Motherboard potentially unable to handle XMP with 4 memory sticks

[n0stalghia]

I've upgraded my RAM today and immediately started getting BSODs. Here's my config, the relevant parts of it:

 

CPU - Ryzen 7 3800X

Motherboard - MSi X570 A-Pro

RAM - Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3600 C18, 4 sticks 8 GB each

 

I've had the very same RAM, but just with 2 sticks, for a year now. The system has been stable and I've had no experiences.

 

Today, I added two more identical RAM sticks. I'm running the default XMP profile my motherboard offers. Immediately after inserting the RAM (POSTed without errors) I started getting BSODs when doing "spiky" things in regards to RAM usage - opening AC: Odyssey or loading a lot of heavy software (PyCharm + CLion + DataGrip + Windows Subsystem for Linux + Oracle VM with CentOS + a couple of things in CentOS; total ~9 GB of RAM usage). When I opened all those programs at once as fast as possible, my system crashed with a BSOD error with the stop code PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAED_AREA, which leads me to believe it's RAM-related.

 

I've seen threads online about people being unable to run 4 sticks of Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM due to XMP problems before. I wonder if this could be the case here? Obviously I'm going to test with no XMP enabled, as well as with XMP enabled but slightly lower voltage to figure it out, but I want a second opinion if that theoretically could be the source of the problem.

 

Oh, and would going from 4x 8GB -> 2x 16 GB solve it, then? I assume yes. 

[svmlegacy]

7 minutes ago, n0stalghia said:

I've upgraded my RAM today and immediately started getting BSODs. Here's my config, the relevant parts of it:

 

CPU - Ryzen 7 3800X

Motherboard - MSi X570 A-Pro

RAM - Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3600 C18, 4 sticks 8 GB each

 

I've had the very same RAM, but just with 2 sticks, for a year now. The system has been stable and I've had no experiences.

 

Today, I added two more identical RAM sticks. I'm running the default XMP profile my motherboard offers. Immediately after inserting the RAM (POSTed without errors) I started getting BSODs when doing "spiky" things in regards to RAM usage - opening AC: Odyssey or loading a lot of heavy software (PyCharm + CLion + DataGrip + Windows Subsystem for Linux + Oracle VM with CentOS + a couple of things in CentOS; total ~9 GB of RAM usage). When I opened all those programs at once as fast as possible, my system crashed with a BSOD error with the stop code PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAED_AREA, which leads me to believe it's RAM-related.

 

I've seen threads online about people being unable to run 4 sticks of Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM due to XMP problems before. I wonder if this could be the case here? Obviously I'm going to test with no XMP enabled, as well as with XMP enabled but slightly lower voltage to figure it out, but I want a second opinion if that theoretically could be the source of the problem.

 

Oh, and would going from 4x 8GB -> 2x 16 GB solve it, then? I assume yes. 

3600 MT/s is considered overclocking. Your CPU is rated for 3200. More ranks loads the memory controller more, so it seems like this is too much for it without tweaking.

 

The number of DIMM's doesn't matter. Some 16 GB sticks are Dual Rank, which is effectively the same as 4x Single Rank sticks.

[Arrogath]

it is possible that the ram isn't as identical as you think, this is part of the reason why typically it's suggested to buy your memory all at once

then there's the BIOS version which may improve support if updated

you may also need to change the SoC voltage to 1.1 manually to get the memory controller to behave. I have had to do this with 3600 cl14 ram on my 3950x to get stable, do keep in mind that only 3200 is officially supported anything else is overclocking so may require some fine tuning.

Could also try changing phase control for your SoC components and Ram if that's an option, along with a small bump to DRAM voltage if it's reading lower than it's supposed to be. If you still can't get it stable you could manually change the timings down to 2t instead of allowing 1t+geardown mode

[n0stalghia]

3 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

3600 MT/s is considered overclocking. Your CPU is rated for 3200. More ranks loads the memory controller more, so it seems like this is too much for it without tweaking.

 

The number of DIMM's doesn't matter. Some 16 GB sticks are Dual Rank, which is effectively the same as 4x Single Rank sticks.

