(maybe) Looking4 ~$100 head-worn streaming🎤 (talking2chat during/btwn piano songs), don't have cans (headband/mount ModMic?), ideas? start w/o voice?

[PianoPlayer88Key]

Hi all...

 

(TL;DR is boldface text scattered in the post.)

 

I'd like to get a head-worn microphone for my voice for live piano streams.  (No, I won't be singing, I suck badly at that; it will be for talking to chat between or during songs.)  

 

The pic below shows a view from approximately where the main stream camera would be.  I put some sheets over some piles of clutter temporarily to kind-of "clean up" the look a little (there's no way to fit a chroma key screen there - green won't work as I like to wear green shirts among other colors); also I added a little gray splotch in front of my mouth in the picture approximately where I'd anticipate a voice mike going.

 

 

In the spoiler are a couple other pics taken earlier this year, one with the same camera but without the sheets covering the clutter in the background, and the other is a screenshot from OBS with my laptop's built-in webcam in approximately the same spot.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I buy just a mike, I'm looking at spending somewhere around $80-120 or so.  (That budget would include any extra necessary parts / accessories, like mounting hardware, headband, separate transmitter/receiver or cable, etc, if necessary.) If I also buy headphones, or a headset, I'm looking at around $200-250, maybe up to $300 for the combo.

I would like fairly accurate sound, no fancy "gamery" coloring of it, for example.

Also I really need excellent ambient rejection off the sides / back - I want it to ONLY pick up my voice, even when I'm talking quietly (maybe even as quiet as ASMR although I likely won't be doing that content specifically), and not pick up the piano (I have a Zoom H2n for that, see farther down) or other people / equipment in the room.

Wireless would be strongly preferred, or at least replaceable cables (with the cables being inexpensive enough so I can replace them like 10 or 20+ times before having spent as much as the mike itself), as I'm frequently breaking cables.

(I guess it would be too much to ask for it to outlast the folding chair I'm currently using at my laptop, that's older than a set my parents got as a wedding gift in 1970. )

Spoiler

 

The newer chair (the one from the set my parents got in 1970) is closer to the camera / on the left if you're looking toward the laptop from where the chairs are.

 

 

 

 

One of the mikes I'm maybe considering is the ModMic Wireless, but I don't yet have a pair of headphones (just earbuds) to mount it to, or even ANY kind of head-worn gear with a headband.

Also I'm kind-of getting "information overload" while doing my research - just see my RAM usage and how many tabs FireFox is warning me about closing when I clicked the close button on that window.

 

 

Are there some other mikes I should maybe consider, that could be worn on my head / in front of my mouth?  I was looking at lav mikes briefly, and I kind-of don't think they'd have good enough ambience rejection, and might have extra stuff to deal with, idk though.

Btw, sometimes I've seen people with head-worn mikes that look quite small and almost the color of their skin (and doesn't use a huge headband like a set of cans would), so it's almost like they're semi-camouflaged.  Does anyone know about those types of mikes, and if something like that might be a viable option, or... what would be the benefits or pitfalls of those?

 

 

Getting something like the Shure SM58 (or whatever) isn't an option as I don't have any XLR equipment (which would have to be included in the above budget), some wireless setups I've seen on places like SamAsh, Sweetwater, etc, use rackmount receivers (I don't have a place to put it, and they'd be too huge for my use anyway), and something like a Blue Yeti or other desk-mounted/standed microphone won't work either in this situation.  Also I do have a few other mikes laying around, and have tested them, but the level is way too low - I was practically performing up-close-and-personal oral interaction with them while almost shouting into them, and it was barely a weak blip on the levels in Audacity when plugged into my laptop.

 

 

 

 

I already have a Zoom H2n for recording the piano - pictures of its position is below.  (The bottom of the piano would be closed for streams, it was open for the pic so you could see the H2n.)

 

\

 

 

Spoiler: couple more pics of the H2n in the piano from different angles (with the bottom of the piano closed), and a couple comments on that and extra H2n's.

