Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Ram question

Go to solution Solved by BTGbullseye,
7 hours ago, JayR said:

Could you link me to a 64 gb kit?

I'm trying to return the one I have, just need to know what to get before I return it.

 

Thank you 

Here's one that will be approximately one half step down from the absolute best RAM you can get, but has the benefit of actually being in stock.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374091

 

If you're wanting to save a few bucks, this is one step down...

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232914

 

If you're looking to save a little more, this should be very similar to the previous set.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232900

here's my build

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Kqckwz

 

 

I ordered all my parts, only waiting for my CPU to get here.  

 

I got 32gbx2 ram (64gb) beacuse I want to have availability to upgrade to 128. 

 

I got G.Skil TridentZ RGB DDR4-3600 CL18

 

 

 

 

 

My question is should I go for lower CL rating like cl 14 or 16 and 3200 mhz

 

does the new AMD CPUs like faster mhz or lower CL?

 

 

 

I also wonder if that ram I got will work with my motherboard. I was looking at G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series is optimized for AMD x570 chipset. This is the other ram I'm talking about.

 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232952

 

 

 

The picture I attached is the Trident Z Neo Series specs

 

 

 

 

 

 

Screenshot_20201208-024827.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, JayR said:

AMD CPUs like faster mhz

Ryzen CPUs seem to get the most out of faster RAM.

That's all I know about Ryzen chips.

So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

Ryzen CPUs seem to get the most out of faster RAM.

That's all I know about Ryzen chips.

So I should keep my ram instead of getting cl 16 3200?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JayR said:

So I should keep my ram instead of getting cl 16 3200?

Personally, I think the faster speed will be better, so that's what I would do, keep the faster RAM

So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your current RAM is pretty garbage for timings at that speed. I've seen $40 kits that would easily outperform it.

 

The second kit is also not that great, especially since it's still only 2 sticks total. (4 sticks will significantly improve performance)

 

Is there a specific reason you're going for so much RAM? Planning on opening several million Chrome tabs at once or something?

CPURyzen 7 5800X Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm AIO with push-pull Arctic P12 PWM fans RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V 4x8GB 3600 16-16-16-30

MotherboardASRock X570M Pro4 GPUASRock RX 5700 XT Reference with Eiswolf GPX-Pro 240 AIO Case: Antec P5 PSU: Rosewill Capstone 750M

Monitor: MSI Optix MAG272CR Case Fans: 2x Arctic P12 PWM Storage: HP EX950 1TB NVMe, Mushkin Pilot-E 1TB NVMe, 2x Constellation ES 2TB in RAID1

https://hwbot.org/submission/4497882_btgbullseye_gpupi_v3.3___32b_radeon_rx_5700_xt_13min_37sec_848ms

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Your current RAM is pretty garbage for timings at that speed. I've seen $40 kits that would easily outperform it.

 

The second kit is also not that great, especially since it's still only 2 sticks total. (4 sticks will significantly improve performance)

 

Is there a specific reason you're going for so much RAM? Planning on opening several million Chrome tabs at once or something?

Yeah pretty much. I want to be able to upgrade my 64gb to 128 in time. You having the 5800x what ram would you recommend?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Your current RAM is pretty garbage for timings at that speed. I've seen $40 kits that would easily outperform it.

 

The second kit is also not that great, especially since it's still only 2 sticks total. (4 sticks will significantly improve performance)

 

Is there a specific reason you're going for so much RAM? Planning on opening several million Chrome tabs at once or something?

Maybe something like 3600 mhz 16 cl?

What looks so bad about my ram? Is it beacuse it's 18 cl? I assume 3600 is good because you use that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JayR said:

Yeah pretty much. I want to be able to upgrade my 64gb to 128 in time.

Yeah, but what are you using it for? If you're just gaming, then it's an utter waste of money for capacity you'll never use, at the additional price of substandard performance.

5 hours ago, JayR said:

Maybe something like 3600 mhz 16 cl?

CL isn't the only timings that matter.

5 hours ago, JayR said:

What looks so bad about my ram? Is it beacuse it's 18 cl?

It's because it's 18-22-22, which is only poor quality RAM chips. If it was 18-20-20, then it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is, that's probably unstable timings as-is.

5 hours ago, JayR said:

I assume 3600 is good because you use that.

