Performance could make it the way better choice for many. Sure the Pro gets better Battery and 100Nits more but that's not a lot of downside Imo considering it cost 300$ less.

 

Sources

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-air-with-thermal-pad-mod.2272939/

DD182CB5-7377-458D-AABB-36551B3BA1B4.jpeg

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1 minute ago, TheReal1980 said:

I will wait for the 16" first before I pull the trigger.

Fair Enough. Time passing will improve the Experience alone and the 16" should be the real deal for Professionals in need for a lot of power on the Go. (For those using Mac Software at least)

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It's interesting but thermalpads applied to laptops like that block the airflow for other potentially vital components 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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30 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

It's interesting but thermalpads applied to laptops like that block the airflow for other potentially vital components 

Is that equally relevant in a fanless laptop? There isn’t much airflow happening anyway or am I missing something?

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Just so we're all clear; this would have been a design choice by Apple to ensure that the laptop was comfortable to use for extended durations away from the desk where it may be sitting on your lap, or otherwise. Not Apple deliberately gimping the laptop to sell more pro devices.

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does apple not know that heat exists on electronics?

like come on what happens to the energy once it's used!?!?

it doesn't disappear that violates the conservation of energy!!!

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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

It's interesting but thermalpads applied to laptops like that block the airflow for other potentially vital components 

Looking at the photo of the backplate it looks like there’s no airflow to start with.  There’s sort of an argument for doing the entire thing except the connectors in thermal pad. Would make for a warm case bottom through.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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1 hour ago, Salv8 (sam) said:

does apple not know that heat exists on electronics?

like come on what happens to the energy once it's used!?!?

it doesn't disappear that violates the conservation of energy!!!

I mean we really shouldn't be surprised by this - ignoring the cooling of their devices has been an Apple staple for most of their history.

 

After all Steve Jobs did insist that the original 1984 Apple Macintosh be released with no cooling fan, which caused a lot of component failures due to heat. This was expecially an issue for the Macintosh Plus (1986), where the heat produced by the power supply would cause solder joints to fracture. It was only with the Macintosh SE (1987) that Apple finally relented and included a fan inside the unit, likely because they simultaneously introduced the option for a built-in hard drive, which would have added even more heat to the system.

 

Because of this, accessories such as the Kensington System Saver - an external fan module to force air through the ventilation holes - weren't uncommon for early Macs, especially ones with more than 1MB of memory.

CPU: i7 4790k, RAM: 16GB DDR3, GPU: GTX 1060 6GB

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6 hours ago, jesus123 said:

Some Guys on Macrumors installed Thermal Pads inside the M1 MacBook Air and get almost no throttling anymore

Ah yes thermal throttling, apple can't even be bothered to put a teeny heatsink on the chips anymore, I'm guess this is their way of differentiating the pro from the air performance wise.

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4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

It's interesting but thermalpads applied to laptops like that block the airflow for other potentially vital components 

That may have been true with the last gen Macbook Air, but apple gave up on cooling completely with this one. I guess this is their way of differentiating between the pro and air in performance since they haven't power limited the chip just yet. I guess the naming makes even more sense now since air is quite literally what's left in between the heatsink and the rest of the laptop. The red circle is supposed to represent the whereabouts of where the APU is under, above the apu is a heatsink, that isn't that efficient at being a heatsink. I can't wait for this to become a popular mod for the macbook air to improve performance.

image.png.10da28e33c901833b5520cc43e801891.png

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2 hours ago, Salv8 (sam) said:

does apple not know that heat exists on electronics?

like come on what happens to the energy once it's used!?!?

it doesn't disappear that violates the conservation of energy!!!

Apple knows better than almost any other company, or should.  The AppleIII failed in the marketplace because of heat issues.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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5 hours ago, Salv8 (sam) said:

does apple not know that heat exists on electronics?

like come on what happens to the energy once it's used!?!?

it doesn't disappear that violates the conservation of energy!!!

Ideally we want all energy to be converted to useful energy, that is work. Heat is wasted energy. Hence if there was ever a possibility of 100 percent efficiency, the chip would only ever be at ambient temperature. The fact that M1 chips are extremely performing and output very little heat to basically operate without any cooling speaks volumes about Apple's chip engineering team

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1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Ideally we want all energy to be converted to useful energy, that is work. Heat is wasted energy. Hence if there was ever a possibility of 100 percent efficiency, the chip would only ever be at ambient temperature. The fact that M1 chips are extremely performing and output very little heat to basically operate without any cooling speaks volumes about Apple's chip engineering team

In terms of energy efficiency created in to work (using the scientific/physics application) it isn't any different to any other CPU. That's a transistor and node thing and regardless the difference been nodes is extremely minute, input power is in all practical regards the same as output power (heat).