Spoiler

 

 

      

 

I don't yet have a recording of the audio from this mike setup, except for a test when I had other noisy things going in the house, and was seeing how well the microphone placement (and lowered gain) could mitigate that.  (It wasn't perfect, but probably would be "good enough" for live streams, but not good enough for recordings.  I would be using the MS setting, and gain pretty much all the way down near 0, maybe 1 or 2, I'd have to check again.  I hate using any dynamic range compression or limiting, and I would try to make sure that the loudest I would ever play wouldn't peak / overdrive the signal.)

 

 

I may have a 2nd or 3rd H2n somewhere, but there might be various things wrong with them, hence why I bought extras.  (I think one of them has flaky internal connections on a mike or two, another one the SD card retention mechanism won't catch, or something, I don't remember everything now, haven't used them in a few years or so.)  I was briefly thinking of using one of those (as long as the mikes and USB / 3.5mm connection work) for my voice, but I can see a couple problems - 1 - it'd be this huge thing right in front of my face, and 2 - out in the room like that, it would be terrible at ambient noise rejection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would also sometime like to set up a 2nd camera over the piano, looking down at the keyboard (and if the lid is open, the inside / action / strings), kind-of like this.

 

 

 

In the spoiler is a pic of me holding my phone at an approximate position from where I might shoot that 2nd camera angle, then a view of the upper part of the room with the walls and ceiling visible.

Spoiler

 

(The pic of me holding the phone was taken several months ago or so, the stepped-back pic with the walls & ceiling visible was taken tonight.)

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone have ideas of a way I can mount a phone (camera) over the piano, such that the phone (or actual camera, if purchased and used) and the mounting hardware is not visible in the frame from the main camera?  Drilling holes into the wall and/or ceiling is not desired.

 

 

Or, maybe I should hold off on that 2nd camera until I move to a different place (which is planned soon, but idk where yet, don't even know what city I'll be living near if I don't stay near San Diego which I can't afford to do, or what job I'd have, other than possibly streaming) - maybe I should postpone incorporating the 2nd camera a few months or so.  (I hope to move before then - end of this year is the goal but idk, there's a lot of issues regarding that but it's outside the scope of this forum, except the fact that I also have an interest in working with my hands with computer hardware, not software, like not doing work USING a computer.)  Also regarding buying headphones - some places I might consider moving to could see summer temperatures upwards of 45-50°C / 113-122°F sometimes, like Vegas, Phoenix, Tucson, or some other places, also NM, TX (west of I-35, north of I-10) are under consideration, so I would need to keep that in mind when choosing headphones if I buy some right away.

 

Also I might consider getting something like a Streamdeck eventually, but idk if or when I'll get one.  (I'd also consider other options as well.)

 

 

 

 

 

I would really like to start streaming as soon as possible (maybe this or next week, at least before I move) - maybe I should just start WITHOUT the voice mike, and just type in Twitch / YouTube chat between songs?

 

Then there's the issue of what to do about the clutter - someone else in the house would prefer it not be so visible in streams, that's why I'd be covering it.  (I do plan to clean it up at some point, there's other things that need to happen first.)  I wonder if the PC would still be usable even with the sheets covering the area?  I would be streaming from my laptop most likely, btw, not my desktop.  My upload bandwidth is around 10 Mb/s, so I'm thinking maybe 720p 30fps or so, as I don't want to apply a lot of "image" compression or whatever, like some streams I've seen where when you have fast action in games it turns to a blotchy pixelated mess - I don't want that.  (For example, when I export edited pics to JPG in GIMP, I almost never save below about 92% quality, often up around 95% or more.)
 

 

I'm sure there's some things I've forgotten, like I haven't said much about my preference on the headphones themselves (except mentioning slightly warm weather, which for cans might conflict with also wanting excellent isolation, etc).  I did have another topic asking about that (and mikes) a few months ago, but the forum doesn't exactly always appreciate necroing old posts, and my budget has changed since that post, maybe a few other things as well.

[The Flying Sloth]

I mean, you could always side chain so you don't have to worry about noise rejection, that would make it so when the piano plays the headset mic cuts out....

 

As for the noise rejection capabilities of specific headsets, I'm not really sure, headsets are the furthest thing from the mics I deal with. If you're considering a 58 (except for the XLR bit) a Samson Q2U or AT2005 may be of use to you, works like a 58 but is also USB compliant.