I got 3600 16-16-16 because it was both the highest performing RAM available at that time, and because it's Samsung B-die RAM chips, so it can be overclocked without voltage increase, or undervoltage at the same timings. It was one of the most expensive RAM kits available at the time. Now it's just in the top few for performance, along with several other kits.

5 hours ago, JayR said:

You having the 5800x what ram would you recommend?

Best kits right now:

 

3200 14-14-14

3600 16-16-16

3800 14-16-16 (this is now the best, and the most expensive)

 

None of those kits come in capacities above 16GB per module however as far as I can tell, so you're not going above 64GB with this level of performance. These will give as much as 5% better framerates in games, (compared to your current RAM) and if using 4 modules, will give an extra 3-5% on top of that.

CPURyzen 7 5800X Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm AIO with push-pull Arctic P12 PWM fans RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V 4x8GB 3600 16-16-16-30

MotherboardASRock X570M Pro4 GPUASRock RX 5700 XT Reference with Eiswolf GPX-Pro 240 AIO Case: Antec P5 PSU: Rosewill Capstone 750M

Monitor: MSI Optix MAG272CR Case Fans: 2x Arctic P12 PWM Storage: HP EX950 1TB NVMe, Mushkin Pilot-E 1TB NVMe, 2x Constellation ES 2TB in RAID1

https://hwbot.org/submission/4497882_btgbullseye_gpupi_v3.3___32b_radeon_rx_5700_xt_13min_37sec_848ms

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Yeah, but what are you using it for? If you're just gaming, then it's an utter waste of money for capacity you'll never use, at the additional price of substandard performance.

CL isn't the only timings that matter.

It's because it's 18-22-22, which is only poor quality RAM chips. If it was 18-20-20, then it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is, that's probably unstable timings as-is.

I got 3600 16-16-16 because it was both the highest performing RAM available at that time, and because it's Samsung B-die RAM chips, so it can be overclocked without voltage increase, or undervoltage at the same timings. It was one of the most expensive RAM kits available at the time. Now it's just in the top few for performance, along with several other kits.

Best kits right now:

 

3200 14-14-14

3600 16-16-16

3800 14-16-16 (this is now the best, and the most expensive)

 

None of those kits come in capacities above 16GB per module however as far as I can tell, so you're not going above 64GB with this level of performance. These will give as much as 5% better framerates in games, (compared to your current RAM) and if using 4 modules, will give an extra 3-5% on top of that.

 

"None of those kits come in capacities above 16GB per module however as far as I can tell, so you're not going above 64GB with this level of performance. "

 

Could you link me to a kit that can go up to 64gb or 128gb max? Preferably 32x2 kit so I could upgrade.

 

 

I will be using it for graphic design and video editing. I always have 50+ tabs open and other software. I use three monitors

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Yeah, but what are you using it for? If you're just gaming, then it's an utter waste of money for capacity you'll never use, at the additional price of substandard performance.

CL isn't the only timings that matter.

It's because it's 18-22-22, which is only poor quality RAM chips. If it was 18-20-20, then it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is, that's probably unstable timings as-is.

I got 3600 16-16-16 because it was both the highest performing RAM available at that time, and because it's Samsung B-die RAM chips, so it can be overclocked without voltage increase, or undervoltage at the same timings. It was one of the most expensive RAM kits available at the time. Now it's just in the top few for performance, along with several other kits.

Best kits right now:

 

3200 14-14-14

3600 16-16-16

3800 14-16-16 (this is now the best, and the most expensive)

 

None of those kits come in capacities above 16GB per module however as far as I can tell, so you're not going above 64GB with this level of performance. These will give as much as 5% better framerates in games, (compared to your current RAM) and if using 4 modules, will give an extra 3-5% on top of that.

Thoughts on ddr5? Maybe should I wait for that stuff to come out next year?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JayR said:

Thoughts on ddr5? Maybe should I wait for that stuff to come out next year?

DDR5 will be out next year for enterprise systems only. If you're willing to pay $50k for a new system at that time, then go right ahead. Otherwise, it'll be at least another year after that before it's hitting the enthusiast systems, and another year for true mainstream.

8 hours ago, JayR said:

"None of those kits come in capacities above 16GB per module however as far as I can tell, so you're not going above 64GB with this level of performance. "

Could you link me to a kit that can go up to 64gb or 128gb max? Preferably 32x2 kit so I could upgrade.

