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Apple Planning to Ditch Qualcomm Next

Ferowin

Summary

Apple has started designing it’s own 5G modems. They bought Intel’s modem manufacturing, then ditched Intel processors, and now they’re looking to get rid of Qualcomm. I guess they’re tired of paying licensing fees.

 

Quotes

Quote

“This year, we kicked off the development of our first internal cellular modem which will enable another key strategic transition. Long-term strategic investments like these are a critical part of enabling our products and making sure we have a rich pipeline of innovative technologies for our future.”

- Johny Srouji, Apple’s senior vice president of hardware technologies

 

My thoughts

It looks like they’re trying to get into making all of their own chips, possibly to avoid licensing fees, and certainly to increase profits. Who knows, if this works out, they might even start selling chips to other manufacturers. Probably not, though. In retrospect, I think they’ll just use it to quash Right to Repair.

 

Sources

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/apple-starts-work-on-its-own-cellular-modem-chip-chief-says?sref=9hGJlFio

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4 minutes ago, EpiCheeseTime said:

MONOPOLY!

Apple creating a competitor to Qualcomm's 5G modems is a... monopoly?

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6 minutes ago, EpiCheeseTime said:

MONOPOLY!

It's only a monopoly if Apple were buying Qualcomm. 

 

Building and creating everything that runs on a product of yours is not a monopoly. 

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I don't think that worked out very well for the Apple of the 1980's and 1990's. Almost shut them down.

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29 minutes ago, willies leg said:

I don't think that worked out very well for the Apple of the 1980's and 1990's. Almost shut them down.

I don't think that will happen this time. They are a massive company at this point and have proved that they are more than capable of producing good preforming hardware. Also even if their version is slightly behind the competition it wouldn't matter as alot of people would still buy apple regardless and apple knows this. 

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On 12/11/2020 at 11:40 AM, Blademaster91 said:

It's a vertical monopoly, no competition if the only way to get it is buying an iphone.

Oh yeah, big bad Apple choosing to make their own components to put inside their own products, the horror!

 

The mental gymnastics some of you go through to whine about Apple is hilarious sometimes. What do you want, the government to tell Apple that they’re not allowed to manufacture certain parts of their own phone? That they HAVE to include products from other companies in their own? Lol.

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2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I don't think that will happen this time. They are a massive company at this point and have proved that they are more than capable of producing good preforming hardware. Also even if their version is slightly behind the competition it wouldn't matter as alot of people would still buy apple regardless and apple knows this. 

This is very true. Plus, buying Intel’s modem division will give them a good starting point. I think it’ll be rough at first, but they’ll get it down within one iPhone generation. They might even put the modem on the SOC die, which would save room in the device and increase efficiency.

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Nothing wrong with Apple making their own modems, nor is it a problem if they keep all their modems to themselves.

Now that CMDA is on its way out, there will be plenty of competition in the modem space. Qualcomm, Samsung, MediaTek and Huawei all make their own modems. If anyone is going to be slapped for having a monopoly on modems, it's Qualcomm. Not only do they own a ton of patents for CMDA making them basically the only one allowed to make those modems, they also regularly force everyone who wants to use their SoCs to also buy their modems (like with the Snapdragon 865). 

 

I think competition in the modem industry will be good. Even if Apple won't sell modems to anyone else, the fact that Qualcomm might improve to win Apple back as a customer might bring the industry forward.

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Qualcomm is one of the nastiest monopolies people don’t even know about. Any android or smartphone that uses a Qualcomm chip or modem has to pay royalty fees on their entire IP portfolio!! Imagine if you wanted a copy of Windows 10 and Microsoft made you pay for all of their products!!

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3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Nothing wrong with Apple making their own modems, nor is it a problem if they keep all their modems to themselves.

Now that CMDA is on its way out, there will be plenty of competition in the modem space. Qualcomm, Samsung, MediaTek and Huawei all make their own modems. If anyone is going to be slapped for having a monopoly on modems, it's Qualcomm. Not only do they own a ton of patents for CMDA making them basically the only one allowed to make those modems, they also regularly force everyone who wants to use their SoCs to also buy their modems (like with the Snapdragon 865). 

 

I think competition in the modem industry will be good. Even if Apple won't sell modems to anyone else, the fact that Qualcomm might improve to win Apple back as a customer might bring the industry forward.

Agreed. It’s actually the opposite of a Monopoly, and a good way for Apple to save money and increase their own flexibility in the design and production phases. I don’t think it will actually result in lower prices to consumers, but it may reduce the price increases. Logically speaking, it was a good move on Apple’s part.

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On 12/11/2020 at 5:33 PM, sazrocks said:

Apple creating a competitor to Qualcomm's 5G modems is a... monopoly?

People don't understand vertical integration. Or complete independence. Usually same people who screech about monopoly of Apple's App Store. On Apple's own device on their entirely own OS. It's like demanding Samsung to ship with Windows 10 on their "smart" fridges and not with Tizen or Android or whatever the F they use. It's their fridge and they can do whatever the hell they want with it. Same is with App Store and same is with modems used. It's their product lol.