[Ahoy Hoy]

Id say a headsat microphone but Ive not used much in your budget or in the American market so I couldn't comment on rejection of the piano. My only thought would be to get a large capsule as its easier to get good rejection at a low price point with a large housing. On sweetwater thats the only product I recognise at your price point
I think you may get away getting a XLR to Jack adapter. Like that link but do a bit of searching for a cheap one thats way too expensive. Then plugging the microphone into the mic/line in on the H2. That would save you some money of getting a audio interface just for a microphone.
Plugging direct into the H2 be fine to start up with be a bit fiddly getting it set up as to change the level on the mic you got to crawl under the piano but starting off it be fine just to find out if you enjoy recording streaming etc. Maybe in the future getting a large audio interface with multiple microphone inputs would be the next upgrade. That would make it easier for you to get new microphones and add them into the set up easily. Maybe something like the Steinberg UR22 Its a bit more expensive them some rivals but it also comes with a copy of Cuebase which maybe something youd like.

You camera problem. Mic stands have same screw sizes as a lot of cameras. If not you can get adapters just google phone hold to mic stand or camera to mic stand. Maybe dont get the cheapest mic stand as the camera is normally heavier then a microphone and dont want that to fall over.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

13 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

I mean, you could always side chain so you don't have to worry about noise rejection, that would make it so when the piano plays the headset mic cuts out....

Ah, I'm not really sure what you mean by "side chain"ing?  And how would the headset mic cuts out when piano plays be triggered on an acoustic piano?  Would it be based on signal level from its microphone exceeding a certain level or something like that?  (Also I sometimes might want to be able to talk WHILE playing, btw I can't type and play at the same time, at least I haven't learned that skill yet lol.)

13 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

As for the noise rejection capabilities of specific headsets, I'm not really sure, headsets are the furthest thing from the mics I deal with.

Okay.  (Btw I was thinking of noise isolation for the headphones part separately from the ambient noise rejection of the mike, but if I get a headset / headphone+mic combo I'd like both to be good.  What kinds of mics do you normally deal with?

13 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

If you're considering a 58 (except for the XLR bit) a Samson Q2U or AT2005 may be of use to you, works like a 58 but is also USB compliant.

Those definitely look like they're in my price range, but while I do have an older cheap mike stand or two (probably was like $5 or maybe $10 like 20 or 30 years ago), idk that it would work well with my setup as far as placement is concerned.  I'm thinking the best placement for the voice mike would be very close to my mouth for the best chance of picking up my voice while rejecting other things, cause then I wouldn't need nearly as much gain.  I would like to be able to see the piano keys and any music I might put on the music desk.  A big mike that close in front of my face would block my view (even if it's so close it's out of focus), and putting it on a stand ON the piano would of course pick up the piano (and other stuff cause the gain would have to be cranked up).

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Id say a headsat microphone but Ive not used much in your budget or in the American market so I couldn't comment on rejection of the piano. My only thought would be to get a large capsule as its easier to get good rejection at a low price point with a large housing. On sweetwater thats the only product I recognise at your price point
I think you may get away getting a XLR to Jack adapter. Like that link but do a bit of searching for a cheap one thats way too expensive.

Ahh, that Audio-Technica mic maybe looks interesting, but the adapter cable looks like about 4x what I'd hope to pay for one.  One possible concern with it though, I don't think I'd need the ear pieces, as I'd also sometime like to get a pair of full-size headphones (if I don't get an actual headset combo or whatever).

7 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Then plugging the microphone into the mic/line in on the H2. That would save you some money of getting a audio interface just for a microphone.
Plugging direct into the H2 be fine to start up with be a bit fiddly getting it set up as to change the level on the mic you got to crawl under the piano but starting off it be fine just to find out if you enjoy recording streaming etc.

Hmm I don't think plugging the mike into the H2n would be a viable option, as it doesn't have a way to separately adjust the MS and XY levels while recording live.  (The piano would be recorded with the MS mikes, and the plugged-in mike would take the place of the XY - btw it's a stereo 3.5mm input jack.)  You can adjust the levels on already existing recordings, but that doesn't help when you're live.