Huh, I have never heard of Dual Rank. Are there single rank 16 GB sticks? If that's the case, that could theoretically fix the issue, right?

 

But in any case, didn't know that 3800X was "only" rated for 3200 MHz, I think I'll just downgrade to that then.

[Arrogath]

Just now, n0stalghia said:

Huh, I have never heard of Dual Rank. Are there single rank 16 GB sticks? If that's the case, that could theoretically fix the issue, right?

 

But in any case, didn't know that 3800X was "only" rated for 3200 MHz, I think I'll just downgrade to that then.

please note you can just set the xmp profile and then change the memory speed down to 3200 so that you at least get the benefit of tighter timings, no need to go buying a different kit

[n0stalghia]

4 minutes ago, Arrogath said:

please note you can just set the xmp profile and then change the memory speed down to 3200 so that you at least get the benefit of tighter timings, no need to go buying a different kit

Yeah, that's definitely the most sensible thing to do - I've just got an option to switch to 2x 16 GB for an additional cost of 12 USD (a friend already offered to take two old 8GB sticks, I can return the new 2 sticks, and if I pay 10 additional EUR I can get a kit of 2x 16 GB 3600 MHz. Alas, it seems that my CPU might not be able to handle it, so yeah.

 

EDIT: Actually, this 10 EUR additional cost is for 3600 C18 RAM. If I get 3200 C16 RAM I come out ahead by 1 EUR. Lol.

[Arrogath]

Just now, n0stalghia said:

Yeah, that's definitely the most sensible thing to do - I've just got an option to switch to 2x 16 GB for an additional cost of 12 USD (a friend already offered to take two old 8GB sticks, I can return the new 2 sticks, and if I pay 10 additional EUR I can get a kit of 2x 16 GB 3600 MHz. Alas, it seems that my CPU might not be able to handle it, so yeah.

I think it will probably handle it, may just need a few minor voltage adjustments. More than 90% of the 3000 series support 3600 with minor adjustments at worst. Depends on your confidence changing bios settings I suppose, some of the memory manufacturers like G.Skill will even help walk you through getting your rated speed working if you're interested in that option.

[Kilrah]

Sometimes you have to manually raise the RAM voltage a bit when you use 4 sticks for the profile to work.

[n0stalghia]

4 minutes ago, Arrogath said:

I think it will probably handle it, may just need a few minor voltage adjustments. More than 90% of the 3000 series support 3600 with minor adjustments at worst. Depends on your confidence changing bios settings I suppose, some of the memory manufacturers like G.Skill will even help walk you through getting your rated speed working if you're interested in that option.

Might have to try that, albeit I'm not having great hopes about this - my motherboard isn't exactly the best, I believe that on the motherboard tier list it's somewhere around Tier D.

[n0stalghia]

40 minutes ago, Arrogath said:

it is possible that the ram isn't as identical as you think, this is part of the reason why typically it's suggested to buy your memory all at once

You could be onto something here. I fired up CPU-Z and found out that the RAM is not the same.

 

RAS# to CAS#, RAS# Percentage, tRAS and tRC all have different values between the two vendors of my RAM (2x Samsung, 2x Micron). Only CAS# Latency is the same.

 

No matter what the reason for the crashes is - my CPU's inability to hit 3600 because of a bad motherboard, or anything else - I think I'll send two sticks back and sell the two sticks to my friend in order to keep the memory the same, at least. If there are any problems arising from that, then I'll start looking into voltages and XMP profiles further.

 

Thanks, you've been a great help.
 

[svmlegacy]

3 hours ago, n0stalghia said:

Huh, I have never heard of Dual Rank. Are there single rank 16 GB sticks? If that's the case, that could theoretically fix the issue, right?

 

But in any case, didn't know that 3800X was "only" rated for 3200 MHz, I think I'll just downgrade to that then.

Yes, there are single-ranked 16 GB DIMM's. It's rather difficult to find information on it though. No samsung B-die kits are 16GB single rank. (B-die for gamers implies 8GB ranks). Crucial ballistix 16GB IIRC are 16GB single rank, rev B, IIRC. Nice stuff.