I will be using it for graphic design and video editing. I always have 50+ tabs open and other software. I use three monitors

As I said before, there aren't any. Higher capacities are only available in lower performance. If you can stand having only 64GB (which even graphic design and video editing would be hard pressed to fill) then you can get significantly better performance, but not if you need/want to go higher.

CPURyzen 7 5800X Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm AIO with push-pull Arctic P12 PWM fans RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V 4x8GB 3600 16-16-16-30

MotherboardASRock X570M Pro4 GPUASRock RX 5700 XT Reference with Eiswolf GPX-Pro 240 AIO Case: Antec P5 PSU: Rosewill Capstone 750M

Monitor: MSI Optix MAG272CR Case Fans: 2x Arctic P12 PWM Storage: HP EX950 1TB NVMe, Mushkin Pilot-E 1TB NVMe, 2x Constellation ES 2TB in RAID1

https://hwbot.org/submission/4497882_btgbullseye_gpupi_v3.3___32b_radeon_rx_5700_xt_13min_37sec_848ms

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/8/2020 at 7:41 PM, JayR said:

here's my build

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Kqckwz

 

 

I ordered all my parts, only waiting for my CPU to get here.  

 

I got 32gbx2 ram (64gb) beacuse I want to have availability to upgrade to 128. 

 

I got G.Skil TridentZ RGB DDR4-3600 CL18

 

 

 

 

 

My question is should I go for lower CL rating like cl 14 or 16 and 3200 mhz

 

does the new AMD CPUs like faster mhz or lower CL?

 

 

 

I also wonder if that ram I got will work with my motherboard. I was looking at G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series is optimized for AMD x570 chipset. This is the other ram I'm talking about.

 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232952

 

 

 

The picture I attached is the Trident Z Neo Series specs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RAM choice is very simple on Ryzen: go with a 3600 or 3733 kit with the tightest timings you can afford, and set 1:1 dram-infinity fabric clock. 3600 cl 16, or 3733 cl 17 should be enough.

9900k @ 5.1, 1.32v

Z390 Designare

16gb Patriot Viper B-die @ 4000 15-15-15-33 1.55v daily 

EVGA CLC 360 + 3x industrial NFF-12s

RTX 2070 Super FE

Samsung 970 Evo 500GB

ADATA SU635 2TB

Seasonic 650 Gold 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

DDR5 will be out next year for enterprise systems only. If you're willing to pay $50k for a new system at that time, then go right ahead. Otherwise, it'll be at least another year after that before it's hitting the enthusiast systems, and another year for true mainstream.

As I said before, there aren't any. Higher capacities are only available in lower performance. If you can stand having only 64GB (which even graphic design and video editing would be hard pressed to fill) then you can get significantly better performance, but not if you need/want to go higher.

Could you link me to a 64 gb kit?

I'm trying to return the one I have, just need to know what to get before I return it.

 

Thank you 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, 5GigsOrBust said:

RAM choice is very simple on Ryzen: go with a 3600 or 3733 kit with the tightest timings you can afford, and set 1:1 dram-infinity fabric clock. 3600 cl 16, or 3733 cl 17 should be enough.

Any recommendation you can link me to?

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JayR said:

Could you link me to a 64 gb kit?

I'm trying to return the one I have, just need to know what to get before I return it.

 

Thank you 

Here's one that will be approximately one half step down from the absolute best RAM you can get, but has the benefit of actually being in stock.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374091

 

If you're wanting to save a few bucks, this is one step down...

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232914

 

If you're looking to save a little more, this should be very similar to the previous set.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232900

CPURyzen 7 5800X Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm AIO with push-pull Arctic P12 PWM fans RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V 4x8GB 3600 16-16-16-30

MotherboardASRock X570M Pro4 GPUASRock RX 5700 XT Reference with Eiswolf GPX-Pro 240 AIO Case: Antec P5 PSU: Rosewill Capstone 750M

Monitor: MSI Optix MAG272CR Case Fans: 2x Arctic P12 PWM Storage: HP EX950 1TB NVMe, Mushkin Pilot-E 1TB NVMe, 2x Constellation ES 2TB in RAID1

https://hwbot.org/submission/4497882_btgbullseye_gpupi_v3.3___32b_radeon_rx_5700_xt_13min_37sec_848ms

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/12/2020 at 7:50 AM, BTGbullseye said:

Here's one that will be approximately one half step down from the absolute best RAM you can get, but has the benefit of actually being in stock.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374091

 

If you're wanting to save a few bucks, this is one step down...