 

My plan was to connect the H2n to the PC via USB (or I could connect it to a line-in jack on the laptop or the FZ1000 camera via 3.5mm), and plug the voice mike into the laptop via 3.5mm connector.  I may need to get a USB hub though - my laptop has 4 USB ports (1 is a combo eSATA port), and right now I have my wireless mouse (Logitech G602), keyboard (Logitech K360) and Cam Link 4K using 3 of those ports.  (I wonder if there's a way to use just one wireless dongle with both keyboard and mouse...)  I was thinking the H2n would be plugged into the combo USB/eSATA port, which would mean I'd have to plug a mike either into the camera itself (I'd rather just have the camera mike available just in case I might need to use it on the fly sometime), or into the 3.5mm mic-in port on the laptop.

7 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Maybe in the future getting a large audio interface with multiple microphone inputs would be the next upgrade. That would make it easier for you to get new microphones and add them into the set up easily. Maybe something like the Steinberg UR22 Its a bit more expensive them some rivals but it also comes with a copy of Cuebase which maybe something youd like.

Yeah... I'm thinking an audio interface might be in my future sometime, but not for a while yet.  I'd be doing other things besides streaming when I do get one - for example we have probably hundreds or more of old cassettes, VHS, reel-to-reel tapes, vinyl records, etc.  I'd like to someday be able to convert those to digital format as "losslessly" as possible, and if I could have several sources being input simultaneously it would cut down on time quite a bit.  ("Losslessly" - some tapes I have, at least on my dinky cheap players, have quite a bit of flutter or wow (or whatever happens when your high frequency response fades in and out every couple seconds), and I've heard that some better quality tape decks have something like dual capstans, more stable transport, on-the-fly auto azimuth adjustment, etc... but a couple of the tape decks that were recommended about 10 or 15 years ago were going for around $1000 or so USED.  So I'd need to be saving up some $ for a while, probably at least a few years or a decade maybe; also I think some kind of rackmount setup might be in my future when I have my own place, but I don't have a place to put one now.)

 

I know some higher-end versions of the Zoom (like the earlier H4n, or the more recent H5/H6) have more inputs, XLR inputs, etc.... but one of the big reasons I got the H2n was because I wanted INTERNAL 4-channel recording, without having to hook up extra mikes.  (Yes I know using external mikes gives you a lot more leeway in mike placement, but I wanted to keep the setup simple and unobtrusive.)  I was often using it to record church services - generally I'd face the MS side of the H2n toward the audience and the XY toward the stage, except at church camps when there were likely to be groups singing on stage, in which case I'd turn it around.  That is, until a certain thing hit --- (hey what's the name of the city near where Interstate 15 and state route 91 in California intersect?  And the name of a category of usually malicious computer software that injects its code into other files and copies itself?)  As far as I know, the H2n was (and probably still is) the ONLY portable battery-operated device on the market in the ~$150-180 range (my approximate budget when I got it) that has internal-mic 4-channel recording capability.

 

7 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

You camera problem. Mic stands have same screw sizes as a lot of cameras. If not you can get adapters just google phone hold to mic stand or camera to mic stand. Maybe dont get the cheapest mic stand as the camera is normally heavier then a microphone and dont want that to fall over.

Ahh.  I was trying to figure out a way to mount an over-keyboard camera in a way so it, and its mounting / supporting hardware, couldn't be seen in the frame for the main shot (from off to the side of the piano).  I could probably do without that 2nd camera angle for now.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway ... I think the easiest thing for me would be some kind of head-mounted microphone (like one of those that you wear on the side of your face, and has a cord to a little box in your pocket with a transmitter, so long as the receiver is fairly compact, like about the same size as the transmitter), or something like that, that I'd wear on my head (probably on the side opposite from where my main camera would be shooting - so on my left side, since the camera would be shooting me and the piano from the right), and plugged into a 3.5mm jack.  I might have some ability to adjust levels in OBS, but I'm not sure how much gain I'd have.  (I briefly tested a couple older 1980s/1990s vintage dyanmic mikes jacked directly into my laptop (via 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapters) a while ago, and the levels were fairly low and it was all in one side.)

