Worse Temps with Arctic Liquid Freezer ii 420??

[DeanAg05]

Need some help figuring out what might be going on. This is my first AIO.

Setup was:

Ryzen 3800x

Fractal Define S2 Case

Dark Rock Pro 4 Cooler

2 x Silent Wings 3 High Speed 140mm intake at front of case

1 x Silent Wings 3 High Speed 140mm exhaust at back of case

Top panel was open

Liquid Freezer 420 was top mounted exhausting air through top vent in push (default) config. Left other fans in place.

Previous Prime95 small FFT temp was 84c - 85c but now hitting 89c - 90c. Idle temps are about the same, maybe 1 or 2c lower with arctic.

Didn't have a ton of time to play around with it last night, but definitely not what I was expecting.

Thanks

[freeagent]

Air is still pretty good. I would check your mount and make sure your pasted up properly.

[jaslion]

Well simply put the case has poor airflow. That aio is being chocked by having to really pull all the air in the case upwards and well that means it's also taking the warmth of everything else with it. The dark rock didn't really have that issue with the air being more directed. That and the dark rock pro 4 is almost as capable of a cooler as that liquid freezer. Watercooling isn't magic. It's essentially just another form of aircooling but uses water to transfer heat instead of heatpipes.

 

You can take off the front panel and see what that brings. Or the side panel.

[DeanAg05]

14 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Well simply put the case has poor airflow. That aio is being chocked by having to really pull all the air in the case upwards and well that means it's also taking the warmth of everything else with it. The dark rock didn't really have that issue with the air being more directed. That and the dark rock pro 4 is almost as capable of a cooler as that liquid freezer. Watercooling isn't magic. It's essentially just another form of aircooling but uses water to transfer heat instead of heatpipes.

 

You can take off the front panel and see what that brings. Or the side panel.

I don't think it is magic, but have seen benchmarks that have the 280 version running cooler than high end air, so of course would expect that or better from the 420.

 

Understood about the airflow - would it make sense to run this as an intake then and change other fans in the case to all exhaust?

[jaslion]

1 hour ago, DeanAg05 said:

I don't think it is magic, but have seen benchmarks that have the 280 version running cooler than high end air, so of course would expect that or better from the 420.

 

Understood about the airflow - would it make sense to run this as an intake then and change other fans in the case to all exhaust?

Sure intake but the case is not at all designed for that. Keep in mind it's the same pump as all the others in the series so the bigger you go the slower the water moves hence why the jump isn't that big

[narrdarr]

@jaslion I think your being a bit tough on the case and that aio. 

Is it the best airflow case. No but it should be fine.

The afl2 aio are one of the best aio currently. The only 420 aio that's better is alpha cool. With a way better pump and fully copper. 

 

@DeanAg05

You need to run some tests and check for some issues.

 

Double check mounting and the spread of the paste. Paste spread is more important on these chips as there are multiple dies(ccx's) compared to intel single center die.

 

Check you pumps speed and make sure its at 100% all the time.

 

Try testing will the side panel. This will show if the case is your limiting factor.

 

Fan position 

With a 420 aio in the top. I'd run

Front and rear as intake and top as exhaust

[DeanAg05]

@narrdarr 

I will definitely try that fan layout.  Will double check paste spread, but I would think it's pretty good.  I spread it corner to corner before mount (how I've always done my paste) rather than just doing dots.

 

Mounting this was a little problematic - There is an offset mount for Ryzen 3000 on this cooler that when oriented per the directions, the mounting clip hit motherboard components.  I rotated all aspects of the mount/coldplate 180 degrees and still maintained the offset mounting position.  The 360 rev3/420 seems to mount pretty differently than previous version.

[narrdarr]

Depending on what is hitting. you cut a notch out so it clears. Or... Trying mounting outside the case may make it easier. Or at least lay the system down.

 

You could grab an alpha cool 420 instead. Way better aio unit. But the it has bqsw2 140 fans. Which a solid but not as good as the p14 that are on your current aio.

[DeanAg05]

3 hours ago, narrdarr said:

Depending on what is hitting. you cut a notch out so it clears. Or... Trying mounting outside the case may make it easier. Or at least lay the system down.

 

You could grab an alpha cool 420 instead. Way better aio unit. But the it has bqsw2 140 fans. Which a solid but not as good as the p14 that are on your current aio.

Well, having both side panels and front panel off makes zero difference.  Maybe 1 degree C.  Reaching these temps in a matter of a minute or less and has to back off to 4050 Mhz boost.  Basically the same behavior as with Dark Rock but actually a couple of degrees hotter.