 

I'm also surprised people are surprised about it. Apple basically makes everything themselves when it comes to critical components, particularly chipsets, OS and also their app market. Not having modem within the chipset is a big issue when it comes to efficiency. Of course they'll integrated the moment it's possible for them. It would be stupid not to.

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On 12/11/2020 at 10:27 AM, Ferowin said:

Summary

Apple has started designing it’s own 5G modems. They bought Intel’s modem manufacturing, then ditched Intel processors, and now they’re looking to get rid of Qualcomm. I guess they’re tired of paying licensing fees.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

It looks like they’re trying to get into making all of their own chips, possibly to avoid licensing fees, and certainly to increase profits. Who knows, if this works out, they might even start selling chips to other manufacturers. Probably not, though. In retrospect, I think they’ll just use it to quash Right to Repair.

 

Sources

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/apple-starts-work-on-its-own-cellular-modem-chip-chief-says?sref=9hGJlFio

Vertical integration can be bad or good.  It’s good until that particular section runs into problems then It can screw the whole thing. Radio shack died of vertical integration, and intel lost its market dominance because of it. If intel didn’t get stuck on 14nm would AMD even have a shot right now?

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Vertical integration can be bad or good.  It’s good until that particular section runs into problems then It can screw the whole thing. Radio shack died of vertical integration, and intel lost its market dominance because of it. If intel didn’t get stuck on 14nm would AMD even have a shot right now?

That's not quite the same. Apple makes their own chips, but then makes TSMC to fabricate them. Apple is a fabless chip maker. Just like Qualcomm. Or AMD. Or NVIDIA. Samsung on the other hand is not fabless. Neither is Intel. There were times when that was beneficial to them, but recently not so much. AMD had similar issue. They are fabless too now, but they weren't always.

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These are all very smart business moves to make everything "in house" as it were. I forget the topic, but when you own the start to finish from raw material to retail store, you can really increase profit margins.

I think that steel industry guy did it & that's how he got his monopoly or how anti-trust laws in the US were made iirc.

 

Maybe it'll bring iphone prices down, maybe it won't. Nevertheless, might as well make it yours if you can.

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2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

That's not quite the same. Apple makes their own chips, but then makes TSMC to fabricate them. Apple is a fabless chip maker. Just like Qualcomm. Or AMD. Or NVIDIA. Samsung on the other hand is not fabless. Neither is Intel. There were times when that was beneficial to them, but recently not so much. AMD had similar issue. They are fabless too now, but they weren't always.

Examples never are.  Apple is more like radio shack than it is like intel. The problem with vertical integration is if one of the sections of the process falls behind and stays behind you have to just drag it along with you.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Examples never are.  Apple is more like radio shack than it is like intel. The problem with vertical integration is if one of the sections of the process falls behind and stays behind you have to just drag it along with you.

And how is that different compared to situation where for example TSMC has massive problems doing something and you entirely depend on them? What are you going to do then? There is one difference though. If you rely on your own foundries, you're stuck with that, whether it works or not. If you're hiring someone, you have options. Global Foundries, TSMC, Samsung and China has some I believe, though I don't know how competitive they are. If one fails or doesn't have capacities for you, you can use someone else. With your own, that's it. You can hire someone else still, but then you have bunch of people in your own factory sitting on their asses doing nothing. And that's bad for business.

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26 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

And how is that different compared to situation where for example TSMC has massive problems doing something and you entirely depend on them? What are you going to do then? There is one difference though. If you rely on your own foundries, you're stuck with that, whether it works or not. If you're hiring someone, you have options. Global Foundries, TSMC, Samsung and China has some I believe, though I don't know how competitive they are. If one fails or doesn't have capacities for you, you can use someone else. With your own, that's it. You can hire someone else still, but then you have bunch of people in your own factory sitting on their asses doing nothing. And that's bad for business.

Because if TSMC falls behind one simply goes elsewhere.  Intel did not.  For 10 years. If Apple designs a cell chip and it is good that’s fine, but if they design one that is awful they may use it anyway.  Thi was the big worry with the m1 chip that did not come to pass.   There was serious worry that m1 was going to be awful. That did not happen, but that doesn’t mean it won’t. Vertical integration even works if some section has a bad year because the parts that do not can cover.  The problem is if they have a bunch of bad years in a row the entire company can fall behind covering for them.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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It's not like Apple has problems designing exceptional chips or anything...

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Apple, don't forget to do this with your new 5G chips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMtqao-JV8k

More & more companies are serializing parts together, ensuring that end users & independent repair shops will be unable to repair them.

 

The Landfill Economy depends on it.

(but of course we can buy directly from you at - I'm sure - competitive prices when all the competition is locked out)

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On 12/13/2020 at 1:20 AM, fpo said:

These are all very smart business moves to make everything "in house" as it were. I forget the topic, but when you own the start to finish from raw material to retail store, you can really increase profit margins.

I think that steel industry guy did it & that's how he got his monopoly or how anti-trust laws in the US were made iirc.

 

Maybe it'll bring iphone prices down, maybe it won't. Nevertheless, might as well make it yours if you can.

 

Isn't this also how space X keeps it's costs under control?

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54 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Isn't this also how space X keeps it's costs under control?

Space Xs problem is Musk nothing else. 

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