 

The M1 doesn't need much cooling as the input power thus the output power is so low. Have a look at a 6W LED house light, these have very little heatsinks on them as they also use very little input power (and like CPUs very little energy is actually converted in to light).

 

Spoiler

LDRHV7L27WG10AP2.jpg?20200711030602

 

Anyway, CPU architecture doesn't change the electrical properties of silicon transistors and converted energy. What is so great about the M1 is that it is so low power that it requires very little cooling yet is capable of very high performance, which is a CPU architecture effect.

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Fanless die-hards could use a fully loaded (16GB/2TB) Macbook Air as a desktop instead of a MacMini, maybe docked inside a Brydge Dock, and benefit from this mod (since they would never have the Air on their laps anyway). 

 

image.thumb.jpeg.9d0293cbf28cdbbbb2db5e41f015535c.jpeg

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Question here is, why doesn't a 1000+ € laptop have 5€ worth of pads there from the factory?

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Supposedly it has this from a certain manufacturing batch on

 

405A3DA6-CE27-452D-ACD4-3F8660B43120.thumb.jpeg.b185d323ced43740ac2bfa69f2d70452.jpeg

 

This strikes a certain balance of heat flowing, throttling and pleasant temps on the laps.

 

The mod on the other hand puts every square inch of the heatsink in contact with the case and strikes another balance (with less throttling and less nice temps on the laps).

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1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Question here is, why doesn't a 1000+ € laptop have 5€ worth of pads there from the factory?

Because not every person want the back of their laptop used as a heatsink and getting hot. Honestly it's not like there is any real performance loss, the great thing is you can do these higher end tasks on the Air but is that really what the device is for? For the length of time it takes to start reducing performance and by the amount it does so I highly doubt anyone will notice let alone actually care outside the "benchmarkers".

 

Quote

(i can touch it and leave my hand on it but is like a hot cup of tea)

Not exactly pleasant, do you want unnecessarily sweaty legs or hands/arms due to this?

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13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Because not every person want the back of their laptop used as a heatsink and getting hot. Honestly it's not like there is any real performance loss, the great thing is you can do these higher end tasks on the Air but is that really what the device is for? For the length of time it takes to start reducing performance and by the amount it does so I highly doubt anyone will notice let alone actually care outside the "benchmarkers".

 

Not exactly pleasant, do you want unnecessarily sweaty legs or hands/arms due to this?

I mostly agree. Although I do think this will benefit you if you do play GTA V through Parallels running Windows on ARM as example. But virtualizing Windows on ARM and running game was indeed the only way I noticed the MacBook getting hot beside charging it.

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This makes the MacBook Air all the more appealing to me. It has good enough battery life, good enough screen, great keyboard, it doesn't have the Touch Bar, and is cheaper.

 

Let's be real, if you're using a 13" MacBook Air for power intensive tasks on your lap for an extended period of time, it's probably not the right device for you. Using it on your lap is horrific in terms of ergonomic, I pretty much always use my laptop, and even Windows tablet on a table. Basically the only time I don't is if I'm sitting on the sofa and need to send a few emails.

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3 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

Supposedly it has this from a certain manufacturing batch on

The cooling solutions from the 2 different APU configs also differ slightly, I haven't gotten enough hands on time to say what the specifics are, but perhaps that's why that's only on some.

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6 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Question here is, why doesn't a 1000+ € laptop have 5€ worth of pads there from the factory?

Because it would make the laptop really uncomfortable to use on the lap all to fix a non-issue for 99.99% of all users.

 

The laptop doesn’t “thermal throttle.” It dials back the clock speed after about 15-20 minutes of heavy usage like every other laptop sold on the market. Thermal throttling would be the laptop reducing the clock speed below its base clock. 

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18 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

Because it would make the laptop really uncomfortable to use on the lap all to fix a non-issue for 99.99% of all users.

 

The laptop doesn’t “thermal throttle.” It dials back the clock speed after about 15-20 minutes of heavy usage like every other laptop sold on the market. Thermal throttling would be the laptop reducing the clock speed below its base clock. 

Yeah sure. But that’s what the pro doesn’t do. 
i agree tho that for Apple, and for the audience they try to reach with this, doing it the way they did was right. But being able to do this kind of stuff still has its positive aspects for some people.

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