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232914

 

If you're looking to save a little more, this should be very similar to the previous set.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232900

Awesome I'll probably be going with this set

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232914

 

Unless I can find this set in stock

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374091

 

I don't mind the price difference.

 

I guess I will resale the kit when ddr5 is out for consumers.

 

What will be the percentage of performance that I'll be getting out of gaming and workstation usage? 

 

You also said these are better for overclocking, beacuse they don't pull extra voltage? 

I'm looking to over clock my entire build, that's why I chose the motherboard that I did.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/12/2020 at 7:50 AM, BTGbullseye said:

Here's one that will be approximately one half step down from the absolute best RAM you can get, but has the benefit of actually being in stock.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374091

 

If you're wanting to save a few bucks, this is one step down...

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232914

 

If you're looking to save a little more, this should be very similar to the previous set.

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232900

When you're looking to my ram, you look for the lowest Cl rating and timing.

What do the first 4 numbers reference for timing like 14-14-14-14 and then what does the last number reference? -35?

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, JayR said:

What will be the percentage of performance that I'll be getting out of gaming and workstation usage? 

Depends on the specific programs you use, and the workload. It could be anywhere from a +10% boost, to no appreciable performance increase.

10 minutes ago, JayR said:

You also said these are better for overclocking, beacuse they don't pull extra voltage? 

I'm looking to over clock my entire build, that's why I chose the motherboard that I did.

Not just because of the lower voltage, but that is a part of it. It's also better chips in general that can handle higher voltages, and run cooler. It's also more stable when overclocked. It even includes having a better PCB that the chips are attached to.

5 minutes ago, JayR said:

When you're looking to my ram, you look for the lowest Cl rating and timing.

What do the first 4 numbers reference for timing like 14-14-14-14 and then what does the last number reference? -35?

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras

CPURyzen 7 5800X Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm AIO with push-pull Arctic P12 PWM fans RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V 4x8GB 3600 16-16-16-30

MotherboardASRock X570M Pro4 GPUASRock RX 5700 XT Reference with Eiswolf GPX-Pro 240 AIO Case: Antec P5 PSU: Rosewill Capstone 750M

Monitor: MSI Optix MAG272CR Case Fans: 2x Arctic P12 PWM Storage: HP EX950 1TB NVMe, Mushkin Pilot-E 1TB NVMe, 2x Constellation ES 2TB in RAID1

https://hwbot.org/submission/4497882_btgbullseye_gpupi_v3.3___32b_radeon_rx_5700_xt_13min_37sec_848ms

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Depends on the specific programs you use, and the workload. It could be anywhere from a +10% boost, to no appreciable performance increase.

Not just because of the lower voltage, but that is a part of it. It's also better chips in general that can handle higher voltages, and run cooler. It's also more stable when overclocked. It even includes having a better PCB that the chips are attached to.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras

Great, thanks for the info!

 

I watched nexus video, he claims that it depends on the bios In the motherboard to reach those timing once you enabled xmp.

Hopefully the motherboard I've chosen work well with what I am trying to achieve.

 

Worth waiting tell the best kit you suggested is back in stock or go with the mid kit that is in stock?

Edited by JayR
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Depends on the specific programs you use, and the workload. It could be anywhere from a +10% boost, to no appreciable performance increase.

Not just because of the lower voltage, but that is a part of it. It's also better chips in general that can handle higher voltages, and run cooler. It's also more stable when overclocked. It even includes having a better PCB that the chips are attached to.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras

Do you think a lower mhz set like 3200 with lower Cas and timings would be faster than the 3600 mhz kit you linked.

 

If they don't make at least 64gb kits then disregard this question 🙂

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, JayR said:

I watched nexus video, he claims that it depends on the bios In the motherboard to reach those timing once you enabled xmp.

Hopefully the motherboard I've chosen work well with what I am trying to achieve.