 

I'd like to get started streaming asap ... I wonder if I should just eschew the voice mike for now, just use the H2n inside the piano to pick that up, and settle for typing in Twitch chat between songs for now?

[The Flying Sloth]

4 minutes ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

Ah, I'm not really sure what you mean by "side chain"ing?  And how would the headset mic cuts out when piano plays be triggered on an acoustic piano?  Would it be based on signal level from its microphone exceeding a certain level or something like that?  (Also I sometimes might want to be able to talk WHILE playing, btw I can't type and play at the same time, at least I haven't learned that skill yet lol.)

Okay.  (Btw I was thinking of noise isolation for the headphones part separately from the ambient noise rejection of the mike, but if I get a headset / headphone+mic combo I'd like both to be good.  What kinds of mics do you normally deal with?

Those definitely look like they're in my price range, but while I do have an older cheap mike stand or two (probably was like $5 or maybe $10 like 20 or 30 years ago), idk that it would work well with my setup as far as placement is concerned.  I'm thinking the best placement for the voice mike would be very close to my mouth for the best chance of picking up my voice while rejecting other things, cause then I wouldn't need nearly as much gain.  I would like to be able to see the piano keys and any music I might put on the music desk.  A big mike that close in front of my face would block my view (even if it's so close it's out of focus), and putting it on a stand ON the piano would of course pick up the piano (and other stuff cause the gain would have to be cranked up).

 

 

 

Ahh, that Audio-Technica mic maybe looks interesting, but the adapter cable looks like about 4x what I'd hope to pay for one.  One possible concern with it though, I don't think I'd need the ear pieces, as I'd also sometime like to get a pair of full-size headphones (if I don't get an actual headset combo or whatever).

Hmm I don't think plugging the mike into the H2n would be a viable option, as it doesn't have a way to separately adjust the MS and XY levels while recording live.  (The piano would be recorded with the MS mikes, and the plugged-in mike would take the place of the XY - btw it's a stereo 3.5mm input jack.)  You can adjust the levels on already existing recordings, but that doesn't help when you're live.

 

My plan was to connect the H2n to the PC via USB (or I could connect it to a line-in jack on the laptop or the FZ1000 camera via 3.5mm), and plug the voice mike into the laptop via 3.5mm connector.  I may need to get a USB hub though - my laptop has 4 USB ports (1 is a combo eSATA port), and right now I have my wireless mouse (Logitech G602), keyboard (Logitech K360) and Cam Link 4K using 3 of those ports.  (I wonder if there's a way to use just one wireless dongle with both keyboard and mouse...)  I was thinking the H2n would be plugged into the combo USB/eSATA port, which would mean I'd have to plug a mike either into the camera itself (I'd rather just have the camera mike available just in case I might need to use it on the fly sometime), or into the 3.5mm mic-in port on the laptop.

Yeah... I'm thinking an audio interface might be in my future sometime, but not for a while yet.  I'd be doing other things besides streaming when I do get one - for example we have probably hundreds or more of old cassettes, VHS, reel-to-reel tapes, vinyl records, etc.  I'd like to someday be able to convert those to digital format as "losslessly" as possible, and if I could have several sources being input simultaneously it would cut down on time quite a bit.  ("Losslessly" - some tapes I have, at least on my dinky cheap players, have quite a bit of flutter or wow (or whatever happens when your high frequency response fades in and out every couple seconds), and I've heard that some better quality tape decks have something like dual capstans, more stable transport, on-the-fly auto azimuth adjustment, etc... but a couple of the tape decks that were recommended about 10 or 15 years ago were going for around $1000 or so USED.  So I'd need to be saving up some $ for a while, probably at least a few years or a decade maybe; also I think some kind of rackmount setup might be in my future when I have my own place, but I don't have a place to put one now.)

