Need advice on how to optimize lights and camera setup for perfect white background product shooting

[LordNobatko]

Hi guys, I have a couple of questions.

 

We will use the photos mainly for eCommerce and Instagram. The products are accessories for MotoGP bikes, and the majority of them is made from aluminium usually with black anodized finish (mildly reflective). I need some advice on the setup of the lights, and the camera settings to use.

 

Our current setup includes:

Canon EOS 70D + Sigma 30mm 1:1.4 DC

A transparent photo table

Four generic cheap softboxes (used as lights under the table, probably not great)

Two 100W 5600K COB LED lamps (1000W equivalent)

Stands and other random stuff

 

I have already asked about this, and I got some advice. Since then we have bought two new lights(the 100W LEDs mentioned above)

Previous thread:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Anyway, let's get to the point of this post. I have trouble with the white background; I don't know how to make it white enough without completely overexposing the product. I have been told that the lower ISO, the better, I have fiddled with all the settings but there must be something I am doing wrong. I include a link to a Google Disk shared folder; it contains the RAW files from the latest shoot. I am lost here, I don't know what to do, I have considered buying two more lights to make the background brighter, but I have no idea if that would make it better or worse. I am looking forward to your input guys, and I do appreciate it if you have read this whole thing. I have also included one edited picture, it is not great, the right side of it is kinda dark...

 

TL;DR: Need advice on the light and camera setup, check this Google Disk folder for the material RAW files contain camera settings.(I can't attach a single RAW to this post because of size limit; therefore the Google Disk folder)

[tommy2712]

You're gonna have to invest into Photoshop.

I've had worse setup than this and a simple contrast increase can solve the problem for mass editing.

If you just take a few pictures, Photoshop has a tool to easily cut out the products, and then you can turn the background to completely white.

 

Also set your White Balance on the camera to one setting, preferably indoor light, don't put it on Auto White Balance.

[Action_Johnson]

<<Commerical photog with 15 years industry experience here.

 

If you want perfectly clean on-white images, best is to shoot the product on gray or suspended with clamps/arms/prongs/on-plexi/whatever (so the surface doesn't reflect as much light or color into the product), make a custom white balance to neutralize color and nail your highlights and shadows using a gray card like an X-Rite Colorchecker. Then in post do a clipping path in photoshop and knock it out. Drop a shadow of whatever shape/size is appropriate, and that will let you save the image on any color or shade of surface, be it white, red, even transparent so it can be comp'd onto graphics for ads.

 

The way you're shooting the product is fine, you don't have any real lighting control with those ebay tents, but at minimum it'll give you a clean enough starting point where knockouts and dropshadows are a reasonable next step.

 

I also suggest outsourcing that post-work. It's extremely time-consuming and there are many outlets online who can turnaround hundreds of products within a day or two for cents per image. That's what the big agencies do...

[LordNobatko]

@tommy2712 We have got a Photoshop licence; I am not good at it, I am trying to get better, and I believe that I will eventually get there. But for now the edited image in the Google disk folder is the best I can do.

 

@Action_Johnson I will try the dropdown shadows, as it will probably look more natural than just a simple cropped image. Do you think it would be worth getting better lights to under light the table? Would a softbox above the product help? I am looking for your input on this. My goal is to make it as easy to edit as possible, so the lighter the background is, the easier to crop it is. Any input on the camera settings would be welcome, almost all the pictures in the google disk folder are shot with these settings 1/60 f/11 ISO160

[LordNobatko]

So today I have edited some of the pictures. I am still not fully satisfied with the outcome. I feel like the details are fading and the graining is getting worse, I have tried to combat that but with no luck. The colour seems off as well... I am looking forward to your input.

[Distinctly Average]

26 minutes ago, LordNobatko said:

So today I have edited some of the pictures. I am still not fully satisfied with the outcome. I feel like the details are fading and the graining is getting worse, I have tried to combat that but with no luck. The colour seems off as well... I am looking forward to your input.

 

 

 

 

Try watching this video 

 

 

[Action_Johnson]

Karl Taylor's awsome, totally OG. 

 

For equipment, what you're using should be just fine. Honestly you don't need high end stuff to do this.

Camera should be locked down on a tripod, ISO 100, 1/200th, f/5.6 or f/8, f/11 at max.

You might need to back the camera out a few feet to get more depth of field, and get the whole product in focus.

Don't stop down to f/16 or f/22, diffraction will just make the whole image softer, f/11 will be about as tight as you can go without obvious softness.

 

If you're using continuous lights, make sure you turn off all other inside lights, like overhead fluorescents. This is to control color temps and spill that might be happening. That will help make colors and tones look more uniform. If you're using strobes, they should be bright enough to overpower the ambient light. Either way whatever type of light you use, for this specific case, shouldn't matter all that much so long as you have control. 

 

Also, when you do your drop shadows, you need to make sure they're making sense. The drop shadows need to closely match the real shadow from the photo. You can even paint the old shadow back in if you want more realism. 

 

Are you shooting these objects from overheat, or propped up? If they're propped up, that shadow should be below the product, not directly behind it like a halo. If it's overhead, make sure the shadow is going in a singular direction. A drop shadow directly behind the subject, giving it a halo, is like what you get out of a ringlight, but the light on the subject doesn't match that, so that's why it doesn't make sense and looks off. 

 

Highlights on the product make it look like these are mostly lit from above, so your shadows should be following that same direction and falling below the subject. 

 

Again, you can use something like Fiverr to outsource this kind of stuff. otherwise it's kind of a major time suck. 