[narrdarr]

51 minutes ago, DeanAg05 said:

Well, having both side panels and front panel off makes zero difference.  Maybe 1 degree C.  Reaching these temps in a matter of a minute or less and has to back off to 4050 Mhz boost.  Basically the same behavior as with Dark Rock but actually a couple of degrees hotter.

 

That tells me either a bad mount or high voltage. Or both.

 

what software are you monitoring with?

Should only use one. And it should be 

Hwinfo

 

Disregard idle voltage it's wack on ryzen chip. What is the voltage under load?

 

Are you using pbo or xmp?

 

Have you done both a bios update and chipset driver update?

[DeanAg05]

13 hours ago, narrdarr said:

 

That tells me either a bad mount or high voltage. Or both.

 

what software are you monitoring with?

Should only use one. And it should be 

Hwinfo

 

Disregard idle voltage it's wack on ryzen chip. What is the voltage under load?

 

Are you using pbo or xmp?

 

Have you done both a bios update and chipset driver update?

Was using Ryzen Master with XMP - 3600Mhz CL16.

 

Figured it out though.  Was the mount.  Not the paste, but the interference meant that rotating the cold plate 180 degrees plus still using the Ryzen 3000 offset point meant that it wasn't making contact with about the 10% of the CPU in the north-south direction.  It was obvious based on the outlines of the paste when removed.  Keeping the 180 degree rotation but using the standard AM4 mount point made full contact and I dropped to about 79 C on the same test, which is about 6 lower than the Dark Rock.

 

That is something folks with this cooler plus a Gigabyte X570 Master should know - you cannot mount the cooler in the intended orientation (VRM fan up towards the top of the case) and use the new offset mounting point for Ryzen 3000/5000 (new for their REV3 version of the other sizes also).  Only the standard AM4 mount point works.  Supposedly being able to utilize the offset point helps concentrate the cooling over the hot point and drop temps further in OCing scenarios.

 

The interference is the top M.2 slot and unfortunately the mounting bracket hits this basically along its entire length when trying to use the offset mount so I think it would be quite difficult to modify the bracket to fit.

[narrdarr]

1 hour ago, DeanAg05 said:

Was using Ryzen Master with XMP - 3600Mhz CL16.

 

Figured it out though.  Was the mount.  Not the paste, but the interference meant that rotating the cold plate 180 degrees plus still using the Ryzen 3000 offset point meant that it wasn't making contact with about the 10% of the CPU in the north-south direction.  It was obvious based on the outlines of the paste when removed.  Keeping the 180 degree rotation but using the standard AM4 mount point made full contact and I dropped to about 79 C on the same test, which is about 6 lower than the Dark Rock.

 

That is something folks with this cooler plus a Gigabyte X570 Master should know - you cannot mount the cooler in the intended orientation (VRM fan up towards the top of the case) and use the new offset mounting point for Ryzen 3000/5000 (new for their REV3 version of the other sizes also).  Only the standard AM4 mount point works.  Supposedly being able to utilize the offset point helps concentrate the cooling over the hot point and drop temps further in OCing scenarios.

 

The interference is the top M.2 slot and unfortunately the mounting bracket hits this basically along its entire length when trying to use the offset mount so I think it would be quite difficult to modify the bracket to fit.

It really doesnt matter what way the block faces as long as it mounts all the way. Mostly it's an aesthetics issue for some.

But glad temps are better. If you voltage is over far over 1.3v you maybe to lower it getting low temps and same preformance

[DeanAg05]

12 minutes ago, narrdarr said:

It really doesnt matter what way the block faces as long as it mounts all the way. Mostly it's an aesthetics issue for some.

But glad temps are better. If you voltage is over far over 1.3v you maybe to lower it getting low temps and same preformance

It only matters on this one to the extent that you want to use the offset mount for Ryzen 3000/5000 that the manufacturer states will improve performance - if you do not mount with VRM fan pointing up the cold plate will not make contact on about 10% of the CPU.  

 

It definitely pulls more than 1.3 volts now for the entire test now.  Previously would start there and throttle back below that mark when it hit 85C or so. 

[ShennyG]

I know this is a necro but I am wondering how you got on with others suggestions? I would also recommend potentially switching out your be quiet fans, they are silent yes, but in terms of cooling performance they are lacking. I have spent a lot on on silent wings, and found that 3 arctic 120 fans (2 intake, 1 exhaust) was better than 7 140 silent wings (3 intake, 4 exhaust). It really did help my cooling performance in a real way.