If you're on Intel, it's linked to the motherboard. If you're on AMD, it's linked to both the motherboard and the CPU. (Ryzen 5000 series will top out with DDR4 4000 speeds realistically, and Ryzen 3000 will do about 3800)

11 hours ago, JayR said:

Worth waiting tell the best kit you suggested is back in stock or go with the mid kit that is in stock?

It depends on if a few percentage points of performance under the exactly right situation is worth it to you.

10 hours ago, JayR said:

Do you think a lower mhz set like 3200 with lower Cas and timings would be faster than the 3600 mhz kit you linked.

Look at the 3rd link of suggested RAM I provided. That's 3200 14-14-14, and should perform effectively the same as the 3600 16-16-16 kit. (it's also effectively identical to what Gamer's Nexus uses for their benchmarking tests)

CPURyzen 7 5800X Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm AIO with push-pull Arctic P12 PWM fans RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V 4x8GB 3600 16-16-16-30

MotherboardASRock X570M Pro4 GPUASRock RX 5700 XT Reference with Eiswolf GPX-Pro 240 AIO Case: Antec P5 PSU: Rosewill Capstone 750M

Monitor: MSI Optix MAG272CR Case Fans: 2x Arctic P12 PWM Storage: HP EX950 1TB NVMe, Mushkin Pilot-E 1TB NVMe, 2x Constellation ES 2TB in RAID1

https://hwbot.org/submission/4497882_btgbullseye_gpupi_v3.3___32b_radeon_rx_5700_xt_13min_37sec_848ms

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Look at the 3rd link of suggested RAM I provided. That's 3200 14-14-14, and should perform effectively the same as the 3600 16-16-16 kit. (it's also effectively identical to what Gamer's Nexus uses for their benchmarking tests)

So the 2nd and 3rd link with perform almost the same in most situations?

 

But the first link will perform the best?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, JayR said:

So the 2nd and 3rd link with perform almost the same in most situations?

 

But the first link will perform the best?

Correct.

CPURyzen 7 5800X Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm AIO with push-pull Arctic P12 PWM fans RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V 4x8GB 3600 16-16-16-30

MotherboardASRock X570M Pro4 GPUASRock RX 5700 XT Reference with Eiswolf GPX-Pro 240 AIO Case: Antec P5 PSU: Rosewill Capstone 750M

Monitor: MSI Optix MAG272CR Case Fans: 2x Arctic P12 PWM Storage: HP EX950 1TB NVMe, Mushkin Pilot-E 1TB NVMe, 2x Constellation ES 2TB in RAID1

https://hwbot.org/submission/4497882_btgbullseye_gpupi_v3.3___32b_radeon_rx_5700_xt_13min_37sec_848ms

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/14/2020 at 10:31 PM, BTGbullseye said:

Correct.

Do you know much about monitors?

 

I'm looking for a set of two for design and some gaming. I'll most likely get a specific one just for gaming at some point.

 

Here are a few I'm looking at, can't find any differences between them and reddit is doing no justice. So I'm thinking about going with the ul beacuse it will save some money, but if the other's are better I'd rather pay for it.

Lg 27ul850-w vs 27un850-w vs 27UK850-w

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JayR said:

Lg 27ul850-w vs 27un850-w vs 27UK850-w

The UK has a more powerful power adapter.

The UK does not have VESA HDR400 certification like the other two. (despite appearing to use the exact same panel)

The UL supports automatic color calibration if you have the tool, whereas the others do not support the tool but are calibrated from the factory.

 

All else appears to be identical between the 3 monitors. My guess is that the UK was the first one they made, then they put a better PSU in it for the other two which allowed it to meet the VESA HDR400 spec, and the UL just had support for the color calibration tool baked in.

CPURyzen 7 5800X Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120mm AIO with push-pull Arctic P12 PWM fans RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V 4x8GB 3600 16-16-16-30

MotherboardASRock X570M Pro4 GPUASRock RX 5700 XT Reference with Eiswolf GPX-Pro 240 AIO Case: Antec P5 PSU: Rosewill Capstone 750M

Monitor: MSI Optix MAG272CR Case Fans: 2x Arctic P12 PWM Storage: HP EX950 1TB NVMe, Mushkin Pilot-E 1TB NVMe, 2x Constellation ES 2TB in RAID1

https://hwbot.org/submission/4497882_btgbullseye_gpupi_v3.3___32b_radeon_rx_5700_xt_13min_37sec_848ms

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×