[LordNobatko]

@Action_Johnson 

Quote

Again, you can use something like Fiverr to outsource this kind of stuff. otherwise it's kind of a major time suck. 

This is not the way, I want to learn how to do this propertely, outsourcing is great but not for me in this specific case as I will do plenty of photography and editing anyway.

 

I will try to work on the shadows, you are totaly right, they look off, the main purpose of them was to make the product pop out on the white background and make it look more natural.

 

16 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

Try watching this video 

I have watched it and it provided useful advice. Thanks for the tip

[For Science!]

This is totally subjective non-expert feedback, but as an average-joe, the pictures with the gray outline really hurts my eyes. It gives me the impression that I have not focused correctly and my eyes are constantly trying to "focus on the image" 

[LordNobatko]

@For Science!Hi, thanks for the input and sorry for the late answer, I did end up removing the shadow halo completely, you are totaly right it looks much better and cleaner. When I first added the halo shading there, it looked good (but I must note that I saw it at work on a pretty good monitor). When I checked the photos from home on my ordinary laptop the edges of the product were really blurry. Thanks for the tip!

[Roswell]

This is simple and others are over complicating it.

 

• Shoot your images in a raw format with a sane amount of lighting (those examples above are reflecting way too much).
• Open said images in Photoshop, magic wand or whatever other selection technique you want, use the refine selection tool and cut the subject.
• Drop the subject layer on top of a contrasting color layer like red or green and feather the edges. You’re working with black and white so this will be extremely easy.
• Adjust levels, contrast, whatever and save it with a transparent background for flexibility in future placement.

 

Simple. Selection in Photoshop is super easy and among the first things you should learn. Watch a YouTube tutorial and you’ll get the hang of it in 20 minutes.

[LordNobatko]

@Vitamanic This is the latest iterarion of the photos, I think that I am getting pretty close to the result I want to achieve. What do you say?  

[Roswell]

2 hours ago, LordNobatko said:

@Vitamanic This is the latest iterarion of the photos, I think that I am getting pretty close to the result I want to achieve. What do you say?  

Those look great! Edges look super clean and the contrast/brightness is right where you want it. Good work!

[kaixax555]

I think it looks great now, lighting seems to be spot on to me. 

[Distinctly Average]

On 12/22/2020 at 3:22 AM, Vitamanic said:

This is simple and others are over complicating it.

 

• Shoot your images in a raw format with a sane amount of lighting (those examples above are reflecting way too much).
• Open said images in Photoshop, magic wand or whatever other selection technique you want, use the refine selection tool and cut the subject.
• Drop the subject layer on top of a contrasting color layer like red or green and feather the edges. You’re working with black and white so this will be extremely easy.
• Adjust levels, contrast, whatever and save it with a transparent background for flexibility in future placement.

 

Simple. Selection in Photoshop is super easy and among the first things you should learn. Watch a YouTube tutorial and you’ll get the hang of it in 20 minutes.

Not really over complicating it. A lot depends on how often you are shooting products. For someone just doing the odd shot or two then fine, PS is good. However, when product photography becomes a regular thing or part of your income then you need to optimise your workflow. If you are shooting lots of products, often from different angles you really want to get as much right in camera as possible. You want consistency so you can batch process those hundreds of shots. Spending just 10 minutes per shot can add up to a lot of time if you need to do selections and cleanup. I’ve been there, done that and learnt a lot from my own failures and successes. Once you get the lighting right, it is easy to repeat in the future so you can just setup and go.

[Roswell]

7 hours ago, Distinctly Average said:

Not really over complicating it. A lot depends on how often you are shooting products. For someone just doing the odd shot or two then fine, PS is good. However, when product photography becomes a regular thing or part of your income then you need to optimise your workflow. If you are shooting lots of products, often from different angles you really want to get as much right in camera as possible. You want consistency so you can batch process those hundreds of shots. Spending just 10 minutes per shot can add up to a lot of time if you need to do selections and cleanup. I’ve been there, done that and learnt a lot from my own failures and successes. Once you get the lighting right, it is easy to repeat in the future so you can just setup and go.

If you’re not cutting product shots out and delivering them with transparency, you’re not doing it right. That’s super lazy.

 

It also doesn’t take 10 minutes. Maybe 2 minutes tops for a decent selection and basic color correction.

[Matttis]

The newer versions of photoshop have a tool that automatically selects your subject so you can cut it out and put it on a white background:

 

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/how-to/select-subject-one-click.html

 

Though personally I prefer working with a softbox and some off-camera flashes. This is the kind of look I like to get right as I take the shot so I only have to edit minor thing like contrast and colors in post

[Distinctly Average]

21 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

If you’re not cutting product shots out and delivering them with transparency, you’re not doing it right. That’s super lazy.

 

It also doesn’t take 10 minutes. Maybe 2 minutes tops for a decent selection and basic color correction.

That really depends on the customer and what they want. I used to do stuff for a catalogue shop, they had very specific requirements and none involved transparency. Advertising, covers etc, the background is often a big part of it. 
 

As for cutting out, that really depends on both the subject and on how good you need the mask to be. So it can take a couple of minutes, but it can also take a lot longer. When you are doing 100+ products for an online shop, you really want to minimise PP as much as possible. When you get the products lit well, and have the background lit in a way that a couple of slider tweaks are all that are needed, you can batch process a bunch of images well enough for the online shop with ease. When you have done it, you soon realise where your time is best placed in the workflow. 

[Matttis]

Yeah when it comes to product photography getting the lighting right can really make a difference, especially when it comes to processing a lot of images.