 

I know some higher-end versions of the Zoom (like the earlier H4n, or the more recent H5/H6) have more inputs, XLR inputs, etc.... but one of the big reasons I got the H2n was because I wanted INTERNAL 4-channel recording, without having to hook up extra mikes.  (Yes I know using external mikes gives you a lot more leeway in mike placement, but I wanted to keep the setup simple and unobtrusive.)  I was often using it to record church services - generally I'd face the MS side of the H2n toward the audience and the XY toward the stage, except at church camps when there were likely to be groups singing on stage, in which case I'd turn it around.  That is, until a certain thing hit --- (hey what's the name of the city near where Interstate 15 and state route 91 in California intersect?  And the name of a category of usually malicious computer software that injects its code into other files and copies itself?)  As far as I know, the H2n was (and probably still is) the ONLY portable battery-operated device on the market in the ~$150-180 range (my approximate budget when I got it) that has internal-mic 4-channel recording capability.

 

Ahh.  I was trying to figure out a way to mount an over-keyboard camera in a way so it, and its mounting / supporting hardware, couldn't be seen in the frame for the main shot (from off to the side of the piano).  I could probably do without that 2nd camera angle for now.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway ... I think the easiest thing for me would be some kind of head-mounted microphone (like one of those that you wear on the side of your face, and has a cord to a little box in your pocket with a transmitter, so long as the receiver is fairly compact, like about the same size as the transmitter), or something like that, that I'd wear on my head (probably on the side opposite from where my main camera would be shooting - so on my left side, since the camera would be shooting me and the piano from the right), and plugged into a 3.5mm jack.  I might have some ability to adjust levels in OBS, but I'm not sure how much gain I'd have.  (I briefly tested a couple older 1980s/1990s vintage dyanmic mikes jacked directly into my laptop (via 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapters) a while ago, and the levels were fairly low and it was all in one side.)

 

I'd like to get started streaming asap ... I wonder if I should just eschew the voice mike for now, just use the H2n inside the piano to pick that up, and settle for typing in Twitch chat between songs for now?

Studio audio (XLR) is mostly my area of expertise and yes, side chaining is a technique where sound levels from one source are reduced based on the sound levels of another source. Turning it on and off could probably be done with a macro if you wanted that option.

 

As for mounting, put the stand to your side and point the mic at the corner of your mouth, that should work pretty good. If you really wanted to go with a hardware option you can get XLR pedals that can act as PTT or PTM devices to allow you to talk when you choose to but that would require you moving to a full XLR setup.

 

Now, I know you have an idea in mind and have mics and stuff already but if I were setting this up from the start I would purchase a UMC404HD, Behringer C2 set and a T.bone MB75 for a complete audio solution. When it comes to cameras or phone mounts, like explained above they should have the same threading as a mic stand.

 

For setting up a solution with the hardware you already have a dynamic headset mic or lapel may be useful for you and there are many 3.5mm options available.

[Ahoy Hoy]

On 12/10/2020 at 11:40 PM, The Flying Sloth said:

Studio audio (XLR) is mostly my area of expertise and yes, side chaining is a technique where sound levels from one source are reduced based on the sound levels of another source. Turning it on and off could probably be done with a macro if you wanted that option.

Its only called side chaining in music production, in live recording its referred to as ducking.

Also heads up Thomann charges for shipping to USA and there also import duty so most case its not worth buying a from Thomann for USA. For the MB75 by the time you pay shipping and duty its cheaper to buy a SM57 from Sweetwater.

[Ahoy Hoy]

On 12/10/2020 at 11:28 PM, PianoPlayer88Key said:

Ahh.  I was trying to figure out a way to mount an over-keyboard camera in a way so it, and its mounting / supporting hardware, couldn't be seen in the frame for the main shot (from off to the side of the piano).  I could probably do without that 2nd camera angle for now.

You can get very large mic stands with long booms to reach over and still be out of frame of the other camera.

Not to sure what to recommend with the microphones.

Just go without a mic as there's a high likely hood while on twitch you could be streaming to no viewers for a while even if you have the worst or the best sound set up. Do it if you enjoy doing it and start to see a viewer increase then look at improving things.

[The Flying Sloth]

5 hours ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Also heads up Thomann charges for shipping to USA and there also import duty so most case its not worth buying a from Thomann for USA. For the MB75 by the time you pay shipping and duty its cheaper to buy a SM57 from Sweetwater.

Of course they charge shipping..... Which is why you buy the whole lot from them so the increase in cost is spread across multiple products which ends up still being well below US or AU local prices......